Ninja: Replace Throwing Dagger with Fuma Shuriken?

Ever since unlocking Raiton as a Ninja many years back when I first started playing Ninja I found myself steadily using Fuma Shuriken less and less as I started to see it as a waste of an ability to use unless I was soloing a certain type of monster that I didn't want to risk getting close too quickly with or during certain rare instances when I can't get close enough to an enemy within range while inside dungeons, raids, etc where Raiton could reach.

I then started to get curious and wonder if other players who played Ninja had started doing the same thing I was doing and after a few dozen dungeons and raids with at least one Ninja in my party I officially confirmed that Fuma Shuriken was hardly if at all being used in the favor of Raiton as a ranged ninjutsu ability.

So what do you all here think of replacing Throwing Dagger, Ninja's constant available instant mid ranged strike attack skill, for Fuma Shurkien to give the latter ability more viability again?

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Originally Posted by Soge01

Ever since unlocking Raiton as a Ninja many years back when I first started playing Ninja I found myself steadily using Fuma Shuriken less and less as I started to see it as a waste of an ability to use unless I was soloing a certain type of monster that I didn't want to risk getting close too quickly with or during certain rare instances when I can't get close enough to an enemy within range while inside dungeons, raids, etc where Raiton could reach.

I then started to get curious and wonder if other players who played Ninja had started doing the same thing I was doing and after a few dozen dungeons and raids with at least one Ninja in my party I officially confirmed that Fuma Shuriken was hardly if at all being used in the favor of Raiton as a ranged ninjutsu ability.

So what do you all here think of replacing Throwing Dagger, Ninja's constant available instant mid ranged strike attack skill, for Fuma Shurkien to give the latter ability more viability again?

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If you make too many abilities viable, we'll run out of hotkeys and and hotbars will end up covering the screen. It's fine that an attack that's not needed isn't being used much anymore.

The issue of Raiton vs Fuma Shuriken is entirely dependent on ping. I don't have the best internet, so raiton clips my GCD really hard. I use fuma shuriken because it doesn't. There's also math out there that suggests that the difference in DPS is largely negligible if it only clips your GCD a little.

Fuma Shuriken is used more than Raiton in end game because Raiton will always clip. Even top JP players tend to use Fuma over Raiton and they have very low ping. I believe people only use Raiton when Kassatsu is up.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Fuma Shuriken is used more than Raiton in end game because Raiton will always clip. Even top JP players tend to use Fuma over Raiton and they have very low ping. I believe people only use Raiton when Kassatsu is up.

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Yeah, this right here.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Fuma Shuriken is used more than Raiton in end game because Raiton will always clip. Even top JP players tend to use Fuma over Raiton and they have very low ping. I believe people only use Raiton when Kassatsu is up.

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Pretty much this right here.

Fuma is better than Raiton most of the time, because Raiton will always clip your GCD and it doesn't get the 20% damage bonus from the trait nor does it benefit from slashing debuff. Fuma's true potency under slashing resistance is a bit over 300 and it doesn't clip your GCD. Raiton is good when you inevitably end up delaying a GCD, such as when you cannot reach the target, or you are using Kassatsu (and based on top fflogs, even this isn't always true).

Oh, I see now. Thank you guys for the explanations. Guess I have alot more to learn about how fast paced RPG games work. :)

I'll take my kunai. Fuma still gets used plenty due to the gcd clipping that has been pointed out. I only use Raiton if Kassatsu is up outside burst windows. Those who can weave it without clipping are far better NIN than I... or have godly ping^^

Fuma also has greater range than Raiton if mechanics force you even outside Raiton's range, and you'll also want to go Fuma if the boss has some kind of magic mitigation up.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'll take my kunai.

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I was always disappointed that Throwing Dagger and Death Blossom weren't updated to use kunai when Rogue became Ninja... Just the same old daggers Thancred has used since 1.0...

Don't Raiton with Kassatsu either, you use it during ta and you don't want to clip more than needed during it, wadatada.

I can't claim to know anything in-depth about NIN. But what I can say is that I find it laughable that players get so caught up on things like clipping half a GCD as if it's the end of the world...

...and then proceed to miss tons of entire GCDs and positionals every fight as a result of terrible positioning and poorly optimized strategies.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with optimizing to reduce clipping. But ultimately it is a pretty high-end optimization. People shouldn't be worrying about that when they can't even handle basic optimizations.

Not accusing anyone here, but just stating something relevant that I repeatedly see evidence of when playing.

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Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

I can't claim to know anything in-depth about NIN. But what I can say is that I find it laughable that players get so caught up on things like clipping half a GCD as if it's the end of the world...

...and then proceed to miss tons of entire GCDs and positionals every fight as a result of terrible positioning and poorly optimized strategies.

I mean, there's nothing wrong with optimizing to reduce clipping. But ultimately it is a pretty high-end optimization. People shouldn't be worrying about that when they can't even handle basic optimizations.

Not accusing anyone here, but just stating something relevant that I repeatedly see evidence of when playing.

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All the small mistakes add up over the course of a fight, it's just as bad to focus on 1 of the things listed and ignore the rest. Clipping your gcd ends up being the equivalent of missing gcds over the course of a fight (which you already listed as bad), not to mention it feels bad when you're mashing the next button but it's not going off because of animation lock from the ability you just used.