Pagos is still beyond unreasonable

Can be viewed as just a complaint post, but I'm using it as a general discussion point for all aspects of Pagos, not just getting the weapon and levelling.

Of course, getting the weapon and levelling are still both chores that take a good fuckin' while, with there being few really "good" early-level methods that aren't just doing wolves (which are both often occupied by other players and is variable based on people doing Happy Bunnies). Getting into any high-level area for its Notorious Monsters is stupidly difficult because of how many dangerous enemies are on the hill and how the Aetherytes aren't accessible until so far into the levelling process anyway, which basically limits low levels (pretty much anything below Level 30) to anything up to Hakutaku and maybe King Igloo, south Happy Bunnies give almost no experience points, and chaining is obviously straight-up not fun and is difficult to do when a lot of people don't want to do it for the very reason that it's not fun. Light's about as bad.

Leveling and the light grind are both pretty bad themselves, but the ugly head of Pagos only starts to rear its little head when you start getting into the deeper aspects of it, such as the Eureka Effect items. Starting with Hakutaku, the issue with even having the opportunity to get the Optical Hat is related to Happy Bunnies being garbage with giving golds (discussed later), and how difficult it is to get the Eyes or even buy them. The concept of getting gold only from that special item is itself pretty neat, but it basically feels impossible to attain. Not really sure on the Speed Belt's chances at dropping, but it's fairly lenient in that it's just a Notorious Monster drop with no bullshit attached that's even right beside an Aetheryte. As for Cassie, I've literally only seen her once, even after doing Pagos since it launched and basically never stopping, and the fact that the Cassie Earrings don't even consistently drop from her is stupid, and all of the Eureka Effect items generally suffer from how they feel as if they take so much effort to get for so little real gain.

It's also unbelievably difficult to get anything from Lockboxes, though. Pagos Lockboxes feel straight-up worthless when I open hundreds in one sitting and only get Materia and Potion of Harmony materials, and Cold-warped Lockboxes feel just the same - literal hours of farming Anubys and still haven't gotten the emote nor Wind-up Tarutaru, with approximations coming out to about a ridiculous .2% chance on the former.

Happy Bunnies are just about as hellish, though. It's much the same as Anubys - you can spend hours of effort for about nothing. Part of the issue is the scaling on the enemies to the scaling of the players in the instance when the people who want to do Happy Bunnies is only a small fraction of how many people are actually in the instance. When there is roughly a full instance, they take so bloody long to a point of feeling like a lot of effort for probably a singular Materia V. But even in a dead instance where the Happy Bunnies die fairly fast (in which I've been in multiple), the rate of Gold Coffers and how the only valuable items are in them just leads to feeling like you're accomplishing nothing. I've been doing Happy Bunnies as much as possible since Patch 4.45, and even after a month of doing a ton of Elemental Conflicts, I only saw my first Gold Chest today - for just an Earthen Hakutaku Eye. Does that mean that I have to do that garbage - again, basically a month of grinding for hours on end - three more times just so that I can get an Optical Hat, and another time so that I can get the Copycat Bulb?

The problem with Pagos is that nothing actually feels like it's designed for a human being to play. It's hours upon hours of mindless, tedious grind without any sense of progress or even a sliver of a hope at actually attaining anything. I said it before, but it genuinely should not be possible to feel like you can go for hours upon hours and basically accomplish nothing. It feels like it's easier to go through Savage and even do bloody Ultimate than it is to actually get anything done in Pagos, and for what's supposed to be fairly casual and laid-back content, I can't fathom how that makes any sense from a design perspective. I've literally went into Pyros and gotten everything there (a weapon, a few rerolls, Triple Triad card, both minions, mount, hairstyle, and emote) in what felt like a fairly reasonable amount of time for how much I was playing it, yet I still first left Pagos having attained neither minion, no emote, neither Triple Triad card (only obtaining Yukinko Card much later and the Louhi Card from the new NPC), all in what was generally a much more vapid yet simultaneously frustrating experience. And now, having grinded it out extensively for a good while now, I still basically have nothing from Pagos.

