Is this the players fault or a SE thing? See I'm a paying customer like everyone else that plays this game. I was kicked out of Place of the dead floor 172 during this attack. Where we was told we got killed before we was kicked out which was bogus. I've been looking at several posts. Seems like you got crafters losing mats. Seems to me like players are being given the brush off. Now it seems like the only time SE acts like they care is when a huge chunk of the player base talks about quiting. Example like the housing issues a few patches back. Do we always have to moblize the player base just for you to see us? I wasted 8 hrs in potd for a item to give my gf. We didnt fail. The server did! How is this fair? I pay 30 dollars a month to get the brush off? The players that was in there represent close to $100 a month not counting mogstation item buys. If ddos attacks arent the players fault you have failed your player base and something needs to be done! More then we are "Trying to fix the problem." A concern and not happy player
I have a Question about DDOS attacks
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10-30-2018, 05:52 AMprime456I have a Question about DDOS attacks
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10-30-2018, 06:11 AMZephera
DDOS attacks are neither a players fault nor are they SE's fault. Sole blame lies with the people who orchestrate the attacks.
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10-30-2018, 06:13 AMAdeacia
DDoS attacks. Not much can really be done about them. That's why they are used so often: they work.
SE is not to blame here and neither is the ISP. The only way this will stop is if the attackers decide to stop attacking. -
10-30-2018, 06:33 AMEnkidoh
The main reason DDoS attacks are so effective is they are designed to emulate normal internet traffic, it's somewhat akin to a highway where a bunch of pranksters have deliberately parked hundreds or thousands of cars in the middle of the road during rush hour, deliberately causing traffic jams. DDoS works by deliberately overloading internet servers with bogus connections, lagging the whole thing down until it inevitabely crashes.
Unfortunately it's something they cannot really prevent against, and it is difficult to completely fix once it starts (usually things only are fully solved when those responsible just get bored and stop their mayhem or give up). -
10-30-2018, 06:40 AMDrWho2010
you also agree to periodic disruptions too in the TOS.
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10-30-2018, 08:15 AMDynratygus
Thank you for posting in the Final Fantasy XIV Technical Support Forum.
Unfortunately we are unable to assist with your concern as it is not a technical issue. This thread will be moved to " General Discussion". I apologize for the inconvenience.
Hope to see you online! -
10-30-2018, 10:33 AMprime456
I guess I shouldnt pay for a service they cant insure.
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10-30-2018, 10:38 AMZepheraYou can't really protect against DDOS attacks without massive Amazon or Google like infrastructure.Quote:
Originally Posted by prime456
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10-30-2018, 10:38 AMValkyrie_LennethIf you want to ragequit over one wipe, thats up to you. I've wiped 4 times on 170+, yet i'm still here.Quote:
Originally Posted by prime456
No company can provide 100% uptime on a service. Not your ISP, phone company, electric company. No one. -
10-30-2018, 10:46 AMIlanI guess you shouldn't do anything online if you can't understand why it is impossible to prevent something like that if you are not a giant company. SE can't do ANYTHING about it when the ISP gets bombed with ddos attacks. Its like you blame the company who produced your car that you are stuck in the traffic after someone caused jams on purpose...Quote:
Originally Posted by prime456
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10-30-2018, 11:03 AMLuciferMink
I've been in this game for years. I haven't seen the level of disconnects and DDoS attacks in the past as I have recently, SINCE THE DATA CENTER MOVE. I don't know what they did, but it seems the new data center is less secure than the old one. Yes, the old one had a slower ping, but that didn't bother me, I didn't notice any speed increase with the move. I'm just wondering where all our money goes, since it's sort of becoming obvious to me that they aren't keeping up with hardware and security upgrades. My friend's husband does this kind of stuff for a living, while it's difficult, this game shouldn't be subjected to these types of attacks.
Ya say google or amazon type infrastructure.... well, SquareEnix, I'm pretty sure, has a good one in Japan. We've already seen how they favor the Japanese, Korean, and Chinese players over the US players. An earthquake hits and a small part of Japan is in trouble? Oh, housing demo is paused. Wild fires are ALL OVER the North American continent? Naw, we ain't pausin that. Angel and demon outfits were on the Chinese mog station LONG before we saw it.
North American FanFest. We KNOW how quickly those tickets went. Yes, some were bought by scalpers and those who cut the line by getting the final checkout URL. But some were bought and earmarked for Japanese tourists who are partaking in a tour of the US put on by SquareEnix. You heard me. Some of the US FanFest tickets were already earmarked for Japanese tourists who are coming to the US. I don't have an issue with them coming to see the US. I really don't. But I do have a problem with the venue being so small, with such a limited number of tickets, with the North American fanbase being SO BIG, they should NOT be reserving any tickets for anyone.
Yes, it is their ISP that gets bombed, so... maybe THEY need to find a new ISP? We already know our sub money is actually put towards other game products, NOT this game's maintenance.
