How can we make XIV feel more "RPG-ish"?

1. What, among things that could one-day be integrated into XIV, makes something feel like an RPG to you?

2. Are there any storytelling advantages to the MMO model?

3. (Referring to #1) What are the benefits and disadvantages to these potential additions?

4. How would you like the storytelling and player experience to change with later expansions? What concessions towards your vision, or similar improvements, do you think might actually occur?

1: More choices. For instance when we do something like doman reconstruction, let us choose how things are done, don't let them give us a choice like "a statue or a lighthouse" and then only actually have 1 outcome.

2: There are lots of advantages to an mmo since you have expacs. Every one should focus on its own thing so we get overarching world lore where lots of different cultures and civilizations could be added, again I will say it, enough with Ascians and the Empire. Been doing it since 2010, move on.

3: advantages is ppl feel like they have influence and you could seen change in the world based on your own choices instead of having everything just like everyone elses. disadvantages are just that they could only limit it to certain things, like doman reconstruction, since it would be different for everyone it couldn't effect the overarching story without them putting more work into splitting storylines.

4: I would just like them to stick to one story. No more SB nonsense of "let's free Ala Mhigo as fast as we can so we can get to Doma" It destroyed both stories imo. Esp the long anticipated Ala Mhigo emancipation just so they could stuff something Japanese in.

When you level up a class and learn something, you should be able to use that on any other class.
Maybe to prevent over-levelling they should put in some sort of fatigue system so your exp earned will drop as you continue to level up.
To enrich the overworld, seamless zones without zone lines, transitioning from one part to the next by just going there. See something interesting in the background? You can go there.
To keep said overworld interesting it'll have to be dangerous. Slap some level 99 mobs in places you want players to tread carefully.
Dungeons would need some work. Branching paths, multiple optional bosses, and maybe a time trail to incorporate better rewards at the end.
Tell the story through full motion capture cutscenes, none of this emote and talk and walk away stuff we got now.
Also let's give the player some weight behind their motions and movement. None of this stopping on a dime and flipping around like it's nothing.
Crank up the graphics, I want to see a flower pot have as many polygons as a player model.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

<1.x jokes>

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Damn, I'd completely forgotten 1.x used motion capture for some of its cutscenes...

they actually still use motion capturing now. Mostly for combat animations though, but Lyse and Fordola having that short duel in Rhalgr's Reach was one example.

I'm a roleplayer, so for me... so in that aspect, the biggest answer of it all is this: more customization.

1) XIV's character creation screen at first glance looks like a feast for someone like me that came from the limited WoW one. But shortly then you'll realize XIV's is also pretty limited too. The only thing it has in abundance is the skin/hair color palette and hairstyle options. Adding a couple of new faces and features would be nice, but only would be effective so far. The best course of action would be an overhaul to the character models and let us having sliders everywhere, something like GW2 presents already. This would proporcionate players to create really unique faces.

2) XIV's dye system is a bit weird. I'm fine with the number of dyes available, but the problem lies within the dye channels. With just 1 channel, you'll either find armor sets with just tiny parts of it that are dyeable, or on contrary, armors that are completely washed over the color, giving that gaudy photoshop-like color wash effect. XIV got hundreds of different armor sets, and it would be too taxing to "fix" them all with new dye channels, but this would be something the developers could work in future sets.


Now regarding just the RPG aspect of the game, I have some inputs on how it would make it more immersive:

1) XIV's capitals and the loading screens sort of set me off them being a really populated and busy location. I wonder if would be possible, at least there, to make it one huge zone without them, like they did with Kugane. The hingan capital might feel smaller than Eorzea's but it def. feels more alive and busy.

2) Squeenix investing a bigger budget to voice acting. I find really odd that even in the MSQ, some parts lack voice acting at all, just to a few scenes later bam... voice acting all of sudden happens. Also bring voice acting to the dungeon NPCs. Nothing worse than wanting to read a dialogue, but there is action happening at the same time, and in XIV you - need - to have your eyes glued on the encounters. The dreaded pre-HW MSQ times would be much less of a drag with voice acting.

