Blue Mage vs. Level Sync

I find it interesting that people who hated my idea of doing away with lvl sync in favor of just lowering damage output are actually proposing that we make BLU a playable class for the level sync system.

The whole point of Blue Mage is to learn to copy the abilities of the other monsters. This 100% goes against anything that could be done in the level sync system- what abilities would you allow? What abilities would you remove? What abilities would you require?

"We're sorry- your Blue Mage doesn't possess any of the low level abilities required for queuing for this duty."

Seriously? How would that even work? The main argument against my proposal for toning down abilities to allow access to the full talent tree was that none of the dungeons were designed for abilities in the entire talent tree. Thus, there's no possible way that "learned" actions could possibly be allowed by the group finder level sync system.

It's one or the other, people.... not both. The Blue Mage would have to have all of their abilities pre-determined and set by the leveling system in a structured manner so that none of their abilities provide them any advantage over any other job at any given level. For any other class, that's fine, but this is Blue Mage! Their very nature goes against that 100%.

actually, the way id fix that issue is not by restricting the spells through lvl but the number of available spell slots when you lvl sync, since you already have ilvl caps in place capping your upper end gear can add and potency is potency across all classes

now a second sort of check you could do as well is a general "do you have at least one x type spell" check like at level 15 do you have at least one single target, buff, cone, and aoe spell in your active slots? (the most direct way is to restrict a couple slots to specific spell types like slot 1 only accepts single target spells, you still get an incredibly customizable spellbook but you would "cover your basics" so to speak this way)

Easily solved. Every skill has a 'Learned at level' tag on it for regular Jobs. That tag for BLU need only refer to the earliest possible level that skill can be found and learned. Synced below 50? No Shiva ice bow attack. etc etc.

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Originally Posted by Sylve

Easily solved. Every skill has a 'Learned at level' tag on it for regular Jobs. That tag for BLU need only refer to the earliest possible level that skill can be found and learned. Synced below 50? No Shiva ice bow attack. etc etc.

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So how will you force Blue Mages to learn an appropriate number of low lever abilities just so that they can have all of their high level abilities nixed when doing a queue. Because right now, there is absolutely nothing governing that. You'd have to force Blue Mages to learn a specific set of "core" abilities just so that they could be level synced. So yes, you'd have to change the very thing that makes them special. You'd have to give them mandatory abilities and force them to learn them. (like every other job in the game)

hence my setup, lets say spell slot 3 out of your 24 available requires a cone spell to be put in it, that cone could be
aqualung
flamethrower
bad breath
magnetite cloud
awful eye
jettatura
filamented hold
hecatomb wave
several others depending on what they actually put in

but any of your free slots could have a cone spell as well, its a system that borrows heavily from the way role actions work (which i have the feeling is what they were pulling from to make that ui thing anyway)

given the basic spell types every other class tends to have this means out of 24 spells you have 5-7 slotted towards your basics to do df/endgame, and any abilities you have beyond that increases your versatility

Not sure if this is directed at one of mine or others but I\'d explain my expectation of letting Blue into duty finder as:

There are a set of highlighted skills on the book that you can use in duty finder, these are the balanced for end game skills. They go in order like other jobs in terms of levels, and you must know the skill related to the level of content you\'re going into. So if there are 24 skills on a level 70 black mage a level 70 blue mage book would have exactly 24 highlighted skills, all divided across the level spectrum such that they sync around as you\'d expect with a Blue Mage.

Meanwhile for non-duty finder content how the sync works.. no freaking clue lol.

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The Blue Mage would have to have all of their abilities pre-determined and set by the leveling system in a structured manner so that none of their abilities provide them any advantage over any other job at any given level. For any other class, that\'s fine, but this is Blue Mage! Their very nature goes against that 100%u0025.

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Their nature is to learn monster spells, there is no "customization load out nature" beyond FFXI. In the FF series all jobs had a hilarious amount of skills, and Blues were focused on monsters. If the nature of loads of skills as options is Blue Mage then it is for all FF jobs...

Not that I\'m against blue mage being allowed in duty finder and having customization, but I think that is far more difficult to balance and I\'d rather just see Blue Mage just work #bethesda (:3). Besides you still have non-duty finder content to be a wild customize-able blue mage doing whatever, which is more than other jobs can say.