--Lucifer Mink -
10-30-2018, 11:11 AMIlanSo what can SE do if the ISP gets ddos attacks? Nothing because SE doesn't get attacked!Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferMink
The angel and demon set were most likely custom made for the chinese, ya know ordered n stuff. So no wonder they had it first. We only get the stuff that the chinese ordered because the com here cried about it, so be happy that you can get it at all.
I don't know how your contracts with your ISP are but my contracts run for 1-2 years and i suppose business contracts run even longer and it can get pretty expensive if you just terminate them. -
10-30-2018, 11:22 AMLuciferMink
Yeah, and they're getting the WHALE mount first. They got the Red Hare mount first as well. The market for Mog Station ALWAYS goes: Asian market > NA market > EU market. The Cloud mount didn't hit EU till a FULL YEAR after we got it. So yes, SquareEnix FAVORS the Asian Market.
But, my main point is: I know their ISP is getting attacked. If their ISP can't keep their own stuff secure, then SE should CHANGE THEIR ISP. When the company that my old store's point of sale system went through changed a policy, making it more difficult to process a credit card charge, we didn't just sit on it and tell our VERY ANGRY customers "It's not our fault". WE CHANGED OUR PROVIDER! Yeah, it was a learning curve, but we did it, and we were GLAD we did.
There are things they can do.
--Lucifer -
10-30-2018, 12:17 PMHestzhyenThe thing about DDoS attacks is that they're frighteningly effective for little investment and there's no sure-fire way to defend against them. You can slough off bogus traffic as you identify it but it's so cheap and easy to shift the source and pattern of the attacks that there is almost no point except to say "well we tried". Eventually whoever is doing this will either get bored, run out of money/infected devices, or get caught... with the first being the most likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferMink
SE is not a perfect company and their customer service leaves a LOT to be desired. But they legitimately can't just switch ISPs or put up a firewall to stop this- they have to play defense until the aggressor stops on their own.
As to the cash shop, who cares, it's all a waste of money anyway. If SE wants to play favourites with China/Korea then let 'em. -
10-30-2018, 01:24 PMTurnipsiChinese version is being handled by Shanda, don't remember which company was behind Korean. We're getting their exclusives due to player request, they're being ordered and developed for those versions. What does this have to do with DDOS anyway...? Japan is getting hit too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
Your friends husband would be pretty rich is he can stop attacks like that btw. And if they're actually wanting FFXIV down, changing ISP (which is behind a contract) wouldn't even help. This has been discussed previously. You're welcome to do your decisions on staying or leaving. -
10-30-2018, 01:51 PMFonzarelli
For people who are talking about how SE needs to do something about DDoS attacks, what do you propose be done?
I know you think that your $14.99 USD/month is a lot of money, but it's not. Companies like Amazon or Google have thousands of square footage of independent machines running their servers. These publicly-traded companies deal with money on a scale that SE is nowhere in the league of. So it is actually very unreasonable for you to expect that somehow the company can be protected at all times from this level of attack. Of course, as time passes, SE can try to find and isolate some things... but that takes time.
Also, there isn't a reasonable expectation that specifically the FF14 servers would be targeted by this form of attack. This kind of attack is often reserved for trying to disrupt government websites, and other big-fish in the world. Not some random MMO that has no affect on the world's economy, policy, or even a mass-level of users (yes, approximate 14 million is a lot of people, but not for this kind of statement).
Really, you should be more upset at the people doing it. It is really stupid how some people get their kicks. They are literally targeting servers of a game, where the sole purpose people connect to, is to have fun.
So these people, whatever their motive is, are actually the biggest d-bags because their sole purpose is just to stop the fun of a select group of people in the world. -
10-30-2018, 05:23 PMKurando
Seems to be moving the topic to a "SE hates NA" tantrum. NA isn't the only place in the world, nor does it deserve any special treatment over anyone else. You lost your potd data, it sucks, but life goes on. Perhaps we'll get something from SE in the future for the issues who knows, but going on a hate speech against the whole company isn't going to do anything.
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10-30-2018, 08:01 PMSenorPattyNo! I want my lynch mob now! My crops died on the day of an eclipse, which we all know is a sign created by the strange things I don't understand and since it's perfectly normal to hate things I don't understand, I need to scapegoat. Only then will all my problems magically go away.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurando
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10-30-2018, 08:20 PMNezerius
Sure looks like a thinly veiled attempt at yet another "DDoS - PotD edition" thread, was the first one not enough for your group, OP?
OT: It's neither the player's, nor SE's fault. The DDoS attacks aren't aimed specifically at SE's servers, but to routes leading to those servers. -
10-30-2018, 09:19 PMIlanWrong quote, but you are right. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Turnipsi
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10-30-2018, 09:59 PMYukinoAmidala
FFXIV as a service is operating fine, the DDoS attacks are affecting your ability to route to the ISP's that then route you to the servers which is causing disconnections.
