AST vs SCH?

So I've been trying to level a healer lately, and I noticed something that I wanted to discuss/confirm. I have AST at 60, and SCH at 63, and I've been leaning towards SCH because I love the shields. I've always enjoyed preventive healing over reactive. I thought that SCH's had the best shields for healing, but I was comparing them to Noct AST earlier, and I noticed something.

Keeping the 3 level difference in mind, Aspected Ben is less mana than Adlo, 100 less potency, but a 250% shield based on healing done. Which if I remember how percentages work, means that Aspected Ben shields for just over 400 potency (Aspected Ben has a potency of 200). If Adlo crits, its shields are doubled, which makes it better than AST shields, but barring a crit, at a base level, wouldn't AST be better at shielding?


I also compared Aspected Helio to Succuor, Helios right now is cheaper, has the same potency as Succor, and the same 150% shield. So all in all, are the two classes about the same when it comes to shielding? Or is one actually better than the other?

Aspected benefic shield is actually 575 potency.
Why ? Because Nocturnal Sect has a passive healing potency increase of 15%, and 250% of barrier of the initial potency.

Aspected Helios shields are 258 potency.

Adlo is 300, critadlo is 600.
Succor is 225.

Aspected Benefic (575) > Adlo (300)
Critadlo (600) > Aspected Benefic (non crit)
Aspected Helios (258) > Succor (225)

Also, the reason Ast have fewer mana cost is because its mana managment is a bit different from scholar which has Aetherflow every 45s (with the trait), energy drain and lucid dreaming, which are pure mana regen while Ast only has Lucid Dreaming and lightspeed, which half cost, but doesn't bring mana back.

As for which one's the best.
Potencies alone, Ast wins (except for a deployed critlo from Scholar,which is 600 aoe).
But to really tell which one's the best at "shielding" (i'd say mitigating), sch is better for various reasons (more sustained and free heals thanks to the fairy and aetherflow action), better "mitigation" overall (sacred soil 30s, fairy magical damage buff).
Ast relays far more on his shield alone, and sometimes on Collective Unconciousness but its CD is longer (and the bole is RNG,but you wouldn't want to erase a party dps buff for mitigation).

So while Aspected Benefic being so powerful is awesome,that's more the whole kit that also matters.

The difference is however not that significant once in combat cause, sch "weaker" potencies are enough to mitigate incoming damage.
Ast shields are a lot stronger because, like I said, it relies more on those as a mitigation healer.

FWIW I did really enjoy late heavensward noct AST - you could spam very low cost, very strong shields. It's not an optimal playstyle, but it was fun in its way. AB's mana cost was increased a fair bit so it's not quite possible to spam shields for days - but if you like handing out lots of shields, I would still play noct AST over SCH.

Now in a raid setting it's entirely different since you want to minimize casts, and SCH has a lot more going for it than shields so the AST will typically be diurnal and doing regens instead. Regens are also far more MP efficient for effective HP restored, so to optimize play you don't typically want to use shields except where you have to.

So the question is, how do you want to play? If you want a shield spammer just for fun, go with Noct AST. If you're looking to play in a raid setting and want key timings to make all the difference (but not using shields when you can avoid it), play SCH.

Play the one you like the most. Both are good and desired. When I heal as sch I only put up preventative shields up for ae's in most content. Tank busters eat an excog. Scholars real healing power is in the fairy healing and the instant heals from aetherflow. Actually casting a heal means the groups having problems.

Ast and Sch heal way to differently. If this was a WHM/AST discussion then it would be an issue. Since AST is just a carbon copy of the basic whm tool kit.

The problem with Noct AST is that it plays very poorly when you compare it to it's competition which is SCH. Theres a few reasons for this, the main one is the fairy. Not having a passive regen feels really bad when most of the damage in this game comes from auto attacks. The second problem being that 9/10 times going Diurnal with a WHM is actually better than going shield just because there's hardly any reasons for shields outside the necessity (O12) and stacking Regens is more efficient. It also doesn't help that Time Dilation and Celestial Opposition have no synergy with Nocturnal because extending shields doesn't really do anything and you can extend Diurnal regens.

