Did the devs explicitly mention that BLU can't raid?

I've done a lot of thinking about the state of BLU's implementation since the live letter, and I just realised something. Raid is typically done via the PF or as a preformed static. Does that mean that as a preformed group, BLU can indeed enter raids?

The devs have said that BLU is designed for solo play and not party content, but the devs have held a very "player choice" attitude towards raiding for a while now, letting players have any composition they want, and punishing them less for it. I feel like so long as you aren't looking for a group in raid finder, BLU raiding is ok?

Even if this isn't the case, I feel like it will be in the future (especially with the community outcry), leaving only matchmaking, and content where BLUs systems are incompatible (PVP and deep dungeon) as inaccessible.


Edit: Yes I know they are capped at 50, but this is more thinking about when they raise the level cap, do you think they will allow preformed parties to use it for current content, much like how you can go into older extreme primals in the trailer.

They can run old, outdated raids. Since the design of blue mage is that it will be a soloist job and not suited to groups, there is little reason to believe that will ever change for them. There is ample reason to believe the alternative, that it will be locked out of challenging content forever.

Keep in mind that they brought up a specific scenario of the Blue Mage casting Lv5 Death on a raid boss being a reason why they couldn't implement it as a normal job.

The only reason they would change it is if we ask them to.

It can enter raid of the BLU level range. 4.5 he will be able to do BCoB and Crystal tower if he have a party for it.

He won't be able to enter any omega raid nor the future one before he get his level decap and hit the said level.

They said many of the blue spell are just completely unbalanced and unfair, the raid boss will more likely get his ass handed to himself even in synch' party if a BLU is part of the dance.

Not explicitly no.
But they did say it would start at 50 and the cap would slowly raise through patches.
Combined with the balance issues they discussed I suspect it will never be high enough level to participate in current content. Or will only hit the current level cap at the very end of an expansion to avoid it affecting the world first races.

They explicitly stated BLU can't make use of any matchmaking but it can enter duties as a preformed party. They made a comment about how it wouldn't be fun to take a BLU with Lv 5 death into alphascape and having an instant win so there's an implication it won't be able to raid. There's also the lv 50 cap which may prevent it from being able to go into an end game raid for now.

My suspicion is that a premade could do something like Coils with Blu though. Maybe unsync HW trials/raids too.

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Originally Posted by Zakon

The only reason they would change it is if we ask them to.

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Which I could see happening tbh, the justification for most content is rational. PVP and Deep dungeon make the most sense, since they use separate system for allocating new skills to the job. Matchmaking also makes sense, since you are being paired with random people, and toxicity would be quite high (though they are only dungeons, so I could see this being relaxed in the future, especially for pre-lvl 50). Raiding however, is entirely preformed, so it meets the standards of allowing BLU to enter.

I imagine there will be an introductory period in which BLU is tested with a lower level cap, which will be raised once the devs have gathered feedback, and tested the balance of the job, and once they are satisfied, they will open the job up to raiding for preformed parties.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I imagine there will be an introductory period in which BLU is tested with a lower level cap, which will be raised once the devs have gathered feedback, and tested the balance of the job, and once they are satisfied, they will open the job up to raiding for preformed parties.

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They specifically stated otherwise. This is not an introductory period, this is a brand new system called a "limited job" that is designed for solo play. Their intention with Blue Mage is not to make it playable in group content, their intention is to make a job that does not fit in an MMORPG under normal circumstances. Their intent is to eventually add other requested jobs which they don't feel fit in an MMORPG for whatever arbitrary reason.

They mentioned Beastmaster as one such job, since it uses pets. But other MMORPGs have included pet jobs which tame their pets out in the wild. I mean the most notable example of this is the Hunter in World of Warcraft.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Which I could see happening tbh, the justification for most content is rational. PVP and Deep dungeon make the most sense, since they use separate system for allocating new skills to the job. Matchmaking also makes sense, since you are being paired with random people, and toxicity would be quite high (though they are only dungeons, so I could see this being relaxed in the future, especially for pre-lvl 50). Raiding however, is entirely preformed, so it meets the standards of allowing BLU to enter.

I imagine there will be an introductory period in which BLU is tested with a lower level cap, which will be raised once the devs have gathered feedback, and tested the balance of the job, and once they are satisfied, they will open the job up to raiding for preformed parties.

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He's not mean to be balanced for party content and won't be, they REALLY insisted on the fact its a solo balanced job who don't have any place in a party.

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Originally Posted by Zakon

They specifically stated otherwise. This is not an introductory period, this is a brand new system called a "limited job" that is designed for solo play.

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See, this Yoshi P talking, so we need to read between the lines. Remember he said "We said that BLU does not fit into XIVs system, but we didn't say we wouldn't add it", and "We said that adding a new job during a patch would be too much work, but we didn't say we wouldn't do it".

