Idea: solo SMN content for egi-glamours

Part of Summoner's thing in FFXI was doing solo summon challenges in order to summon them. FFXIV keeps that spirit in its job quests by having you do a solo duty against a primal, but we only ever get the 3 original primals from the early game. There's also the egi-glamour system we were promised that seemingly got sidelined after Carbuncle.

What if they combined the egi-glamour system with solo SMN duties? There have been a lot of primals so far that could be turned into SMN-only duties, and when you clear you gain the egi-glamour. If you already have the clear, make them replayable for tomes. Have a summoner spellbook menu where you pick which glamour goes on each pet type, with each primal being locked to a single type that fits it. Each patch could add a few more to go get.

Attack type: Ifrit, Leviathan, Ravana, Zurvan, Odin, Susano
Tank type: Titan, Bismarck, Sephirot, King Mog
Caster Type: Garuda, Shiva, Ramuh, Sophia, maybe Lakshmi?

Byakko, Suzaku and Seiryu may not fit thematically as they're not primals but it'd be cool to see them as well. Phoenix or Tsukuyomi would be nice too.

The skills for each could have the same effects per pet type for balance reasons, maybe with different names/animations if they want to go that far (because Leviathan using Flaming Crush would be a bit odd).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azle

(because Leviathan using Flaming Crush would be a bit odd).

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Oddly satisfying LOL

I 100% support this. I am of the mind that egi's need to go, but if they do stay this is an amazing idea. I also have a counter offer, scrap egi's and do the same thing but make Demi-Primal glamour. Some of us may not always want to use Bahamut, but being able to glamour our favorite Primal onto his as a Demi-Primal would be awesome as well. Keep everything the same, just have a glamour for the Primal instead.

The biggest problem with SMN as SMN (that is, in regards to the thematic identity of SMN as a traditional FF SMN; with no judgements on the quality of gameplay mechanics or balance of the job as a job) is that most of their actions are self-enacted. Really I think the best fix to SMN as a thematic entity would be to take the existing abilities, leave them mechanically unchanged, but rename and reanimate them to be more summoncentric.

For example:

• Ruin => Call: poofs a carbuncle or random available egi into existence to perform a single ranged attack.
• Ruin II => Call II: drops a fat chocobo or an egi out of the sky onto the target to perform a single ground pound sort of attack.
• Bio => Sap: poofs something into existance to perform a Bio-like attack.
• etc

The job needs more poofing of spirits or egis for one-off attacks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azle

Part of Summoner's thing in FFXI was doing solo summon challenges in order to summon them. FFXIV keeps that spirit in its job quests by having you do a solo duty against a primal, but we only ever get the 3 original primals from the early game. There's also the egi-glamour system we were promised that seemingly got sidelined after Carbuncle.

What if they combined the egi-glamour system with solo SMN duties? There have been a lot of primals so far that could be turned into SMN-only duties, and when you clear you gain the egi-glamour. If you already have the clear, make them replayable for tomes. Have a summoner spellbook menu where you pick which glamour goes on each pet type, with each primal being locked to a single type that fits it. Each patch could add a few more to go get.

Attack type: Ifrit, Leviathan, Ravana, Zurvan, Odin, Susano
Tank type: Titan, Bismarck, Sephirot, King Mog
Caster Type: Garuda, Shiva, Ramuh, Sophia, maybe Lakshmi?

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Yoshi-P?
Development team?
Community reps?

Are you taking notes?

Because THIS is the best way to properly implement the Egi Glamour system (and not that Carbuncle command non-sense) going forward.

Please do it.

(Unless you've already thought of something similar and are actively working on it, in which case...carry on).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azle

Byakko, Suzaku and Seiryu may not fit thematically as they're not primals but it'd be cool to see them as well. Phoenix or Tsukuyomi would be nice too.

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Eh, since they're not Primals/Eikons I could live without them having Egis.
Phoenix and Tsukuyomi are good, though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azle

The skills for each could have the same effects per pet type for balance reasons, maybe with different names/animations if they want to go that far (because Leviathan using Flaming Crush would be a bit odd).

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Oh yes, definitely.
They all need to have their own exclusive elemental animations for their actions (Enkindle included), even if they fulfill the same roles as our original Summon I/Summon II/Summon III.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rongway

The biggest problem with SMN as SMN (that is, in regards to the thematic identity of SMN as a traditional FF SMN; with no judgements on the quality of gameplay mechanics or balance of the job as a job) is that most of their actions are self-enacted. Really I think the best fix to SMN as a thematic entity would be to take the existing abilities, leave them mechanically unchanged, but rename and reanimate them to be more summoncentric.