3) Class/Job quests designed with a bit more thought. Honestly, post ARR, most of them are really bland because they seem to be designed without much complexity in mind. Give us job quests outside of just leveling and gaining new skills. Optional job quests with the content patches to develop the characters, to unlock a new emote, anything to make me feel more immersed in my job. And please, give voice acting to them, they are important, your job is how your character adventures in the world.

4) Introduce more Warriors of Light NPCs with powers equal of yours. Every plot seems to gravitate around yourself being the "only hope". While it's nice being the center of attention, it gets old a bit fast. How I wish they'd make Arenvald as powerful as yourself so it would be more of a equality relationship rather than a dependency one.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

1. What, among things that could one-day be integrated into XIV, makes something feel like an RPG to you?
3. (Referring to #1) What are the benefits and disadvantages to these potential additions?

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The most obvious way is to give meaningful choices to players. As it is now, the story is very linear. On some occasions you get to choose how your character responds, but that only affects the next line for the NPC you're talking with. The most drastic consequence is that the conversation ends and you have to try again. At times it even feels more like an interactive movie. That's not necessarily a bad thing, mind you; it's just not very RPG-like.

However there's a very good reason why most computer RPGs and especially online ones are more or less linear. Computers lack imagination so a human has to think up consequences for every possible player choice. Those consequences lead to other choices and so on, and the number of branches will quickly get out of hand. What if I decided to not join the Scions and instead to become a mercenary? What if I thought the Ishgardian nobility is not worth dealing with and instead snuck into the observatory and stole the records needed to locate the Enterprise? What if I decided rescuing the Scions from the Imperial castrum was too risky and abandoned them to their fates? These and many other possible player choices would have long-term consequences which would affect the game's development for years to come. Each parallel storyline takes resources, which means that they will be shorter.

Single-player computer RPGs can get away with moderately branching storylines to an extent, because they tend to be one-shot releases. The player plays through the story, maybe replays it a few times to see the other endings, and that's it. There's no need to maintain the storylines. If a sequel is made, one of the original game's endings can be declared canonical and built upon in the next game. Mut in MMORPGs the same world and the same story is often maintained for years or even decades, so it won't do to just abandon some branches.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

2. Are there any storytelling advantages to the MMO model?

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I can't think of any. From a pure storytelling perspective the MMO model is more of a detriment. Besides forcing the story to be linear as explained above, the large number of players causes problems with immersion. Being a Warrior of Light is supposed to be something special, yet somehow I can find up to 23 other individuals of similar power when the situation demands it (alliance raids being the largest content which has actual story associated with them)? Why do the Scions never even mention their existence? Why am I always alone in the intermission cutscenes and these other people only show up in the raid itself?

You also can't make any large changes to the game world as a consequence of the story. In particular you can't construct or destroy anything players can possibly stand on because then players might appear to be standing on air if the observer is on a different part of the story. Neither can you add or remove walls in the middle of zones because players could appear to be passing through them.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

4. How would you like the storytelling and player experience to change with later expansions? What concessions towards your vision, or similar improvements, do you think might actually occur?

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Better support for playing quests in a party. Star Wars: The Old Republic did a pretty stellar job of this. You could take cutscenes together and all of your characters would show up in them. In conversations the game would randomly pick who got to answer. Instanced quest battles could be done as a party. You could even observe the cutscenes of another player's class quests (though your character wouldn't be in them).

Of course this also means more work. Cutscenes have to be made in multiple players in mind. Some voice lines have to be recorded twice, depending on whether the NPC is addressing a single player or multiple.

