Look I get it, they are in the game because someone thought they were a good idea. Leveling a BtN or any gatherer really becomes a damn chore with these things, show up at designated time get some, then either wait 12 minutes or go do another one. As much as I enjoy BTN in this game this is the one thing that i've sort of looked at and been like "Wow this is really fucking obnoxious. Why would anyone think this is a good idea?" I've never seen this in a game before aside from the system that Arch Age had and people hated that system, so i'm guessing a lot of people hate timed nodes. Can we just remove the restriction or something?
Can we talk about timed nodes?
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12-08-2018, 07:37 PMVitallianCan we talk about timed nodes?
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12-09-2018, 02:25 AMDrWho2010
it's to create artificial scarcity to build up an economy for said items.
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12-09-2018, 04:24 AMDhaidCant think of any other possible reason..Quote:
Originally Posted by DrWho2010
Gotta say that the whole idea of mindlessly sitting around waiting for a node to spawn isnt fun or interesting. Couldnt we have some other way to keep scarcity while also ensuring I dont have to wait an hour for a single darksteel ore i need? -
12-09-2018, 05:20 AMElamys
Go do something else? Gather from other timed nodes to save time in the future? I get that it's a little annoying when you want your stuff RIGHT NOW but it's not as if the game is forcing you to sit in front of the node twiddling your thumbs. Set an alarm and go gather somewhere else, or craft, or even just walk away from the game for a bit. I haven't really heard anyone complain about the concept of the timed nodes, beyond when it would despawn even if you had the menu open, the presence of enemies nearby which is negated by stealth, or a notable problem a friend of mine had in HW where her load times were so long on PS3 she had to "leave" to get a node like 5 minutes early to be certain to get it - a problem that was resolved by making nodes last longer and also by removing PS3 support.
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12-09-2018, 06:16 AMDhaid
Not saying it doesnt work, but it could be so much better. Which would you prefer, doing something for 5 minutes or be stuck watching youtube for 15 minutes as you wait for the last material you need for your airship?
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12-09-2018, 06:17 AMCaitlinzulu
With all the different nodes we need to gather there isnt that much thumb twiddling. And whatever lirttle time we have left can easily be filled with some material crafting. So i dont see a problem with it.
I once sat on the platium node when it was just introduced to learn the spawning time on the other hand so guess i am patient. -
12-09-2018, 07:22 AMVitallian
First i'd like to thank you for the responses.
The concept of "making things more scare" is a farce and you know it's a farce. As for going around and doing other nodes, yeah that might work if I knew when and where they spawned...which I don't. Regardless of the positioning or concept of how you want to look at this, it is nothing more than a time sink...one of the second worse implemented ones I have seen Arch Age being the worst. It's also not just about going and popping from node to node and grabbing stuff for an additional class, as you're still going to be waiting that exact.same.amount.of.time every time. it's not a sort of way to do this and the fact that people have let this go on for so long baffles me.
You have to look at something and what it's worth, if the amount of time taken to get something does is not less than or equal to the effort needed to get it, it's basically wasteful. In other words, if someone has to go and watch something, and gets little to nothing for it then they probably will not keep doing it. Supply and Demand is a great concept..when it works, except going to a node and maybe getting like...a handful of things (prior to what 60?) does not equate to making more or the ability to make something useful especially where a "timeframe" is considered.