I know many parties where people actually kick Noct AST because healing with one isn't fun because they're pretty trash tier.

tl;dr Yes AST shields are generally stronger on a consistent level but it doesn't matter because you hardly use shields in any content.

I just want to say thank you to everyone that responded to this thread, all the information was very helpful and insightful! Especially KDSilver for breaking down the numbers, I always prefer to have numbers thrown at me because then I can understand how things work a bit better. So overall it seems that SCH is the better class depending on situation, but AST has the better shields, which is good to know. I know this goes off the topic a bit, but is one of them considered 'easier' for new healers? I hate micromanaging pets, so having to micro manage the fairy in raids will be an issue for me, I'll wind up forgetting that I have a fairy with moves to use. That being said, I also don't raid though, so I suppose it doesn't really matter.... >.> But either way, is one of them 'easier' than the other?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

Adlo is 300, critadlo is 600.
Aspected Benefic (575) > Adlo (300)
Critadlo (600) > Aspected Benefic (non crit)

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Critical Adlo shield potency is 900 instead of 600.
If crit, the shields are:
Adlo (900) > Aspected Benefic (862.5)

Adlo (300*2*1.5 = 900)
Aspected Benefic (200*2.5*1.15*1.5 = 862.5)

Also there is little meaning in comparing the shields because SCH has so much more to offer and so much more flexible than Noct.Ast.

SCH is OP and the best healer for high end raids, while WHN/AST has to fight for the one spot left over.

Ty for the reply, I forgot how to calculate crit values.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jscagg

But either way, is one of them 'easier' than the other?

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It's just a force of habit to be honest. I hate having to think about cards but enjoy micromanaging my pet. To each their own. Overall AST is easier to play though. DPS is pretty straightforward, SCH is a bit more involved, between stacks, 3 dots to manage, weaving, mana. SCH is also pretty naked if you use all your stacks and stuff goes wrong. But honestly, it's a small gap and a debatable statement to say the least.

Noct AST isn't bad (as much as people like to complain about it). It's rdps is still up there with sch and that's all that matters in a raiding context. Not sure why people still like to compare healing kits since healing is secondary in this game and the noct toolkit doesn't really dampen their dps so it's a moot point to bring up.
I think the noct ast complaints are mostly leftovers from before their recent buffs, it was pretty valid then as SCH had always traditionally had the upper hand. But it's different now. Now a days there's virtually no difference in rdps between SCH and AST (noct or diu).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jscagg

But either way, is one of them 'easier' than the other?

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Depends on what's harder for you? In terms of abilities both posses their own fair sets of OGCD abilities that can heal a group without relying too much on GCD heal abilities (which is what makes them favorable). One has to manage the cards that rng throws at them, the other manages their pet. At the highest level a good AST knows what to do with a card they get as soon as they draw it, similarly a SCH will know which pet abilities to use and where to place it for maximum effect.

I will however slightly lean towards sch on being a little more difficult only because of ultimate content that tends to push them a little due to their party mitigation kit and how fast it comes back up. Depending on how you setup your key binds, playing sch can feel like a piano sometimes.

From personal experience, both classes have fairly high skill ceilings.

AST: Knowledge of your arcana is important and how they work with other classes to get the most out of your cards. We have lots of fun CDs that can be used often and don't always have to be saved for "osht" moments. Our newer minor arcana gives us a bit more to do and helps a ton with top-decking or dead draws. Versatility means we work well with ANY healer, even other ASTs!

SCH: Understanding how to manage Lily, when to use her Eos over Selene (I really love the silence and SUPER appreciate having it,) and how/when to position her properly is the most rewarding part of SCH for me! I am NOT a fan of leaving her to her own devices since she's a bit trigger happy. SCH also needs to take note of more resources than the other healers and I feel like this is the highest skill cap healer in the game; though not saying it's the hardest by any means. They work wonderfully with WHM and AST but when you overlap with other SCH it can feel clunky without proper communication.

The best thing to do in my opinion is to get 'em both to 70 so you can see the full kit in action! Good news is that the gear overlaps except for weapons so you needn't worry about one falling to far behind the other!

AST is better since we have cards, tell fortunes, and get really amazing pointy hats. That's just science tho.