We have two pieces of information, which is what BLU is designed for, and what it can and cannot do. One of those pieces of information is that BLU can do most instanced content as a pre-formed party, and a lot of the justification for locking it out of matchmaking and special battle content makes sense, raids not so much.

Also ask yourself, why didn't they just wait until the expansion? New jobs are used to sell expansions, so why are they adding BLU in 4.5 with no expansion requirement? The answer would be the same as why they added custom deliveries in 3.5, to test the waters with a new experimental feature to expand upon it in the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

See, this Yoshi P talking, so we need to read between the lines. Remember he said "We said that BLU does not fit into XIVs system, but we didn't say we wouldn't add it", and "We said that adding a new job during a patch would be too much work, but we didn't say we wouldn't do it".

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Nothing he said here contradicts their stated goal with Blue Mage.

They didn't think Blue Mage would fit into XIV's system... so they made a special system designed specifically for them, separate from the other jobs. A "limited job" that is designed for solo play.

They never said they wouldn't add another job mid-expansion since it was so difficult, so they didn't. They added a minigame dressed up as a job. It didn't take dev time or balancing because it isn't designed to play like other jobs or be balanced to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

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They didn't made a years of developement to release BLU as what it is to just rework it afterward, especially when they insisted that much on how it work so differently than other job.

Xpc do have other job to sell + a new race.

They need a content to push people to play until xpac release and lets be honest Eureka don't do that very well.

You really have to ear that BLU don't work like any other job and have his own meaning outside of teamplay to understand "Limited job" is just a side feature barely releated to the main dish that are the other not limited job and instances.

They could have made it work like every other job without any trouble, but they'll loose the blue mage vibe they want him to have in the process. They created a whole new feature for him (and maybe other job in the future) called Limited job for him to express the whole blue mage potential they wanted him to have. Like it or leave it. I'm leaving it.

They could've just said,"There's just so many skills to add, we need to take our time adding them in," and It would have gone over much better.

Personally I wouldn't mind learning a whole bunch of skills, then having a bunch restricted when going into group content so the broken ones aren't breaking things with the excuse of friendly fire.

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Originally Posted by Nariel

They didn't made a years of developement to release BLU as what it is to just rework it afterward, especially when they insisted that much on how it work so differently than other job.

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I get this would make them incredibly reluctant to. But if Blue Mage is so poorly received in its existing state, they may choose to, otherwise, that year's work will have been wasted regardless, in which case there would be an incentive to salvage it. But at the same time, there has been waste in Diadem and Eurka, which had potential but were poorly received and just need reworking in the right way to gain people's interest, they tried it with Diadem and still didn't get it right and I do not yet know if Eureka improved in later versions as I could not put myself through more endless FATE trains.

But I am in mixed minds about Blue Mage because I love what they've come up with as the job, but I just hope they don't mess it up. I can live with not having duty finder access, but my biggest concern with it is that it becomes side content, which SE has a poor track record for, see: Diadem & Eureka. If they can make it worthwhile, fantastic. But they've not been explicit on what group content will be available to a Blue Mage, whilst I expect on content stuff is unlikely, but I think I might not mind so much if Blue Mage ended up a patch behind, where the last patch content is still relevent, but not the focus.

It's possible the level cap is actually to do with them having to "retrofit" existing monsters Lv1-70 to work with the blue mage system. But for monsters created now, it will be programmed in from the start, and blue mage might level equally with everything else once it's caught up.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

It's possible the level cap is actually to do with them having to "retrofit" existing monsters Lv1-70 to work with the blue mage system. But for monsters created now, it will be programmed in from the start, and blue mage might level equally with everything else once it's caught up.

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Given their insistence that this is a new job type and not an adjustment period, I think this is a dangerous hope for people to cling to. I'm not saying they can't - I'm the WoL (until they flip my goth switch in 6 mo) so I encourage hope as a matter of course - but that sort of "clearly what they said isn't what they mean and THIS is what they mean" has already caused a lot of people a lot of heartache. Sure, they've gone back on their stated purpose before, but to plan for that as a matter of course, well...

It might change, but so far they've actively said it won't. People should certainly ask for changes if they want them but expecting them as a matter of course is, imho, a recipe for disaster.

the question is, will it eventually be able to do POTD and what will it's effect on soloing it be?

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Originally Posted by UnstablePersonality

the question is, will it eventually be able to do POTD and what will it's effect on soloing it be?

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I imagine any new PotD that comes out in 5.0 will be designed with BLU in mind. The reason it can't do current PotD is because the two systems are incompatible (because PotD is based around skills gained at certain levels).

This could be retroactive as well, but I wouldn't expect it until new 5.0 content comes out

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I imagine any new PotD that comes out in 5.0 will be designed with BLU in mind. The reason it can't do current PotD is because the two systems are incompatible (because PotD is based around skills gained at certain levels).