I'm not sure why this idea was implemented in the most minute concept. I also understand that a lot of the people in the community ESPECIALLY here on the forums get assmad over the slightest suggestion of changing anything, even if it is for the better. Removing timed nodes would be for the better, and it would also STABILIZE the markets since more people have access to those materials. -
12-09-2018, 07:26 AMKirika-Garland BellQuote:
Originally Posted by Vitallian
www.garlandtools.org/bell
Your welcome. -
12-09-2018, 07:36 AMVitallianNot going to lie, i'll end up forgetting about this in the next 10 minutes. The rest of my points still stand regardless of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirika-
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12-09-2018, 09:46 AMElamysThe fact that you'll forget that website exists (there's another one, http://www.ffxivclock.com/ which I prefer over garland tools as I think it's easier) or when certain things spawn doesn't mean the system in itself is broken. You can even set alarms in game now. Outside of 4 items of questionable significance from ARR timed nodes, everything is there at the same time, in the same slot, in the same place. Even when I was brand new to gathering it didn't take long to figure out that Gold Ore was always going to be up at 9AM Eorzean in that tunnel in Thanalan in slot 6.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitallian
If SE changed timed nodes to be present all the time, then recipes would simply be changed to require more of that material. Yes, it's a time gate. We all know that. All MMOs are stuffed full of time gates. And yet the timed node has never felt punishing to me. Only the most active of crafters and those with the most ambitious projects will ever feel themselves excessively gated by it. I feel that for a crafting session the average amount of times I have to visit a node is two times. That's about one hour of time for HW and SB. For ARR nodes which still only spawn once an hour, the amount I can get from a single pop is so high at max level that I only need to go once and will probably still have extras. In the meantime I was gathering everything else I needed for that project, or producing the lower level materials. And since I gather those materials also in my down time so that I'm prepared in advance I don't always need to wait for the nodes. This preparation will pay off a lot if you intend to be serious about crafting and gathering, and it doesn't just apply to timed nodes. If I'm waiting in queue one of the best things I can do for myself is to gather materials from nodes and mobs to use later.
My defending the timed nodes isn't a knee jerk reaction of "don't change anything about my precious game." FFXIV has one of the most complex and layered crafting and gathering systems in MMOs today and it's paid off. Yes, the nodes in and of themselves don't add much game play wise, but it's another part of a bigger whole which requires you to think and plan more than just whacking trees mindlessly for ten minutes like almost every other item you need to gather in the game. It sounds like you had a bad experience with this in Archeage and that's why you're sour about it here, but FFXIV is a different game. -
12-09-2018, 10:38 AMJojoyaIt's not a farce. It's an important facet of MMOs, creating player interdependence and decision making opportunities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitallian
Do I need more of this item? Do I farm it myself over several days or buy part of what I need from other players? Do I forego even getting that item and settle for getting something of lesser quality/value instead?
At least with the timed node system, you know you'll be able to get predictable quantities at known intervals. Would you prefer WoW's system where nodes are competitive and the high end materials are from nodes that are very rare spawns so not only are the chances of coming across a node very small but another player beating you to it means you lose out?
It would not stabilize the markets in any form nor does it give more players access. Everyone has access right now by simply picking up the required job and leveling/gearing it to what's needed to collect that material. It would instead crash markets as the material became so easy to obtain that there is no point in buying from other players.
As for watching and waiting for a node to spawn, the timers are out there if you don't want to set your in game alarm. No need to sit around waiting on it to spawn. It's not uncommon for someone to say "need to grab a timed node, brb" in the middle of a hunt train and they're back with the train without missing out on more than one or two kills because they were making use of those timers to go when the node spawns instead of waiting around. -
12-09-2018, 09:03 PMKageTokage
I'll be honest in saying that I liked WoW's gathering system better in some ways; the biggest of them being that crafted items consistently hold value due to how limited the amount of resources coming in is.
XIV's unlimited gathering system would work if the bots were actually being managed so they wouldn't drive the prices of everything into the floor, but they aren't. I honestly think they need to gate all high-end crafts behind mats that can't be obtained through conventional means even making the stuff bind on pick up if need be, because the economy is always going to be dominated by bot farmers as long as they have easy and unlimited access to crafting mats. If they needed to, say, actually run dungeons to get the mats needed to craft things rather then always having the MB as an option the economy would be much better and mostly populated by people who are actually putting in effort. -
12-09-2018, 09:24 PMAdeacia
I always wonder from a real life perspective, why would the items in timed nodes simply not exist other than a certain time of day?
At the same time that brings up the question of why don't the items you gathered vanish when it's not the right time anymore?
I also wasn't aware that when a location depletes IRL, it would replenish if you just went to a couple of other spots nearby.
