Is special task force exists?

Hello Eorzeans.
It's been almost 9-10 months since we were fighting against radar users and still fighting with them with my friends.

First of all, I want to start about the situation in general: we're a small group of hunters. We're hunting S ranks; we spawn them literally 24/7. We were sharing S hunts with the server untill the moment, when people became aggressive towards us. another small group of "hunters" have started to follow us with radars(they never tried to spawn something, only tracking and following or afk in the area, calling us "slaves"), to have an anfair advantage and pull S hunts instantly, make a part of our group miss S hunts and cause people' anger against hunters(us). we were persecuted, insulted and humiliated after every S hunt by "hunters" during 7 months. After tons of our reports to GMs( about all humiliations with proves and timings), to STF(about using the-third party program), we've not received any changes.

The problem "was solved" when they posted a video with OBVIOUS humiliations of our group on YouTube. BUT only one guy get 9 days ban for posting this video. 1 more player didn't get any thing, transferred on another server and renamed his character(THIS player was using radar, chasing us, tracking us, humiliated us everyday, insulted my friends in shout chat and tried to cause public hatred MOST OF TIME, more, than player, who posted the video). Next, after 9 days, they all transferred on another server and changed their nicknames. After that, my friend sent a huge report with all proves and timings again, for those who tried to escape punishment by transfer. It didn't work of course. So now they're "happily building their new life on another server, like nothing happened". Our group was in shock, depressed for a while, after everything, what happened.

We felt a little relief, but not for a long.
It keeps happening for 2 months, but now by another players with radars. Those ones don't insult us, but following and tracking us everywhere again with their radars, doing nothing to try to spawn, but "sitting on our necks", stand AFK on the areas, waiting us to spawn for them. (we checked one "radar user's" behaviour on Bonnacon node. we stayed there, on node, ready to gather, but we didn't gather even after the end of time for node, this player was still in front of us, waiting us to gather, jumping around and watching(he didn't try to gather). I tried to report this, + how he instantly followed me on another location...it didn't work too. Next similar reports don't work too). If we're together with my hunter-friends - they instantly follow us in the same area with their radars turned on, to detect hunt fast and make a hit for achievement. Even happened another thing - when we gather to do some map, we teleported to area. And you know what? "Chaser with radar" has come instant to us and then teleported away instantly. Of course we're keep reporting them for using the-third party program, endless chasing. Again with proves and timings and again nothing works. Like STF/GMs don't exist.

How many proves we need to gather to make STF notice this big problem like "radar using to get an anfair advantage"?

You have to PROVE they are using it. And the only way for that to happen is if they say something in game. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You have to PROVE they are using it. And the only way for that to happen is if they say something in game. Sorry.

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What interesting - one of them say that. Like "It's easier turn it on and follow you 24/7"
But literally strange - how to prove chasing throw chat log, if full silence.

What is radar -- some 3rd party app?

some software that reads the client info, telling you where hunts are, or other things...

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Originally Posted by Ashpd

What interesting - one of them say that. Like "It's easier turn it on and follow you 24/7"
But literally strange - how to prove chasing throw chat log, if full silence.

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If they are silent you can't prove it, so there's nothing you can do, and nothing the GMs can do. Teleporting to the same map as you is not a crime and neither is standing in front of a node.

Realistically the only thing you can do is ask (nicely) if they can wait for more people to come before pulling and do not taunt them even if they say no. The only thing that makes a hunt trolling problem worse is frustrated people tauning the troll, that just encourages that behavior, they will keep doing it just to get a reaction from you.

I think it's been determined at this point that the STF are relying on tools that can only detect abnormalities that are recognizable at a server-side level, such as the teleport hacks used by the gil farming bots. Things like the sniffer app and "normal" bots are not going to show on their radar, which is why they seriously need to get a team that actually polices suspected cheaters in person.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

You have to PROVE they are using it. And the only way for that to happen is if they say something in game. Sorry.

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Not necessarily.

There are also people on my server who repeatedly will just linger in zone if they see that me or others are trying to spawn something and they'll immediately call the S rank the instant it spawns even if they're nowhere near it (Which usually results in tons of people missing it if they aren't already in zone when it happens).

They could determine they're doing something unusual if they were to simply observe them for a short time prior to hunts with a predictable spawn time like, say, Laideronette. Though I doubt they'd actually want to put in that level of effort (Despite it being standardfare in other MMOs).

I heard on this coming patch of Eureka Pyros, they're going to start letting you purchase Armor/Accessory upgrade mats using Centurio Hunt marks.

They historically haven't offered that option until the next major patch after a raid releases.

I'm also not sure what it has to do with people using third party apps to be a nuisance, though hunting in general tends to become a lot less civil once Centurio Seals become needed for something other then materia.

