Regarding TP being merged into MP

MP usually stands for Magic Points, and some jobs in this game don't really use magic. Would it be possible to change MP into something like AP (Action Points) since they're tied to...you know, actions?

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Originally Posted by Antanias

MP usually stands for Magic Points, and some jobs in this game don't really use magic. Would it be possible to change MP into something like AP (Action Points) since they're tied to...you know, actions?

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Not really. It usually stands for "Mana Points". And 'mana' stands for an interpersonal supernatural power in its real-world meaning. In fantasy settings, it is the go-to word for all sorts of unspecified energy source used for anything that should not be possible for whatever physical characteristics something possesses, or even the building block for physical aspects of given world.

In other words, MP is always correct regardless of context.

I'll like this because I was thinking the same, though I was calling it AP for Aether Points. What's in a name though?

Although they weren't MMOs, some older FF games also had skills/magic fall under the MP value. So it could just be from a consistency point of view that's what SE decided for FFXIV, as TP weren't that often associated with FF much to begin with.

There going to have to completely retool PLDs as they have spells that use MP and abilities that use TP.

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

There going to have to completely retool PLDs as they have spells that use MP and abilities that use TP.

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BRD and DRK are gonna get it the worst with their kits assuming no changes are done to costs.

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Originally Posted by VitalSuit

BRD and DRK are gonna get it the worst with their kits assuming no changes are done to costs.

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Dunno, all the jobs are probably going to get overhauled.

while i know its not likely i am super hoping this change means weaponskills will cost nothing and there is no management there anymore.


also on the topic of mp most mmo's use mp as a thing connected to all skills not just magic skills. (at least all the ones i have played)

Aether Points would definitely be a good name for a single combined bar. It fits the lore and a lot of the explanations of how power is used and channeled.

Mana isn't even a concept here.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Although they weren't MMOs, some older FF games also had skills/magic fall under the MP value. So it could just be from a consistency point of view that's what SE decided for FFXIV, as TP weren't that often associated with FF much to begin with.

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Pretty much this, Final fantasy games have always had physical and magical skills come from the same source, MP, discounting when you only had "uses" of spells.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

while i know its not likely i am super hoping this change means weaponskills will cost nothing and there is no management there anymore.


also on the topic of mp most mmo's use mp as a thing connected to all skills not just magic skills. (at least all the ones i have played)

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Very unlikely, it would make jobs like WAR basically have nothing to lose while casters still have to deal with management. Much more likely weaponskills will follow a similar MP usage as spells, while things like holy spirit or foe requiem could be fully reworked.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Very unlikely, it would make jobs like WAR basically have nothing to lose while casters still have to deal with management. Much more likely weaponskills will follow a similar MP usage as spells, while things like holy spirit or foe requiem could be fully reworked.

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well that's that i am talking about it will be nice to not have to worry about tp management or mp management on melee jobs aka tp jobs where only mages have to worry about that sort of thing.

sounds easier to me also since it would require less reworking to begin with well other than changing aoe's since it would give tp jobs unlimited aoes.

but i also know SE won't be doing this, just kinda wish they would.

TP is only in the game because it was in 1.0, I could see why they would remove it when it is just another hurdle when it comes to balancing the jobs within the game. Since they not only have to look at the potency of the abilities but also the cost of them compared to other jobs and how long they can retain their TP in the same timeframe as other jobs.

By removing the cost of skills they can instead focus on gameplay mechanics that encourage the player to play better. AKA instead of Ninki gauge being tied to NIN's auto-attack they could instead stick it the end of all NIN's combos which in theory would help players realize that hey if I want to play good I need to finish the combo to build my Ninki gauge.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Very unlikely, it would make jobs like WAR basically have nothing to lose while casters still have to deal with management. Much more likely weaponskills will follow a similar MP usage as spells, while things like holy spirit or foe requiem could be fully reworked.

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Gating casters is necessary given 5/6 of them can raise.

In terms of TP management it practically doesn't exist outside of aoe situations, since TP costs are as small as they are. As per your WAR example, the only thing that costs a significant amount of TP is Overpower, which isn't really used outside of dungeon trash pulls.

