Some Othard questions... geography, lore and customs

Hello there! I'm a returning roleplayer with a few questions that I couldn't find precise google answers for, more specifically regarding Othard. I'd greatly appreciate any help, so here it is:

1) It's safe to assume that Hingashi is directly inspired in the japanese culture, Doma inspired in chinese culture and the Azim Steppes inspired in mongolian culture?

2) There are anything like Geishas in either society? Men can partake such jobs?

3) How thaumaturgy is presented in the Far Eastern culture? They are priests too, like in Ul'dah? The only real manifestation I've seen on this is Sadu and her powers, but without any further explanation on its background.

4) How's the naming convention for surnames for Hingan midlanders? I've seen many of the forenames inspired in japanese, but not the surnames...

Thanks!

1 - Basically. Lots of differences obviously, but that's the the idea at least.

2 - Hildibrand.

3 - Eorzean thaumaturgy doesn't necessarily exist in the same way in other parts of the world. There are many ways of manipulating aether to use magic. Thaumaturgy is just a style.

4 - No idea.

1. Pretty much. ("Adjust as necessary.")

2. There are professions like geisha but make sure to get the terminology straight or you'll accidentally invoke the asinine prostitution labels.

3. Thaumaturgy is a distinctly Eorzean "school" of magic, but - just like the geomancers are kinda like conjurers - the onmyoji are kinda like thaumaturges.

4. "Far Eastern" is presently considered a "clan" of Hyur, so we'd need a separate guide.

In regards to that second question I recommend the weaver questline - its basically about a Maiko (a Geiko/Geisha in training) and her mentor, aswell as a guy whos a fan of both of them and pays you to design new customes for their dances.

Ah, thanks! Going to check out the quests then. Hopefully more cultural details will be presented in the next encyclopedia.

1. Doma is Nara era Japan, Hingashi is Tokugawa (Edo) era Japan in some variation of sakoku, and the Steppes are Mongolian.

2. Yes to both. Hildibrand dresses up as a taikomochi at one point in his SB arc, and if I recall correctly, there're a few geiko NPCs in Kugane that are involved in sidequests and such.

4. For Far Eastern names, we can expect to borrow from Raen Auri naming conventions. That is, "official" surnames are reserved for the warrior and ruling classes. Commoners, that being merchants, peasants, artisans, etc., take on unofficial names that typically reflect their professions. In actual in-game practice, however, NPCs typically use their Far Eastern name and an Eorzean appellation related to their name's meaning (note that this method is typically used when NPCs appear in duties, and I cannot recall if it is also used in cutscenes). Examples are Yugiri Mistwalker, Oboro Moonrise, Makoto the True, so on and so forth. You're best off using this latter method in my opinion.

1. Hingashi and Doma are both Japanese inspired. The Steppe is indeed based on Mongolia.

2. Geisha / courtesans are prominent in both societies; Kugane has an entire red light district (Sanjo Hanamachi) while Yotsuyu was known to have been... owned by a Doman brothel. Hildibrand shows up in one of his 4.x quests, and while people are surprised it's not because he's male at all, but because they hadn't requested a male.

3. Other than Sadu apparently practicing what we know as Thaumaturgy, the East seems to have its own magical traditions. They are probably similar to the Eorzeans' in practice, but with a different history behind it.

4. Not sure... I'd need to comb Kugane for people with both a first and last name, I suppose.

1) Doma is a mix of Chinese and Japanese cultures. I don't know how the inference to Nara Japan took root, but to me it's most definitely wrong, because such an analogy doesn't account for the look and feel of Yanxia as a whole. The naming conventions, customs and costumes of the Doman people are certainly Japanese in inspiration, but the landscape and architecture is most certainly Chinese. Yes, I know Nara Japan was consciously modelled after Tang China, but geomancy and the Qitian Dasheng, aka Sun Wukong, in the Swallow's Compass are decidedly Chinese, not Japanese. Even the name, Yanxia, is Chinese (it means the Swallow's Gorges). Hinganshi is much easier to place, as its analogy with the early Edo Shogunate is very easy to spot.

2) Courtesans existed in all cultures, and certainly in Chinese and Japanese history. But, as far as I know, it was mainly in Japan that they are seen as a distinct professional class deserving of a certain level of respect. Geisha clearly operate in Kugane's pleasure and theatre district. As for Doma, well, that was the unfortunate fate of Yotsuyu, who was made to do more than just "entertain" guests.

3) Thaumaturgy is distinctively Ul'dahn. But other cultures will likely manipulate aether in similar ways.