Basically the whole gathering system makes no sense. -
12-09-2018, 10:13 PMZetsumei_Tsunarashi
Best way to handle timed nodes is just do them all in a rotation and build up a supply for yourself. That way when you need something from a timed node, you just go get it off your retainer and don't have to wait for the node.
If you're leveling up post 50, doing a rotation of timed collectible nodes is actually the best exp/hr.
Don't be stubborn, use garland bell and put in a list of timed node items to gather, you'll find you're always hitting a node within a minute or two of each other.
TLDR: If you're always just reactively going to a node everytime you need 1 item, you're going to have a bad time. Be proactive and farm the nodes before you need them and your crafting life will be a lot less frustrating. -
12-10-2018, 05:36 AMFrizzeThis line right here. This confused me. Why specifically are timed nodes making it hard to level up? You can level from 1 to 70 without ever touching a timed node. The two best sources of exp are GC turn ins(sometimes but not often timed, always tradable) and levequests(uses quest nodes). Are you trying to level via collectables and stuck in the 51-53 range? Collectables are a decent source of exp, but they arent required for anything other then scrips/scrip-related turnins. So what level range/what materials are we talking about here? There might be a better solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitallian
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12-10-2018, 06:08 AMErudito
I agree that it’s somewhat tedious because, while you wait for a node, you can’t do anything because you will most likely miss the node.
As a console player I would also be interested in a way to keep track of when they spawn without having to turn on a computer. Maybe add a little line in the gathering log that shows the spawn time in Eorzean time that appears after you gather said item once? It would complement the alarm feature that was added not too long ago. -
12-10-2018, 01:41 PMElamysGathering and crafting don't make sense in any game. If you've actually seen a bolt of fabric IRL you'd know how INSANE it is to require 5 bolts of cloth for one shirt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adeacia
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12-11-2018, 07:52 AMShadygroveFFXIV clock has an android appQuote:
Originally Posted by Erudito
https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...dev.ffxivclock
Vitallian, timed nodes are our current gathering endgame. You need scrips for the books, you need stats for the nodes. Goals to be reached in other words. I do a rotation when I am working timed nodes, I am at a different timed node every two game hours.
Would you expect anyone in any L70 set to be able to raid? This is our equivalent. -
12-13-2018, 01:22 AMEric_Riot
Hello all,
I haven't played in two years and I stop when 60 was the max and they just introduced the whole red and blue script thing. I didn't look into it much because I was getting burnt out and it seemed to me that they took a nice casual aspect of the game and decided to make it more complicated then they needed to. FFXIV is a very "Clicky" game.. lots of clicking lots of skill's lots of needs for Macro's. I understand that people who like this types of game are going to be playing this game and people who do not like this style of game have already left. So what we have left is a bunch of people who love the game and will defend it because it's their preferred method of gaming. It's like me walking into a math class say'ing "Ug.. Numbers hard." and everyone is super friendly and they sit down next to me and pull out this 300+ page "Crafting & gathering" manual that I have to study for the next few weeks and … I guess I'm rambling. What I'm trying to say to the OP is that you wont find much sympathy on the forums because everyone who hates this style of gaming is already on to something else.
As to the timers I'm 50/50 on it. I hate gates, and FFXIV is just Packed full of gates every where you turn, yet I know this and understand this and I deal with it. So I too hate the Timers, part of me feel's that people defend the timers because it's their main source of income, if the these "Timer Gates" help keep the Market boards $$ high then they will defend it to their dying breath because this is the only way they can make any real cash <-- just an assumption not point fingers or anything just feel's that way sometimes. "No don't make is so that everyone can get it, all my $$ will go away. This is easy for me!" ;) I'm of the feeling that everyone should have access to everything. Now I understand that things should be hard and I like getting rare stuff that others are to lazy to get. But that shouldn't stop someone from enjoying every aspect of the game. Some people are handy capped in real life, should they not have the right to experience the same things regular people have access to? Some people are more tolerant then others.
Here is my issue with the timers, it's the dam scripts I need better gear but I'm not going to pay the prices they have up on the AH, it's ridicules to pay those prices yet my only other options is to grind scripts for gear that I'm just going to out level. Gear is my issue not Timers (even though if I could I would remove them), how do you get 60-65 gear that is cheap and worth the effort to get with out grinding hours just to toss it later? Leveling is easy Log in do the Daily GC quest and forget about gathering.