I would also like the quests to have some notion of how much time has passed in the game world. There are too many occasions where an NPC tells me something will take time, and when I immediately talk to them again to pick up the next quest they tell me it's done. Or an NPC tells me they'll hop onto a boat to Kugane and when I teleport there via aetheryte I find them already there.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I've seen an adequate in-game explanation of why it's mostly adventurers that can use aetherytes. Or why we enjoy certain other privileges such as being able to be healed from the brink of death while some NPCs succumb to their wounds when the story demands it (especially aggravating when I'm playing through the MSQ as a healer, but see above about the necessity for the story to be linear).

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Originally Posted by Raikai

1) XIV's capitals and the loading screens sort of set me off them being a really populated and busy location. I wonder if would be possible, at least there, to make it one huge zone without them, like they did with Kugane. The hingan capital might feel smaller than Eorzea's but it def. feels more alive and busy.

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I think this was due to the technical limitations of the PS3 and possibly also lower-end PCs of that time. Now that PS3 support has been discontinued and PCs are more powerful they can make larger zones and put the entire capital in a single zone. It would certainly be nice if they did that for the older capitals too.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

4) Introduce more Warriors of Light NPCs with powers equal of yours. Every plot seems to gravitate around yourself being the "only hope". While it's nice being the center of attention, it gets old a bit fast. How I wish they'd make Arenvald as powerful as yourself so it would be more of a equality relationship rather than a dependency one.

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Or alternatively, that the quests acknowledged the existence of other players. It's especially silly with primals where they proclaim that I'm the only one who can safely approach and fight it, and when duty finder pops I suddenly have a cadre of adventurers all blessed with the power of the Echo. In the story cutscene after the battle those others have vanished into thin air again. Sometimes there's at least a reference to my "adventuring companions", but it's still a bit jarring for them to not be present in any cutscenes outside of the duty instance itself.

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Originally Posted by tdb

I think this was due to the technical limitations of the PS3 and possibly also lower-end PCs of that time. Now that PS3 support has been discontinued and PCs are more powerful they can make larger zones and put the entire capital in a single zone. It would certainly be nice if they did that for the older capitals too.


Or alternatively, that the quests acknowledged the existence of other players. It's especially silly with primals where they proclaim that I'm the only one who can safely approach and fight it, and when duty finder pops I suddenly have a cadre of adventurers all blessed with the power of the Echo. In the story cutscene after the battle those others have vanished into thin air again. Sometimes there's at least a reference to my "adventuring companions", but it's still a bit jarring for them to not be present in any cutscenes outside of the duty instance itself.

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They're not present in cutscenes after because they're not as important as you, you're the "team leader" so to speak, and also because the game doesn't know who you're going to be teamed up with and probably doesn't remember who you were just with.
In older content where they stuck loads of cutscenes in the content itself your party is shown.

I'd like to see my actions have consequences. Most of the patches in 4.x feel like the WoL may not even be there and everything would play out the same. Why show me Yotsuyu's story if all I do is watch? WoL could have been at the other end of the world and get called by Hien to rid of sudden Primal and nothing would have changed. Don't get me wrong, I love a tragic villain but, I honestly felt like a ghost through the whole story... and I still feel so. They can pull a Sixth Sense kinda twist at 4.55 and say WoL died and you were a ghost the whole time and I may actually buy it.

I understand it would be a huge strain on the servers so this obviously is outside of question but I so wish we could in fact independently impact the NPCs life/death while keeping the relatively same worldly flow. It would've been great to see other players share how NPC X or Y is doing while they are dead or gone for others.

I'd like to have a reputation and NPCs around changing their lines based on it. Am I dreaded WoL or beloved one?

FF14 plays a lot like a classical jRPG and while I love such, (they are my fave!) a little western RPG flavors won't hurt I think. It is an MMO after all.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

I understand it would be a huge strain on the servers so this obviously is outside of question but I so wish we could in fact independently impact the NPCs life/death while keeping the relatively same worldly flow. It would've been great to see other players share how NPC X or Y is doing while they are dead or gone for others.