4) As suggested, it's a good bet you can refer to raen naming conventions for hyuran Hinganshi surnames.

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

1. Doma is Nara era Japan, Hingashi is Tokugawa (Edo) era Japan in some variation of sakoku, and the Steppes are Mongolian.

2. Yes to both. Hildibrand dresses up as a taikomochi at one point in his SB arc, and if I recall correctly, there're a few geiko NPCs in Kugane that are involved in sidequests and such.

4. For Far Eastern names, we can expect to borrow from Raen Auri naming conventions. That is, "official" surnames are reserved for the warrior and ruling classes. Commoners, that being merchants, peasants, artisans, etc., take on unofficial names that typically reflect their professions. In actual in-game practice, however, NPCs typically use their Far Eastern name and an Eorzean appellation related to their name's meaning (note that this method is typically used when NPCs appear in duties, and I cannot recall if it is also used in cutscenes). Examples are Yugiri Mistwalker, Oboro Moonrise, Makoto the True, so on and so forth. You're best off using this latter method in my opinion.

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Actually Raen Auri names appear like regular japanese name + surnames on the character creator screen, randomizing the names... But you're right about what we actually see ingame with Yugiri and Oboro..

The information regarding Raen naming conventions was taken from the Race Naming Conventions thread that is pinned at the top of the lore forum. Not even sure what you're trying to correct me on anyway.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Actually Raen Auri names appear like regular japanese name + surnames on the character creator screen, randomizing the names... But you're right about what we actually see ingame with Yugiri and Oboro..

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It should be noted that Yugiri and Oboro are shinobi, and that may explain why they don't appear to have surnames. It could be the case that the ninja relinquish their family ties upon adopting their profession. At least, that's how I have rationalised it (I seem to recall that Yugiri's actual surname has been revealed, but I may be wrong).

In any case, there's also Yuki of the Yatsurugi clan in Hinganshi. Her surname is her clan name, which she retains despite having learnt ninjutsu. Her name literally translates into (Princess) Snow of the Eight Blades.

Yugiri's last name is Mistwalker, but it's not clear if that's actually a family name, or just some sort of ninja title.

It's worth mentioning that the names of many Far Eastern Hyur and Roegadyn NPCs in-game are actually found in the list of automatically-generated Raen names at character creation. Examples of this include Isse, Rasho, Kotokaze, and even Kaien and Hien—all are possible Raen forenames from the character creation randomiser.

(This also applies to some of the few Far Eastern family names we have heard of, such as Naeuri.)

From this, it seems like we can probably gather that the 'Raen' naming conventions are really conventions that can be applied to Hingan and Doman culture more generally.

The other thing with names is that the character names displayed in battle (Yugiri Mistwalker, Oboro Moonrise, etc.) are not surnames but epithets - and the same is done for Eorzean characters. (eg. Haurchefant's surname is Greystone but he will be "Haurchefant of the Silver Fuller" in battle instances.)

The lorebook lists both surname and epithet for job-quest characters. So from that, the ninja quest characters' full names are Oboro Torioi and Karasu Kanshi.

Lorebook volume 2 will probably list the proper surnames for Yugiri and Gosetsu.

Yanxia/Doma's Chinese influence as well as being inspired by historical Japan is very much in keeping with the game though, as many of Hydaelyn's nations are a mash up of multiple real life places or historical nations, rather than simply being one fantasy counterpart culture, and Doma is no different.

After all, look at Ala Mhigo/Gyr Abania: Moroccan/Middle Eastern architecture, but Scottish/Gaelic culture/naming customs and even a little bit of Australian culture thrown in for good measure (the later in the form of Ala Mhigo's national anthem being almost a dead ringer for Australia's anthem, both are nations founded by outcasts who stubbornly managed to turn a virtually uninhabitable wasteland into home, and have given rise to more than a few talented soldiers). ;)).

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

The information regarding Raen naming conventions was taken from the Race Naming Conventions thread that is pinned at the top of the lore forum. Not even sure what you're trying to correct me on anyway.

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Sorry, didn't mean to sound rude or anything! It is that I was checking the Raen random name generator and it didn't give me out any of the examples you put on, but just japanese traditional surnames, and not anything like Mistwalker or Moonrise, so I got a bit confused if the name generator itself was not up to par with the lore.

The names seen from Doman characters before our journey there have two possible explanations:

1. They're adopted pseudonyms. Considering all the Domans we met before going to Othard were ninja, having a pseudonym makes perfect sense.

2. In Yugiri's case, she's an exile from Sui-no-Sato, so is unlikely to have a "real" surname.

The name generator spits out names proper for Raen and Doman Hyur as well.