Sorry about all this... just thinking as I'm talking... TLDR Timers sucks the answer is the web links that are provided <-- thanks for that btw. -
12-13-2018, 01:38 AMCaitlinzulu
You can allways take a notepad and write the times down like i do.
also ffxivclock has a smartphone app too -
12-13-2018, 01:44 AMCaitlinzulu
I agree gathering and crafting is fairly involved. But if you dumb it down from what we have where is the challenge? its like making savage raids doable by casuals on a free half hour.
It takes preparation gathering beforehand and research in crafting rotations. Even then if you follow a few basic strategies it is still rather easy. -
12-13-2018, 05:20 AMEric_Riot
Things should be hard and difficult, but there should be several different path's to get there. If you want to stream line it fine do the scrips earn the cash and buy it off the auction house, if you want to go at a slower pace I should be allowed to do that as well. There should never be gates. You super gamers with your 1600/1600/800 gear should get better results but I shouldn't have to grind gear or scrips to get gear to have a small chance at success, or have to find a website were the "Timers" can be tracked.. it doesn't have to be this difficult for gathering. I understand that crafting should be more challenging all MMO crafting has it's element of difficulty (NOTHING is compared to ffixv tho they lost their frigging mind)..
For example I shouldn't have to wait for a timer to get a rare item from gathering, just make it 20% chance with Level not item level, and you hard core's 1600/1600/800 should yield 10 per attempt. I'm ok with running around in a circle trying for my 20% with bad gear, while watching some movie on nextflix as long as I have a chance... I shouldn't be limited to 600gp to even try.*shrugs* And you guys are all correct, it's not like the game leaves any other options, it's not your fault the game is created this way. And thank you so much for all your advice it is invaluable. I really do apricate it. I do enjoy the game, it can get exhausting at times that's all.
I thought that gathering was going to be something simple and rewarding in a world of ffxiv complicated MMO world. Nothing casual about it at 60 or up, set timers have a website up have use macro's and lean 20 skill's … gathering is suppose to be simple and fun.. yeah I get it "Cry more Eric." -
12-13-2018, 05:25 AMEric_RiotWhat's the harm in me soloing a raid where I get to see the content, the cutscenes and see the mechanics and enjoy the "contact".. I don't care about the rewards, or XP, or "Drops".. just give me the ability to see the content. You can keep your hard core raids gear and drops for the people who earn it.. I should be able to go in all RP like and be all "Blessed with the light" and enjoy the content. Maybe by soloing it a few time I'll learn the the raid and that would get me to want to get into a raid.. how can more people in duty finder be a bad thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu
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12-15-2018, 01:14 PMElamysThe person you quoted isn't talking about some special easier version of the fight that you can almost ignore the mechanics on just to see the story or whatever. That already exists and it's called normal mode. Maybe someday they'll add a soloable version. But. They're talking about the idea of making savage fights so easy anyone can do them while keeping the rewards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric_Riot
There's no reason to make timed nodes easier because they aren't hard. It is not especially difficult to meet the gear requirements to gather from them. It's not "hardcore" content. Literally all you have to do is wait. That isn't hard. If you want hard content that involves waiting go do the sightseeing log for ARR and come back to me. Gathering in this game truly is not that difficult. The vast majority of it is "walk up to the node and click on it." You can completely ignore collectibles if you want, so there goes any idea of rotation, and collectibles are the most complicated part of gathering.
If you are finding gathering difficult in the game, there are a huge wealth of guides out there, and people willing to help. You can ask in NN for Trade mentors to help you. If gathering is made easier from its current state but retains the same items, it's unfair to those of us who enjoy gathering as it is and play the game mainly to gather and craft. No, timed nodes aren't difficult, but I would still be really annoyed if some random guy who's never put effort into it in his life was able to gather the same rare items I could at the same rate. There is nothing wrong with having gathering or crafting be more than braindead easy in an MMO.