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Originally Posted by Ashpd

The problem "was solved" when they posted a video with OBVIOUS humiliations of our group on YouTube. BUT only one guy get 9 days ban for posting this video.

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How do you know for sure that's what happened? That would go against "SE doesn't accept outside sources".

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Originally Posted by Ashpd

How many proves we need to gather to make STF notice this big problem like "radar using to get an anfair advantage"?

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Don't bother with the STF. About the only thing they do is deal with those RMT bots with gibberish names. They can't detect hunt radar (or anything else really) so you'd have to submit proof to the GMs. Contact a GM in game and ask what proof you would need or explain the situation and ask what you can do. If they redirect you to file reports to the STF, ignore that, since as you've seen, it's a waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Dirt-Muppet

What is radar -- some 3rd party app?

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You know how monsters only load in as you get close to them? S ranks don't require you to be near and will load in once they spawn and are visible from anywhere in the map. The third-party apps are able to detect the S rank being loaded and provide a signal to the user. A prank that used to be done was to rename your chocobo to that of a hunt, summon it and watch as the radar users would rush to your location.

One of the first searches of hunt radar gives you another forum thread:
Radar for hunts, is this fair? Take a look.

That's over four years old. It was closed within 12 hours of being opened with the generic "report to the STF for further investigation" comment. Since then, has SE done anything to prevent the use of radar or change hunts so they can't make use of them? No. Hence, the Devs don't care.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I think it's been determined at this point that the STF are relying on tools that can only detect abnormalities that are recognizable at a server-side level, such as the teleport hacks used by the gil farming bots. Things like the sniffer app and "normal" bots are not going to show on their radar, which is why they seriously need to get a team that actually polices suspected cheaters in person.



Not necessarily.

There are also people on my server who repeatedly will just linger in zone if they see that me or others are trying to spawn something and they'll immediately call the S rank the instant it spawns even if they're nowhere near it (Which usually results in tons of people missing it if they aren't already in zone when it happens).

They could determine they're doing something unusual if they were to simply observe them for a short time prior to hunts with a predictable spawn time like, say, Laideronette. Though I doubt they'd actually want to put in that level of effort (Despite it being standardfare in other MMOs).

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Most other MMOs don't have 60+ servers each with thousands of people though, it's a bit unreasonable to expect them to focus on one or two specific players when this isn't exactly a game breaking issue to begin with.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Most other MMOs don't have 60+ servers each with thousands of people though, it's a bit unreasonable to expect them to focus on one or two specific players when this isn't exactly a game breaking issue to begin with.

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If a comparably large game like WoW can keep their botting/cheating issues under control for the most part, I fail to see why XIV can't.

Also, the sniffer app leaks information on more then just S rank locations and is used more extensively then you might think.

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Originally Posted by Vnolan

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Last I had heard, the really popular hunt tracker (required you to be within a certain distance of an A rank before telling you where it was - anyone also using the client would also receive this information; S ranks were echoed as soon as they spawned if you were on the map) simply doesn't work anymore. It's been years since it was last updated - the person who worked on it now works for Discord and can't update both. The other tracker (far less popular) allowed you to see barely ahead of where you could see in game. It also couldn't tell the difference between a chocobo named after a hunt and the actual hunt.

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Originally Posted by RareItems

I heard on this coming patch of Eureka Pyros, they're going to start letting you purchase Armor/Accessory upgrade mats using Centurio Hunt marks.

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If you mean for this new raid tier, it's entirely too soon for this.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

Last I had heard, the really popular hunt tracker (required you to be within a certain distance of an A rank before telling you where it was - anyone also using the client would also receive this information; S ranks were echoed as soon as they spawned if you were on the map) simply doesn't work anymore. It's been years since it was last updated - the person who worked on it now works for Discord and can't update both. The other tracker (far less popular) allowed you to see barely ahead of where you could see in game. It also couldn't tell the difference between a chocobo named after a hunt and the actual hunt.

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The former tracker seems to have been revived by someone because certain individuals on Cactaur regularly call the locations of S ranks the instant they spawn even if they're nowhere near the thing and I'm only the one present at the hunt (Which rules out the possibility of it being relayed to them from someone else).

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't accomplish anything other then allowing unscrupulous hunters quicker access to the locations of hunts. We try to round up people who are actively involved in spawning hunts prior to opening the floodgates and letting everyone else know about them because it seems only fair, but this is throwing a wrench in that idea.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The former tracker seems to have been revived by someone because certain individuals on Cactaur regularly call the locations of S ranks the instant they spawn even if they're nowhere near the thing and I'm only the one present at the hunt (Which rules out the possibility of it being relayed to them from someone else).

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't accomplish anything other then allowing unscrupulous hunters quicker access to the locations of hunts. We try to round up people who are actively involved in spawning hunts prior to opening the floodgates and letting everyone else know about them because it seems only fair, but this is throwing a wrench in that idea.