This could be retroactive as well, but I wouldn't expect it until new 5.0 content comes out

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I thought it couldn't do current PotD because PotD is capped at 60?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I thought it couldn't do current PotD because PotD is capped at 60?

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PotD can be started from 17, the dungeon system itself caps you at 60. It's all part of the two systems not working together very well from a technical standpoint. Though like I said, this could retroactively change.

I dont believe that they will be available for current raids. First we dont know if they even reach max level in the expansion. They only said that they will increase his level over the 5.x patches which could mean that he can be only 70 at the end. This makes sense if they dont want him in current content. If they dont balance him now why should they do that in the future? And if you have no balance then a Blue with all his skills would mess up current raids.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

Given their insistence that this is a new job type and not an adjustment period, I think this is a dangerous hope for people to cling to. I'm not saying they can't - I'm the WoL (until they flip my goth switch in 6 mo) so I encourage hope as a matter of course - but that sort of "clearly what they said isn't what they mean and THIS is what they mean" has already caused a lot of people a lot of heartache. Sure, they've gone back on their stated purpose before, but to plan for that as a matter of course, well...

It might change, but so far they've actively said it won't. People should certainly ask for changes if they want them but expecting them as a matter of course is, imho, a recipe for disaster.

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It's not a "hope I'm clinging to", it's just an observation. It's a weird independent system that needs to be set up and operates outside of the rest of the game, but it still seems strange to have its own designated level cap forevermore instead of planning to eventually bring it in line with the other classes. For the sake of neatness if nothing else.

It just seems equally logical that the slow start might be because they have to set things up along the way.

Then again, if they're serious about not letting blue mages into Alphascape because they might successfully cast Lv5 Death on the bosses... who knows?

(Maybe future bosses will be immune. Or maybe they'll just all have prime-number levels or something.)

i have the feeling that once blue hits level 80 the High-end duty finder will be completely unusable to them to lock them out of end-game raids

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I imagine any new PotD that comes out in 5.0 will be designed with BLU in mind. The reason it can't do current PotD is because the two systems are incompatible (because PotD is based around skills gained at certain levels).

This could be retroactive as well, but I wouldn't expect it until new 5.0 content comes out

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Who is to say the skills you get from enemies won't be leveled locked still? (Hell they already technically are because Shiva, I doubt you can enter Shiva in any form below 50)

This may have been stated already, so I apologize if I am repeating what someone else said.

I was at fanfest and I was present for the Keynote and the Letter from the Producer: Live! events. They never said BLU can't raid. BLUs can participate in parties, and they can gain abilities from mobs while in parties. However, when 4.5 comes out, they are going to be capped at 50, for the time being. So they can participate in any raids where the level cap is 50, but over time they will raise the level cap on BLU.

Basically, they implemented this as soon as they could, and so, instead of getting a fully finished job class, we are getting the beginnings of a job class. For now. Once they finish working out the details of how the job will function at 60 and 70, I'm sure they will increase the level cap.

Blue Mage can still raid, it just might be limited in what abilities it can use while in the raid. As Yoshi-P said, having a BLU in a raid and allowing it to use Level 5 Death on a level 70 Ultima would be ridiculously over-powered. BLUs will not be allowed to one-shot bosses, lol.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Also ask yourself, why didn't they just wait until the expansion? New jobs are used to sell expansions, so why are they adding BLU in 4.5 with no expansion requirement? The answer would be the same as why they added custom deliveries in 3.5, to test the waters with a new experimental feature to expand upon it in the expansion.

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Because they've consistently seen the largest drop of subs between this point and the expansion. 4.5 onwards has been a massive dry period since they have very little content to offer over an extended patch cycle. Blue Mage is simply there to help mitigate that loss, though unless the updates come fast, I suspect most people will be done with it in a week or so. As for Custom Deliveries, they did precisely the same thing: releasing Zhloe in 3.55a. It turned out to be nothing more than a glorified turn in system that saw no changes whatsoever throughout Stormblood. Ironically, one could argue Custom Deliveries replaced Beast Tribes in Stormblood given only the Namazu had any real relevance due to the lack of a relic outside Eureka.

There isn't a hidden meaning here nor is this a beta test. It's simply SE trying to keep people subscribed over the next seven months when outside of Blue Mage, all they have to offer is a 24 Man, an EX Primal and Eureka for long term content.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Because they've consistently seen the largest drop of subs between this point and the expansion. 4.5 onwards has been a massive dry period since they have very little content to offer over an extended patch cycle. Blue Mage is simply there to help mitigate that loss, though unless the updates come fast, I suspect most people will be done with it in a week or so. As for Custom Deliveries, they did precisely the same thing: releasing Zhloe in 3.55a. It turned out to be nothing more than a glorified turn in system that saw no changes whatsoever throughout Stormblood. Ironically, one could argue Custom Deliveries replaced Beast Tribes in Stormblood given only the Namazu had any real relevance due to the lack of a relic outside Eureka.