This post is as much a call for nerfs as much as it's a call for help.

Pagos as a whole was/is imo some of the worst content this game has seen and was clearly meant to be filler content. There's a reason they nerfed it at least twice before it was outdated and will probably nerf it again at some point. I can't really say the relic grind was hard, but it was tedious. Navigating the map was also pretty terrible. And the whole treasure bunny thing...it was obviously improved in Pyros, but they need a rework in both instances imo. Too random. Way too random. Just like any of the good drops in Pagos and Pyros from lockboxes or bunny treasure chests. There's too many layers of RNG on top of too many layers of RNG to even consider either place actually fun or enjoyable. Pyros is just more tolerable.

I've been in Pagos for two weeks now, one pre-nerf patch, one post nerf. Post-nerf is leagues better, but the real bottleneck now is getting light for frosted crystals. Granted, I basically got 2/3 of the light I needed for one weapon leveling up. These past few days have been nothing but boredom farming mobs for light. I'm just sick of it. I can't understand why (outside of NMs) its so difficult to earn, plus its seemingly RNG based, adding only to the frustration. I just want to leave Pagos already yet I can't because I don't have my weapons done yet. I would gladly take all the Pagos Crystals I got and start forging them into frosted crystals. You get so many now that getting Louhi spheres is an afterthought to a point where Louhi doesn't get prepped much anymore.

I'm back in Pagos completing my third relic, I did the first two prenerf as well. The biggest hurdle Pagos has right now is light. I understand that it was buffed (around 4.4) for better light gains, but that only applies to the NM's. I think we need to see either a reduced amount of crystals needed for the weapon or increase on light gained through mobs.

Right now the main options you have are Dragon farming in the center, forge parties(Haven't tried this method yet myself) or Anubys farming. Dragons are good if you just want light but they're still fickle on giving it. Anubys do mutate a lot but the amount of light gained is pathetic compared to others, it's more so for the assured light and bonus CWLB if you get it.

If we're gonna see any final nerf to Pagos I bet it will be at 4.7 as Pyros is extremely smooth to get your weapon and Hydatos will hopefully get the same beats as it prior. Just doesn't make sense to have a fast first map, a slow second, and then speed back up for the third.

Pagos is no where near unreasonable now. My friend sky rocketed to 35 in one week just by doing the NM train and the challenge log. I started and finished my sch relic in that time as well. You may as well call pagos the new anemos. As for light farming theres very little reason to actually light farm. The NM's trump all light farming options so its really just something to do in downtime.

Why would you bump this thread? It's from before the nerfs. Both the OPs point and your point are correct.

Do yerself a favour & don't give a shit 'bout Ewwreka. Its' top weapon is still lacking compared to Omega wep imo. I've seen some of those "pyros wep" stats and I instantly decided to cba for that sh!t. Getting a single wep takes too much time making it useless.

Tbh I liked the Zeta (had 2) & Anima (had 6) weps questlines cuz every step was different.. on Eureka every fuckin' step is the same.. and in horrible, tedious & boresome area.

Terrible game design is terrible game design, news at 11.

I just spent the last few weeks leveling up through pagos and pyros. I completed two relics throughout my time in both and it's been a slow and sometimes tedious grind but it's not unreachable and certainly obtainable.

I'm also only just recently finishing my second weapon, progressing at a rate of roughly 4 frosteds per 2.5-3 hours of NM contribution, having not started until the 4.5 Eureka changes. As such, for the 62+ light meters I have filled, I have earned 2,600 of the big crystals to date, plus Louhi spawns often enough that I haven't needed to exchange for ice yet.

My suggestion I've been meaning to post here for a while is simply to add a crystal exchange to Pagos, which is arguably the one thing that made Anemos progression work so well. Just say we can smash a sphere of ice (= 50 crystals) over the forge for one frosted crystal and everything will even out perfectly. Have it be more ice/crystals per one frosted if that sounds too easy. That's all I'm asking. You'll fix the problems with light accumulating too slowly and the recent crystal change causing us to have way too many at the same time.