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If the player is given a choice of killing an NPC or letting them live (or equivalently, saving them or letting them die), it usually results in the NPC being written out of the story even if they live. There may be a few offhand remarks about them, but you can be almost certain they won't appear in any cutscenes and there definitely won't be any quests centered on them. The reason is twofold. Firstly, as I said above it would take more development resources to maintain multiple storylines (one where the NPC lives and one where they don't, potentially multiplied if an arc involves multiple such NPCs). Secondly, it would cause backlash from players who kill the NPC and later discover they're blocked from doing some side quest where that NPC plays a key role.

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Originally Posted by MuseTraveller

FF14 plays a lot like a classical jRPG and while I love such, (they are my fave!) a little western RPG flavors won't hurt I think. It is an MMO after all.

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It will quickly get difficult to maintain a consistent world and storyline if players are allowed to make impactful choices. I suppose there would be some merit in a system like Star Wars: The Old Republic's light/dark side meter; being able to choose my character's motivations and having a kind of permanent record of them made the choices feel meaningful even though they really didn't affect the story at all. It would be difficult to suddenly add that sort of system in a new expansion though.

Oh, I agree with you.
Like I said, I do understand why such system will be more of a hassle than being worth it but like I said it's what I would like to see, which I'm aware won't be the best thing to implement. I Just wish my choices as WoL had more consequences or that I could have an impact that's not predetermined to fail or win based on what the MSQ wishes.

hmm, things that would make this game a better RPG huh?? My Top 10

1) more Emotes, more dances and stuff like that is always good and enriches the RPG flair of a game for roleplayers
2) more music instruments for the Bard
3) Reworking/redesigning towns to seamless towns with lesser loading screens, definetely, if neccessary, destroy the towns with a event to a a reason to let us players rebuild them like with did with Doma or how we are going to rebuild Ishgard in Shadowbringers as Crafters. Loading Screens should exist only for when you switch maps, each town should be one big complete map, where you see only a loadign screen when you either enter it or leave it.
4) Adding a Reputation System, where the things you choose affect you and have consequnces on you, how NPCs react towards you
5) Reworking of the Crafting and Collecting Jobs to make them less grindy and more fun with actually SEEING, how you create the things that you craft, instead of these borign outdated anitions where you see not at all, how you create the item you are making. This deserves absolutely a bit more love in details for the rpg aspect of the game.
6) Especially our assistance NPc should help us much better in gettign the items we need to craft stuff, by lettign them go shopping for us the things we need...or want them to go get for us
7) Alot more things in this game should grant the player experiences, to level up quicker, especially when you have done already all Quests.
If you explore a map or Dungeon/Raid fully the first time, this should grant you a guaranteed Level Up
If you read books somewhere, this should grant you exp, cause you learned somethign new from readign the book, if you beat new enemies for the first time, this shoudl give you an immense exp boost and then subsequently lesser, until a certain minimum is reached.
8) Getting exp from fates, or Quests should partially give also Exp for your Chocobo if they were participating in them...
9) Implement a Hero System, that allows us to form parties in instances like Dungeons with Story Heroes like Lyse, Arenvald, Hien, Yugiri, Thancred or Y'Shtola to come with us as allies, together with Hero Reputation, that if we rise that up, lets us become able to get special Hero Quests from them with that we can earn their equipment as rewards, be it either their weapon skins, or their armor styles, or a special card of them, which exists yet not, like for example New Yugiri Card , all others exist I know, but so far only Yugiri has no Card under her newer dress, while for example Thancred and Y'shtola have cards under their old and newer version , same as like Lyse under her other name.
Form what I heard, Shadowbringers will implement something like that ...thats why they were experimenting with the NPCs to let us play as them lately, and I hope this gets continued as well.
10) Add more repeatable Quests into the game and increase the spawn rate of fates.. some maps are often totally empty of fates for a longer time, because people can clear them all away so quickly now. especially increase the spawn rate of those special fates that give stuff like minis, triad cards or other rewards required to get some equipment traded in for them. People dont want to wait multiple hours, until such fates respawn. Remove Level Scaling from Boss Fates and let these enemies always auto scale to the current maximum Level of players, so that thay stay always up to date and need to be done as party of at least 8 people. Same shoudl be done with any outdated Rank B,A,S enemies that are of level 50 or 60 or currently 70, once Shadowbrigner comes, all these enemies should be of Level 80.
people can outright kill them way too quick now ,due to beign overleveled, that they are absolutely no threat anymore, and in case of rank S enemies, people have absolutely no chance/time to travel to the map and monster location, before they a basically already killed off within seconds!!, because most people are even still in the loading screen, when the monster gets already killed off when a person announced just seconds before its existance in the chat...
Would these enemies get constantly scaled up to current player max level, would they stay always a threat and couldnt be killed in seconds, thus giving people more time to get to them and give them hits, before it dies too quickly...so that they can participate in killing them, until people have to wait on the next respawn