There isn't a hidden meaning here nor is this a beta test. It's simply SE trying to keep people subscribed over the next seven months when outside of Blue Mage, all they have to offer is a 24 Man, an EX Primal and Eureka for long term content.

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Precisely, there's probably a reason why Mr Atma was on the design team for BLU and that's because of the RNG factor of learning spells, something that wasn't apart of classic BLU, you either learned the spell or you died to it. By making it RNG and having them in the 1-50 zones is to cover two things. 1 to keep people subbed during the fall off period aka Padding content and 2. To have people in the 1-50 zones. Something SE get a lot of flack for by new players who think the game is dead because there is no one around in said zones.

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Originally Posted by Zakon

Keep in mind that they brought up a specific scenario of the Blue Mage casting Lv5 Death on a raid boss being a reason why they couldn't implement it as a normal job.

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that's lame excuse, since most raid bosses are immune to most status effects anyway.
but maybe the purpose of BLU is for people to easily do outdated content, like farming BCoB, EX primals, and such.
myself i didn't bother farming EX mounts and such before, but now i can solo EX primals with my warrior, so maybe BLU will just be an easier/faster method of doing stuff like that.
Or it will be an easier way for new people to quickly go through all that content for story purpose and what-not - which is nice, except for people who have been waiting for years for BLU main.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

i have the feeling that once blue hits level 80 the High-end duty finder will be completely unusable to them to lock them out of end-game raids

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they will be lv 80, when expansion 7.0 comes, and everyone else is lv 100 :p

Man, imagine trying to do the Crystal Tower Raids as Blue Mage.

I hope you know 23 other people that want to do it.

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Originally Posted by Radacci

that's lame excuse, since most raid bosses are immune to most status effects anyway.

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Level 5 death is instant death, doom would be a status effect.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Level 5 death is instant death, doom would be a status effect.

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Well, to be fair, we have Phoenix Downs in this game and can't instant kill zombies with them. I'm sure they could come up with a way to prevent the usage of that spell in an instance.

Or just, y'know, omit Level 5 Death from BLU's skillset.

Which mobs use level 5 death and how Do you form a full alliance of 23 people Outside of the duty finder?

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Originally Posted by Krokov

Which mobs use level 5 death and how Do you form a full alliance of 23 people Outside of the duty finder?

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You can actually make alliance parties in party finder. It's how my FC unsyncs CT & VA.

Yeah, the first time I did Crystal Tower and Shadows of Mhach was an unsynced PF after I caught up to Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Krokov

Which mobs use level 5 death and how Do you form a full alliance of 23 people Outside of the duty finder?

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Pretty sure The Page 64 enemy in gubal library uses lvl 5 death.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...level_5_death/

Now whether or not a lvl 50 can go in there is a different story.

I sort of imagine BLU will always be sort of behind on levels which will make them nonviable for raiding just statistically.
Their limitation on doing group content is just need to premade though so i guess we'll see when it gets to that point?

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

See, this Yoshi P talking, so we need to read between the lines. Remember he said "We said that BLU does not fit into XIVs system, but we didn't say we wouldn't add it", and "We said that adding a new job during a patch would be too much work, but we didn't say we wouldn't do it".

We have two pieces of information, which is what BLU is designed for, and what it can and cannot do. One of those pieces of information is that BLU can do most instanced content as a pre-formed party, and a lot of the justification for locking it out of matchmaking and special battle content makes sense, raids not so much.

Also ask yourself, why didn't they just wait until the expansion? New jobs are used to sell expansions, so why are they adding BLU in 4.5 with no expansion requirement? The answer would be the same as why they added custom deliveries in 3.5, to test the waters with a new experimental feature to expand upon it in the expansion.

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Yoshi P does not give bonus content ever, what he does is say we are working on it please look forward to it and then you never see it or you see it 3-4 years later. Sooooooooo yeah you read through those lines and 3-4 years later you will finally get it when everyone has forgotten about it or you will just never see it. They didn't add it to test the waters, they added it to stave off pre-expansion boredom and because it's designed for force you to do their old world content making it look like it's not dead. I suspect they will fail on both accounts as atma the minigame sounds ghastly and it will only keep the world looking alive for like maybe a month. So yeah, lets revisit this in 3-4 years and see if they are just testing it for later.

You cannot use it in endgame content or any content that is not unsyncable. Also you cannot use it in the DF. Which mean all groups asking for lvl 50 content and below for Blue mage.

It is unbalanced for group play.

If they ever do put it as a job that is unlimited, they would nerf most if not all of its abilities.