...Thus giving people like me more time to spare on the true Pagos endgame, which as we all know is bunny treasure runs for gold chests.

Imo they would also need to add crystals from all the eureka zones to the challenge log. Otherwise more or less dead content come 5.0 leaving only diehards

Eureka as a whole is just problematic in design. It is something that requires a large amount of players to function properly. Without a group, progress is pretty much impossible to begin with and it is not supported by traditional matchmaking. Every new area further divides the players and makes it harder to progress since special monster spawns rely on large numbers of players.

I'd rather have the poetic/light grind of Heavensward or even having to run Deep Dungeons endlessly in the future than anything like Eureka. I've pretty much did a few Anemos and then quit trying when Pagos came out.

I don't see why people are complaining about leveling/advancing in Eureka? I have very limited gaming time and only like 2 people that I play FF with. I am currently level 54 in Hydatos and I have my Pyros weapon for my RDM. It's really simple, I have never seen someone not get an invite when they shout for one when an NM pops.

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Originally Posted by Gaj85

I don't see why people are complaining about leveling/advancing in Eureka? I have very limited gaming time and only like 2 people that I play FF with. I am currently level 54 in Hydatos and I have my Pyros weapon for my RDM. It's really simple, I have never seen someone not get an invite when they shout for one when an NM pops.

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It's long, tedious, and boring. Unlike the HW relics, your only option is to grind mobs endlessly in various regions of Eureka. These are mobs that take forever to solo and all it takes is a single high level player running up and down the area to one shot your mob to render all your effort meaningless and ruin your chain. There's literally nothing else that you can do for progression. HW's relics utilized the light system and tomestones as its main form of progress, which opened it up to significantly more methods of completion. It was possible to jump between numerous trials and even PvP to complete your relic. This is what separates it from the monotony that is SB's relic grind. SB's is just monotonous and boring. ARR's relics might be a lot harder to complete, but even I feel progression through those frustrating steps are still more enjoyable than Eureka as a whole because there's at least a bit of variety there.

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Originally Posted by Blanchimont

It's long, tedious, and boring. Unlike the HW relics, your only option is to grind mobs endlessly in various regions of Eureka. These are mobs that take forever to solo and all it takes is a single high level player running up and down the area to one shot your mob to render all your effort meaningless and ruin your chain. There's literally nothing else that you can do for progression. HW's relics utilized the light system and tomestones as its main form of progress, which opened it up to significantly more methods of completion. It was possible to jump between numerous trials and even PvP to complete your relic. This is what separates it from the monotony that is SB's relic grind. SB's is just monotonous and boring. ARR's relics might be a lot harder to complete, but even I feel progression through those frustrating steps are still more enjoyable than Eureka as a whole because there's at least a bit of variety there.

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But a lot of people do enjoy the SB relic stuff. I find it much more enjoyable than they HW relic. I guess to each their own but none of it is mandatory.

even taking it down to 20 light would be nice in pagos. but for real if they just added logograms it would make it kind of better

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Originally Posted by Gaj85

But a lot of people do enjoy the SB relic stuff. I find it much more enjoyable than they HW relic. I guess to each their own but none of it is mandatory.

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The recent chart data showed that only 11% of the players in NA that ever made it into Eureka actually made it to Pyros and that means even fewer of those actually made it to the end of Hydatos (or whatever it is called, I'm not sure on the name). It's actually the only non-capped end game weapon at the moment, which doesn't really give much else in terms of options available. But, in terms of player engagement this is about double the number of players who actually clear Savage content. Considering that this is meant to be the end all content of SB, that is not a good sign. You literally have Savage numbers for what should have been casual content and that means that there was very little that players actually got out of it and that time could have been better used elsewhere.

The reason why SB's relic is so problematic is because of how much it is tied into Eureka. There's no other way to obtain it other than the monotonous Eureka grind. There's no variety in terms of what you can do for end game and it is even harder to get people into the middle zones because of it.