For example:

• Ruin => Call: poofs a carbuncle or random available egi into existence to perform a single ranged attack.
• Ruin II => Call II: drops a fat chocobo or an egi out of the sky onto the target to perform a single ground pound sort of attack.
• Bio => Sap: poofs something into existance to perform a Bio-like attack.
• etc

The job needs more poofing of spirits or egis for one-off attacks.

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There are several problems with your ideas, especially considering that each FF has an "unique" take on their iconic jobs (else, we wouldn't have had a far-eastern themed BLU in FF11).

But the most glaring one is that gameplay-wise SMNs are meant to hold their own, being able to fight alongside their summons and not relying exclusively on them.
Thus the presence of their (enhanced) Ruin spells and the like.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azle

Part of Summoner's thing in FFXI was doing solo summon challenges in order to summon them. FFXIV keeps that spirit in its job quests by having you do a solo duty against a primal, but we only ever get the 3 original primals from the early game. There's also the egi-glamour system we were promised that seemingly got sidelined after Carbuncle.

What if they combined the egi-glamour system with solo SMN duties? There have been a lot of primals so far that could be turned into SMN-only duties, and when you clear you gain the egi-glamour. If you already have the clear, make them replayable for tomes. Have a summoner spellbook menu where you pick which glamour goes on each pet type, with each primal being locked to a single type that fits it. Each patch could add a few more to go get.

Attack type: Ifrit, Leviathan, Ravana, Zurvan, Odin, Susano
Tank type: Titan, Bismarck, Sephirot, King Mog
Caster Type: Garuda, Shiva, Ramuh, Sophia, maybe Lakshmi?

Byakko, Suzaku and Seiryu may not fit thematically as they're not primals but it'd be cool to see them as well. Phoenix or Tsukuyomi would be nice too.

The skills for each could have the same effects per pet type for balance reasons, maybe with different names/animations if they want to go that far (because Leviathan using Flaming Crush would be a bit odd).

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Agreed on the last point. They may be able to implement that by just giving Egi abilities a generic name for macro purposes, that activates the same ability whatever the flavour text says, to avoid having e.g. 5 iterations of the same ability. Also agree completely that the egis should be locked to a specific role type, which best suits the Primal/Eikon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azle

Part of Summoner's thing in FFXI was doing solo summon challenges in order to summon them. FFXIV keeps that spirit in its job quests by having you do a solo duty against a primal, but we only ever get the 3 original primals from the early game. There's also the egi-glamour system we were promised that seemingly got sidelined after Carbuncle.

What if they combined the egi-glamour system with solo SMN duties? There have been a lot of primals so far that could be turned into SMN-only duties, and when you clear you gain the egi-glamour. If you already have the clear, make them replayable for tomes. Have a summoner spellbook menu where you pick which glamour goes on each pet type, with each primal being locked to a single type that fits it. Each patch could add a few more to go get.

Attack type: Ifrit, Leviathan, Ravana, Zurvan, Odin, Susano
Tank type: Titan, Bismarck, Sephirot, King Mog
Caster Type: Garuda, Shiva, Ramuh, Sophia, maybe Lakshmi?

Byakko, Suzaku and Seiryu may not fit thematically as they're not primals but it'd be cool to see them as well. Phoenix or Tsukuyomi would be nice too.

The skills for each could have the same effects per pet type for balance reasons, maybe with different names/animations if they want to go that far (because Leviathan using Flaming Crush would be a bit odd).

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I like your idea, but I'd also separate a fourth category:

Demi type: Bahamut, Leviathan, Bismark... Basically you'd be able to choose the "big" summon too, so oversized ones would fit into this category.

Though for this above to work well, they'd have to re-name some of the Wyrm-themed abilities, to neuter the "dragonmage" aspect that SMN has now: Dreadwyrm Trance -> Aethertrance... Enkindle Bahamut -> Enkindle II.

I thought originally, before the Carbuncle thing, this sort of thing would be the way they go.

Optional side quest at some point:
Austerities of Lightning, complete to unlock Ramuh-egi glamour.
Austerities of Water, complete to unlock Leviathan-egi glamour.
Austerities of Ice, complete to unlock Shiva-egi glamou.
Trial of the Dark Divinity, complete to unlock Demi-Odin glamour for Summon IV ability.

I'd like if any egi can be used in any basic summon slot (not Summon IV/Summon Bahamut though.)
They'd need some new animations for stuff like contagion/landslide/radiant shield equivalents, but autos, the AoE ability and maybe to a degree Enkindle can all be reused no matter which role they're in.

I'd kill for a Ravana-Egi and Demi-Alexander.