1) More customization and choices would go a long way towards improving the RPG feeling. Such as making the choices you make in conversations and cutscenes actually make a difference. Or allowing your class to impact options/quests.

In addition, a deeper stat system would also improve customisation. Like, we have materia, something that is renown for its use in FFVII as a customization system for skills and abilities. What do we use it for? Stacking whatever our best stat is... Which also is broken down into usually just 1 single primary stat and then 1-2 secondary stats that actually matter... (Rendering a large portion of available materia completely useless...). More freedom with stats (Such as Agility being useful for all classes because of giving Attack/Cast Speed and Crit or Intellect being useful for TP regeneration and Hit Rate as an example) and more unique materia (Such as procs on weapons or defensive procs when taking damage for armour) in addition to the boring stat boosts.

Role Actions being more meaningful choices too. Like, even before the change to give us all 10 action slots Role Actions were kind of lame, with a few good ones and a lot of very niche/useless ones... What would be more interesting would be having a selection of abilities and traits to choose from. Abilities that have differences based off your job (For example, BLK might get a mana restore that actually works while Fire Attuned vs RDM/SUM who would get a mana restore that synergizes more with their own kit, maybe SUM gets a trait to reduce the CD of Aetherflow or that makes Drain Energy not use Aetherflow charges but have a CD instead) and traits that provide similar utility but to one of your job skills (For example, Second Wind for Bard lets Repelling Shot heal them, while Machinist gets a heal on Blank)

3) Benefits/Deficits of the aforementioned changes, mostly the main deficit is the extra work it would take. Adding in more options, means more work to be done, more time and money spend developing. Which is likely the reason why they will never happen, it's too easy to just to as little as required and thus get the most profit...

Benefits are fairly obvious, more happy playerbase as they will have more fun playing around with the new systems and making their character their own.

4) As far as storytelling with later expansions... I wish they'd stop hyping me up as the "Bringer of Light" that's single handedly saving the world countless times... But then shoehorning me into having to use the Duty Finder to find a random group of people to go deal with a particular dungeon/primal... Like, I'd much prefer if I could just do a single player version just for the story (Especially if I want to continue the story but I'm playing at a strange time of day so queues are much longer...) while unlocking the Duty Finder version if I want to do that instead (Or want to do it later as part of a Duty Roulette).

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Originally Posted by tdb

Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I've seen an adequate in-game explanation of why it's mostly adventurers that can use aetherytes.

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Actually i only recall the SB fisher quest, where the Guild boss actually says he was in kugane when he was younger and can just use the aetheryte...

I would like job quests to be more rich and interesting. Problem is, these quests are gate-keepers to your capstone ability for the level cap, so they probably don't want them to take longer than 10 minutes each. AF quest in FFXI were some of the best quests in any FF game (especially DRG), but they only had 1 set of those quest for each job, ever. In FFXIV they need to create 4 or 5 quests for each job and make them all unique, I can see how the scenarios can be watered down.

use the world more, thats my main wish, the game has a beautiful environment thats constantly ignored and its sad to ride through it and see no one else, if they could implement some systems or activities that got players moving around the more that would be awesome