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Originally Posted by Glaceon10

Leveling and the light grind are both pretty bad themselves, but the ugly head of Pagos only starts to rear its little head when you start getting into the deeper aspects of it, such as the Eureka Effect items. Starting with Hakutaku, the issue with even having the opportunity to get the Optical Hat is related to Happy Bunnies being garbage with giving golds (discussed later), and how difficult it is to get the Eyes or even buy them.

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These items are very difficult to get. The good part about this is that you in no way need these items, it does not affect your ability to obtain the weapons and gear.

Farming light in a party should be better than farming light solo. Its soooooooooo much slower to farm light in a party that you're better off afking between nm's. If party light was equivalent to the limited solo light camps then Pagos would not be so bad.

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everything I said is wrong. Soloing 36 mobs is amazing light. Gentles. Brights. Brilliants. and doing small party light farms is really strong too. Pagos is fine.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

Farming light in a party should be better than farming light solo. Its soooooooooo much slower to farm light in a party that you're better off afking between nm's. If party light was equivalent to the limited solo light camps then Pagos would not be so bad.

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Forge and Dragon light farms are good light, not sure why you think that is slow. Just hitting NM's is a really slow way to get light. Get in forge group, kill high level NM's maybe if everyone is up for it but usually you won't because chaining at forge is better light.

Keep in mind they still aren't finished with eureka nerfs yet. If they ever make eureka fragments obtainable outside of BA then all of the content will probably be soloable since having full sets of ele bonus gear lets you solo enemies much higher level than yourself and take little damage even from NMs.

Thinking it will be hard to progress in the future when the content is mostly dead is just theoretical since they are able to nerf it in patches as much as they want. Relic type content is meant to be a bit of a rough grind when it's current; it's not to everyone's tastes.

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Originally Posted by Crux

Forge and Dragon light farms are good light, not sure why you think that is slow. Just hitting NM's is a really slow way to get light. Get in forge group, kill high level NM's maybe if everyone is up for it but usually you won't because chaining at forge is better light.

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This is actually not true. I've been testing a LOT of light methods over the last couple days and I can without a doubt say that dragons are designed to not be good light. They give less light than other mobs of equivilent level and actually they give less light than level 36 mobs. (if you're soloing. if you party against level 36's they are the same) To be perfectly clear on this. Dragons are the only mob that is higher level than the player that still gives feeble light when soloing. The /only/ one. They are intentionally meant to be bad sources of light.

I would like to say that after all my testing I think Pagos light is actually perfectly fine. You can finish a weapon in 2 lockouts if you're doing a good method. A good method is dependent on amount of party members and in some cases job make up, but I'm breezing through frosted proteans now and think thats pagos light is actually in a good place, people are just not doing the right methods.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

This is actually not true. I've been testing a LOT of light methods over the last couple days and I can without a doubt say that dragons are designed to not be good light. They give less light than other mobs of equivilent level and actually they give less light than level 36 mobs. (if you're soloing. if you party against level 36's they are the same) To be perfectly clear on this. Dragons are the only mob that is higher level than the player that still gives feeble light when soloing. The /only/ one. They are intentionally meant to be bad sources of light.

I would like to say that after all my testing I think Pagos light is actually perfectly fine. You can finish a weapon in 2 lockouts if you're doing a good method. A good method is dependent on amount of party members and in some cases job make up, but I'm breezing through frosted proteans now and think thats pagos light is actually in a good place, people are just not doing the right methods.

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What would you recommend for light gathering for solo and for parties?

in my experience the best light is duoing. When my duo partner isn't on I solo kill mobs one level higher than me. I finished 4 weapons in 2 days doing this.

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Originally Posted by Zolvolt

in my experience the best light is duoing. When my duo partner isn't on I solo kill mobs one level higher than me. I finished 4 weapons in 2 days doing this.

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Good to know, tried the dragon method and it did seem to be just giving me feeble light. Will try this method as I would like more than one weapon.