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Originally Posted by Nabril

So how will you force Blue Mages to learn an appropriate number of low lever abilities just so that they can have all of their high level abilities nixed when doing a queue. Because right now, there is absolutely nothing governing that. You'd have to force Blue Mages to learn a specific set of "core" abilities just so that they could be level synced. So yes, you'd have to change the very thing that makes them special. You'd have to give them mandatory abilities and force them to learn them. (like every other job in the game)

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You what? You haven't looked into BLU at all have you. Blue Mages can't queue. Why? Because that would be a form of Russian roulette for the party the BLU might fall into getting a BLU that has skills vs one that's got no skills.

BLU is barred from Matchmaking precisely because they can't force BLUs to learn skills without breaking what it means to be a BLU.

You can form a premade party for dungeons, But why would any BLU with no interest learning skills do that? They get bonus exp from open world mobs to make up for not getting roulette exp. But you'd have known that if you bothered to do any kind mild reading on the information we have for BLU.

I already answered what might happen when level syncing, And your counter is to display your lack of knowledge of the jobs mechanics and proclaim "But what if idiots try to run the dungeon?!"

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Originally Posted by Nabril

I find it interesting that people who hated my idea of doing away with lvl sync in favor of just lowering damage output are actually proposing that we make BLU a playable class for the level sync system.

The whole point of Blue Mage is to learn to copy the abilities of the other monsters. This 100% goes against anything that could be done in the level sync system- what abilities would you allow? What abilities would you remove? What abilities would you require?

"We're sorry- your Blue Mage doesn't possess any of the low level abilities required for queuing for this duty."

Seriously? How would that even work? The main argument against my proposal for toning down abilities to allow access to the full talent tree was that none of the dungeons were designed for abilities in the entire talent tree. Thus, there's no possible way that "learned" actions could possibly be allowed by the group finder level sync system.

It's one or the other, people.... not both. The Blue Mage would have to have all of their abilities pre-determined and set by the leveling system in a structured manner so that none of their abilities provide them any advantage over any other job at any given level. For any other class, that's fine, but this is Blue Mage! Their very nature goes against that 100%.

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I don't know, man, as a Blue Mage with telepathy I just want to see the Primals past and see what created them. Dungeons are just icing on the cake.

Alternatively just make it work like Role Actions, where if you get level sync'd you only get access to the first Role Actions you have equipped. I'd be surprised if you don't unlock additional blue magic equip slots as you level anyway.

The only ways I could see Blue Mage being let into the Duty Finder is either getting rid of the whole learning mechanic and just making it a generic caster DPS. Or having a checklist of skills you need to have learned and equipped for each dungeons which would remove customization from the class in exchange for making sure they actually can contribute to fights.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

The only ways I could see Blue Mage being let into the Duty Finder is either getting rid of the whole learning mechanic and just making it a generic caster DPS. Or having a checklist of skills you need to have learned and equipped for each dungeons which would remove customization from the class in exchange for making sure they actually can contribute to fights.

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No need to get so fancy. Nothing in Duty Finder prevents a WAR from joining who is missing all of their quested job abilities. When one joins, you kick them, problem solved. The same works just as well for a BLU that hasn't bothered to learn their spells - in fact, it's not even as serious a problem, because it's much easier to replace a DPS than a tank! Yoshi P's ridiculous fear of "Russian Roulette" BLUs in duty finder is exactly that - ridiculous.

And, yeah, by assigning levels to spells, designating what level you have to be to use those spells, the problem of level sync is solved, and also allows BLU's power to ramp up as they reach higher levels, just like other jobs do. But what if they don't have those low-level spells equipped when they enter the instance? Let them change spells outside of combat, just like we used to do with Role Actions.

Or, you know, remove the ridiculous "spell setting" system entirely, and reduce Blue Mage's roster of Blue Magic to a reasonable number. Outside of Final Fantasy XI, no Blue Mage in Final Fantasy has had more than thirty spells, and most only have twenty to twenty-four. We shouldn't NEED to set them; they should all be available all at once. Give BLU a dozen spells at level 50, and add four more with each level cap increase (so sixteen at 60, twenty at 70, twenty-four at 80, and so on). Pretty sure the devs had FFXI too much on the brain when they put together this trainwreck. FFXI's BLU does not work in this game - but that doesn't mean that BLU can't work in this game.