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It wasn't resurrected, but I found there is another one that functions similarly to it. However, people posted that it brings up a virus prompt, so I assumed it was just a front to just get players' information. Apparently, it does work. Reading about on it, it still functions exactly like the other - needs to be within a certain distance of the A rank and within the same map as the S rank (you can spot a lot of the S ranks from quite a huge distance away) and anyone with the client also gets these notifications. So, that stinks.

Unless they state, or otherwise hint, they are using a third party application within the game, there's no way to report players and have disciplinary action taken against them.

I feel like the fact that they're seemingly psychic and consistently know where the S ranks are immediately could be considered a "hint", personally, probably moreso then anything they actually say in chat short of openly admitting using some kind of program.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

It wasn't resurrected, but I found there is another one that functions similarly to it. However, people posted that it brings up a virus prompt, so I assumed it was just a front to just get players' information. Apparently, it does work. Reading about on it, it still functions exactly like the other - needs to be within a certain distance of the A rank and within the same map as the S rank (you can spot a lot of the S ranks from quite a huge distance away) and anyone with the client also gets these notifications. So, that stinks.

Unless they state, or otherwise hint, they are using a third party application within the game, there's no way to report players and have disciplinary action taken against them.

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The program you're all talking about basically works like a Hunt LS:

When one person with it gets in range of a Hunt, it sends a message to everyone saying what and where. The only difference I've seen is that the detection range is bigger than render distance, which is ultimately not that big of a deal.

A Hunt tracker program isn't the problem. The problem is jerk players. Just like parsers and everything else.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

If a comparably large game like WoW can keep their botting/cheating issues under control for the most part, I fail to see why XIV can't.

Also, the sniffer app leaks information on more then just S rank locations and is used more extensively then you might think.

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That's a completely different scenario. Bots aren't much of an issue (not non-existent, mind you) because the WoW token exists, whether people want to hear it or not the token takes away customers from chinese gold sellers since people would rather do it through a sanctioned and safe system. Something like these hunt programs in WoW would likely be considered an addon, so it would fall out of the scope of cheating. A lot of the addons in WoW would be considered unfair advantage here if done through a third party app.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

The former tracker seems to have been revived by someone because certain individuals on Cactaur regularly call the locations of S ranks the instant they spawn even if they're nowhere near the thing and I'm only the one present at the hunt (Which rules out the possibility of it being relayed to them from someone else).

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't accomplish anything other then allowing unscrupulous hunters quicker access to the locations of hunts. We try to round up people who are actively involved in spawning hunts prior to opening the floodgates and letting everyone else know about them because it seems only fair, but this is throwing a wrench in that idea.

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Note that even the parser people here use has a plugin for hunting, as well as voiced hunt callouts.

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Originally Posted by JunseiKei

It wasn't resurrected, but I found there is another one that functions similarly to it. However, people posted that it brings up a virus prompt, so I assumed it was just a front to just get players' information. Apparently, it does work. Reading about on it, it still functions exactly like the other - needs to be within a certain distance of the A rank and within the same map as the S rank (you can spot a lot of the S ranks from quite a huge distance away) and anyone with the client also gets these notifications. So, that stinks.

Unless they state, or otherwise hint, they are using a third party application within the game, there's no way to report players and have disciplinary action taken against them.

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I was reading a bit about the new one and it seems like the project is open source. Whether people verified it to make sure it's not stealing data is another thing.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

The program you're all talking about basically works like a Hunt LS:

When one person with it gets in range of a Hunt, it sends a message to everyone saying what and where. The only difference I've seen is that the detection range is bigger than render distance, which is ultimately not that big of a deal.

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I'm aware.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

A Hunt tracker program isn't the problem. The problem is jerk players. Just like parsers and everything else.

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Well, that's starting to become an opinion on the use of third party programs and the willful cherry-picking of rules to be followed and rules to be ignored. We all know third party programs are against the ToS, so by default, as well as parsers, they are against the rules. That's a whole other discussion on its own. Vicariously, there's nothing against the rules about people coming over and pulling an open world monster as soon as they see it, but people want to continue to report it like it is an infraction of the ToS. That's not even getting into perspectives of "do I value another person's time over my own" and other nit-picking opinions that conflict with social unwritten rules.

My main beef with the sniffer apps is that they're really crossing into the "blatant cheating" territory by giving their users information they were never meant to know that also gives them a huge advantage over other players in a free-for-all environment where people aren't wanting to share hunts.

It's not too bad in small maps like Upper La Noscea that can be covered quickly or wide open ones where you can easily spot the S ranks from afar like Western La Noscea, but for huge zones like East Shroud and Coerthas Central Highlands that are big and filled with clutter that makes the S ranks difficult to spot, it can be hellish.