If you look at how TP is balanced currently, it's almost impossible to run out in a single target situation, especially with the availability of Tactician, Goad and Invigorate. For this reason I think they will probably just have most weapon skills have no cost, and it also means that no changes need to be made to DRK, PLD and BRD since their MP usage is unaffected by the change.

What I think they might do is add an MP cost to AoE skills and limit them in that way. Although what I hope they do in the next expansion is just give each class skills so that they all have a proper AoE rotation and balance around that.

If it does end up being the case that all skills on physical classes do cost MP, I think that BRD is quite an easy fix by just changing Foe's to a cooldown based ability rather than costing MP. PLD and DRK of course would need a much more thorough rework.

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Originally Posted by Antanias

MP usually stands for Magic Points, and some jobs in this game don't really use magic. Would it be possible to change MP into something like AP (Action Points) since they're tied to...you know, actions?

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From a data analysis point of view, they probably did it simply to remove a data point, because removing that data point removes the complexity of the calculations tracked and sent to each client. So it's very likely they will just map AP directly over MP as a %, which is basically how Magic works anyways. No matter what level you're at, the skills all use a fixed % of the bar, and that's no different from using TP that always capped at 1000. Where it might complicate some players rotations are those like PLD where they have usable skills that use MP and TP. Then again they could also just reduce the overall cost and potency so that the end result is the same amount of damage.

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Originally Posted by number473

PLD and DRK of course would need a much more thorough rework.

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RDM would need some looking into as well, especially since their real TP guzzler is their melee aoe skill, which I agree with you is the one time they should still give weaponskills costs.
Though in the case of RDM they could go the simple route and gate the melee skills behind RDM'ss own unique Mana bars. I don't think it's that worthwhile to use them unless they're Enchanted anyway so it'll work. Single Target combo can still be as-is, just without tp costs. At leas the first skill, you gotta start with something

As long as elemental resistances have been removed, and all grades of glamour prism collapsed in a single one, I see the MP/TP merge into the so-called AP as another simplification of things.
Remember the ps3 era, when we could not see both bars?

The merge surely isn't for free, all jobs that are using both have to be reworked for sure. Cannot say if the added simplification makes up for the effort needed to make this change.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

The merge surely isn't for free, all jobs that are using both have to be reworked for sure. Cannot say if the added simplification makes up for the effort needed to make this change.

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The sooner they make the change, the less work they'll need to do. Imagine introducing a new hybrid class - that's another class they'd have had to change eventually, but now will design it from the get-go with only the one bar.
Let's face facts, most jobs don't use both bars. Some of the ones that do are in danger, but everyone else couldn't care less. Since the Sprint changes, a TP bar to a BLM is like Lilies to a WHM - waste of space on my screen. Given how widely the use of only one bar is, it's wasteful to keep letting it go on. It's a waste of hud, waste of traffic as said above because everyone in your party need to see both your MP and TP, and it's a good incentive to make some job gauges actually do something - all jobs still have at least two active resources, it's just that this resource was added on top of the TP/MP clutter. Now's the time to fix that.

On the flip side it will have some interesting effects, because you might have less skills for Ranged (tho I hope they turn either Tactician or Refresh into a straight agro mitigator), and suddenly Goad and Invigorate suddenly have a much larger audience (unless they limit who they can be used on, which imo would be a shame)

As a Paladin main I'm curious and a bit scared on how will this merge change my job, but I'm Looking Forward To It™.

Hopefully, this means sprint gets unlimited use in sanctuaries and out of combat situations.

I'm just wondering how it affects classes that use both resource pools

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Hopefully, this means sprint gets unlimited use in sanctuaries and out of combat situations.

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How does this have anything to do with sprint?! It have long since stopped using TP. It's not affected at all. It's just a normal cooldown-based skill.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

How does this have anything to do with sprint?! It have long since stopped using TP. It's not affected at all. It's just a normal cooldown-based skill.

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Oh right. Don't know why I still thought it ran on tp

I dun' goofed

As a PLD, i am also scared. I don't like any other actions dipping into my MP pool.

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

I'm just wondering how it affects classes that use both resource pools

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going to be interesting.

RDM probably won't matter at all.

PLD's Oath Gauge might be used by a lot more things.

i think the whole idea started from them wanting to rework DRK.

They might replace the TP bar with something else or with a redone job resource. They'll probably elaborate at the next 2 fanfests as it might have something to do with the new jobs/job reworks.