You know this would've been a good idea to ask at the fan festival, but gotten bad questions from the community sadly early on. Hopefully this will be asked at either the next fan festival or the live letter for the patch goes live.

Was talking to a friend about this last night and we came to the conclusion that egi glamours could be tied to achievements both old and new. Give them a sense of prestige and accomplishment.

For example, beat UCoB to unlock a golden Bahamut skin for Demi Bahamut. Beat T12 synced to unlock Phoenix egi. Etc.

My biggest bug bear about solo content is that it's generally easy and everyone will run around with the same egis. Make them somewhat challenging to unlock so we see an actual variety. Look how many Ruby Carbuncles we saw on release.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azle

Part of Summoner's thing in FFXI was doing solo summon challenges in order to summon them. FFXIV keeps that spirit in its job quests by having you do a solo duty against a primal, but we only ever get the 3 original primals from the early game. There's also the egi-glamour system we were promised that seemingly got sidelined after Carbuncle.

What if they combined the egi-glamour system with solo SMN duties? There have been a lot of primals so far that could be turned into SMN-only duties, and when you clear you gain the egi-glamour. If you already have the clear, make them replayable for tomes. Have a summoner spellbook menu where you pick which glamour goes on each pet type, with each primal being locked to a single type that fits it. Each patch could add a few more to go get.

Attack type: Ifrit, Leviathan, Ravana, Zurvan, Odin, Susano
Tank type: Titan, Bismarck, Sephirot, King Mog
Caster Type: Garuda, Shiva, Ramuh, Sophia, maybe Lakshmi?

Byakko, Suzaku and Seiryu may not fit thematically as they're not primals but it'd be cool to see them as well. Phoenix or Tsukuyomi would be nice too.

The skills for each could have the same effects per pet type for balance reasons, maybe with different names/animations if they want to go that far (because Leviathan using Flaming Crush would be a bit odd).

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The problem isn't the Egi-Glamour system, it's the devs actually wanting to use the egi-glamour system /sigh. The key problem I find with soloing primals is their unique attacks instant K.O. like Titan cage, very annoying, so it would require SE to rewrite some of the fight.

As for you break down, it's limiting and should be divided into Physical DPS and Range DPS with Summon II failing into the Physical DPS category. For Example:

Physical: Ifrit, Titan, Shiva
Range: Garuda, Ramuh, Leviathan.

This gives the player more freedom to use their favorite summons more often in group content instead of limiting some to just solo play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azle

Part of Summoner's thing in FFXI was doing solo summon challenges in order to summon them. FFXIV keeps that spirit in its job quests by having you do a solo duty against a primal, but we only ever get the 3 original primals from the early game. There's also the egi-glamour system we were promised that seemingly got sidelined after Carbuncle.

What if they combined the egi-glamour system with solo SMN duties? There have been a lot of primals so far that could be turned into SMN-only duties, and when you clear you gain the egi-glamour. If you already have the clear, make them replayable for tomes. Have a summoner spellbook menu where you pick which glamour goes on each pet type, with each primal being locked to a single type that fits it. Each patch could add a few more to go get.

Attack type: Ifrit, Leviathan, Ravana, Zurvan, Odin, Susano
Tank type: Titan, Bismarck, Sephirot, King Mog
Caster Type: Garuda, Shiva, Ramuh, Sophia, maybe Lakshmi?

Byakko, Suzaku and Seiryu may not fit thematically as they're not primals but it'd be cool to see them as well. Phoenix or Tsukuyomi would be nice too.

The skills for each could have the same effects per pet type for balance reasons, maybe with different names/animations if they want to go that far (because Leviathan using Flaming Crush would be a bit odd).

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I absolutely agree.

I think it would also be awesome if we could eventually get better looks for the egis. I mean, having gigantic primals as your pet wouldn't work, but if you can have a chocobo as pet, couldn't we get at least chocobo-sized primals as pets (they could be implemented as glamour) instead of barely recognizable egis? Lore-wise, they could say that these smaller but otherwise identical versions of primals are more advanced egis or something that you unlock as you become a stronger Summoner.

Either that or some new actions that involve the primal appearing, attacking and leaving.

The point is, SE made Blue Mage a limited job because they wanted it to be loyal to what the job is about. Personally, I don't mind that. But what about Summoner? The cool thing about Summoner was always obtaining a bunch of cool creatures and use them to fight. When you only have four and they barely look like themselves (except Carbuncle), it does feel like the job could get some more dev love. And in a game with tons of primals/summons (there's still Knights of the Round and Shinryu) the lack of variety in egi/glamours stings even more.