I'm fairly confident the abilities will also get overhauled if it is a shared resource. But I only see BRD, PLD, and DRK being potentially "negatively" impacted by this change.

I mean, BRDs would cripple themselves with Foe Requiem if it remained the same, which just means no one would ever use it.

PLD main issue would be staying above 80% MP for Requiescat activation, and honestly I wouldn't mind having some light MP management on PLD. As it is right now I never check my MP bar before I activate Requiescat, I already know I've done enough Goring Blade/RA combos to get my MP to full whenever it's off cooldown.

I don't know, how much of a problem it would be on DRK or not. It would reduce the amount of DAs one could do per burst, but I don't imagine it would be considerably more MP management than DRKs have to deal with already.



For the other jobs this mostly seems like a plus since most of them already have more MP than TP, and that MP is never used... if costs remained the same that would mean they could maintain AoE rotations way longer than they do currently... and that would be nice.

I don't mind them doing a merge of resources just means another combat rework that I hope this time solves a few issues with some of the classes.

I could see PLD getting a second bar on the job gauge that works like the current MP bar.

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Originally Posted by Hycinthus

As a PLD, i am also scared. I don't like any other actions dipping into my MP pool.

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5x holy spirit into inability to agro combo... the moveset/oath gauge will need a lot of work for sure

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

5x holy spirit into inability to agro combo... the moveset/oath gauge will need a lot of work for sure

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I was in the middle of explaining how it's doable and reached the conclusion PLD might not need as much rework as we think it would. I say this because of BLM and RDM.

Why did I bring up BLM? Because it has, imo, the best job gauge. It tells you all the information you need to know with the exception of your procs, and it gives you that bunchload of info in a sleek, easy to understand way.
1. Astral Fire/Umbral Ice indication
2. what rank that particular buff is at, 1-3
3. Whether or not Enochian is up
4. A timer ticking down the elemental buff, and also Enochian
5. Polygloat indication
6. Polygloat countdown

So they can make really complex, informative gauges when they want to. Not every gauge is a glorified timer ticking down (ok BLM's is but at least it's not literally all it is). And then we have RDM.

RDM's job gauge is two mana bars.

Add a mana bar to its gauge. Change all PLD's skills that added or cost MP to interact with the new gauge. Call it a day. Can arguably work for DRK with TP.
My biggest concern with this is that they'll have to introduce it about as early as they introduce Flash.

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Originally Posted by BillyKaplan

My biggest concern with this is that they'll have to introduce it about as early as they introduce Flash.

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That shouldn't matter too much. BLM's elemental gauge gets introduced that early, when all you have on it is a single fire/ice marker and countdown.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Oh right. Don't know why I still thought it ran on tp

I dun' goofed

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It used to consume all of your remaining TP, and give you a duration sprint buff based on how much TP was consumed. They removed the TP cost a while back ago and gave it constant values.

Honestly, if Riot Blade continues giving MP, they could just make holy spirit take slightly less MP than now, leaving you with enough MP left over afterwards and with the MP regen, enough to do some melee combos without bottoming out. Keeping it above 80% should be pretty easy if Riot Blade still gives a decent amount of MP. They could even adjust the % down to make up for the fact that the melee combos are pulling from it. Or they could just be lazy and make Req like IR with free casts.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

That shouldn't matter too much. BLM's elemental gauge gets introduced that early, when all you have on it is a single fire/ice marker and countdown.

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That is true.
Though on the way home I thought that if they did go down that route, it would mean you can't Mana Shift PLDs anymore. Which saved some runs I've been on when no other healer was up. That said, it's such an edge case, I'm not sure they'll even bother keeping it in mind.

As cool as it would be for weapon skills to have no costs, the job gauges reminded me of how the combat of 1.0 used to work (and how ff11 still works). That being the original battle system where you build up to 3k TP and then spend it on various weaponskills and actions. If no-cost weaponskills were to perform the task of, let's say, gauge points for certain jobs...wouldn't it be just like the old system all over again?

Then again, could it be different enough in that it wouldn't feel like 1.0's system?

My guess is that standard actions will cost no resources while aoe moves that used to cost TP now cost MP or AOE moves that used to just cost resources now have a cooldown timer.

They might rely more of the job gauges with this system