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10-31-2018, 12:20 AMDustytomeConsider the internet like a highway. Your connection to the servers is a car going back and forth on that highway. SE doesn't really control that highway until you're right to their building. For the most part it's smooth sailing for your car heading back and forth, but then a DDOS happens. A DDOS is like someone controlling thousands of other cars (signals from other computers that have been taken over by malware usually) and sending them to one location. Traffic immediately slows to a stop, it can take forever to get by and it causes the drive to take long enough that the car isn't delivering/receiving information quickly enough which is when a disconnect occurs. Attempts are made to filter the traffic, but it's often difficult to separate good traffic from bad traffic and there's so much of it to filter through that it can be near impossible to keep up.Quote:
Originally Posted by prime456
Some companies mitigate this issue by having multiple locations so if traffic is backed up, you can be redirected to a new locations. This is very costly and personally I think it's just too much data changing on a consistent basis for a game to pull off without gameplay being affected in a negative manner. -
10-31-2018, 10:04 PMBristolRusshttps://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...72b3fc4087f863Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferMink
A hurricane hits a tiny amount of states and housing demo gets suspended, so don't even try pulling that. Bunch of entitled weenies these days. -
10-31-2018, 10:28 PMJib
Talking different things here. DDoS attacks is one thing, SE preference for Asia is another. We all know SE prefers Europe the least. We get nothing or when we get it is always late or very difficult ways to obtain.
DDoS attack has been happening to everyone, Asia, America, Europe... it sucks, just have to be patient I guess, it won’t happen forever. Talk with your wallet. Cancel subscription if you don’t want to wait, come back when you hear it is better. But one thing I will tell you, FFXIV has been the most “stable” mmorpg I have ever played. I’ve had issues with SWTOR, WOW, ESO, Blackdesert...
It happens, it will get better. -
10-31-2018, 11:35 PMTimeraiderGaranyiAs a person who gets paid IRL for IT business and especially remote and managed services... that comment is laughable.Quote:
Originally Posted by prime456
If you think there is ANY service that works as intended 100% of the time, you need to shout it out to everyone else because at that point... you have found the holy grail :D -
10-31-2018, 11:43 PMLineageRazorI'm not sure what you mean by keeping stuff secure. There's no way to "secure" against a DDOS attack, other than by having such a ridiculously massive infrastructure that you can process ALL of the incoming messages. There's no way to tell the difference between incoming DDOS messages and legitimate customer messages - they all need to be processed. This is why entities like Google and Amazon are pretty much the only institutions in the world that are pointless to DDOS. They're built from the ground up to handle a level of traffic that makes a DDOS attack look like a trickle.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferMink
For a companies like Sony or SE to be DDOS-proof, they'd need lots of hardware, expensive both to acquire and to maintain, that would be totally pointless 99% of the time. It's wasted space unless they're actively under attack, and since attacks are rare, it's an extremely poor investment. Bear in mind, too, that WE would be the ones paying for all this mostly-useless hardware; subscriptions would skyrocket in price. And worse, all that infrastructure is pointless if the DDOS strikes someplace out of their reach. If the targets are not SE themselves, but some other place on the route between the data center and your computer, there's nothing SE can do even if they're equipped to deal with DDOS themselves.
No, right now there's just one method for dealing with DDOS, and that's to wait for it to blow over. So far, it's worked without fail; no DDOS-er keeps it up forever. The best you as a player can do is promise yourself that if you ever meet a DDOS-er in person, you'll punch them in the face. -
11-01-2018, 12:05 AMAstarotha
also every time they ban bot and gilfarmer accounts thats an extra set of logins crashing into the server constantly on top of the people pulling off ddos attacks from starbucks, libraries, the truck stop bathroom off i95, every old persons pc that clicks on every email they get, and then you get to the people actually playing the game and all their traffic
ddos is literally the popoto chip of the hacking world, theyre cheap, easy to find, and crunch all you want theyll make more -
11-01-2018, 12:53 AMKirsten_RevDDoS attacks cannot be perfectly defended against, and are the result of third-party actions. They're not the player's fault, nor are they SE's fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by prime456
That said, one thing that gets missed a lot is that SE has made XIV particularly vulnerable to them. There are a number of ways in which disconnects are more harmful or inconvenient than they need to be for players (certain content like PotD or Uznair will simply kick you out and cost you your progress; being mid-craft will cost you the materials; the game client will often kick you all the way out to the desktop instead of simply returning to the login screen). The error codes that players get when the servers are being hit are unhelpful, and have spawned countless threads about what's causing the issue, with many 'solutions' suggested that incline people to think it's a client-side issue (just why does an HTTPS System Error show up when the login server is down, for instance?). It's brutally clear they never considered the possibility of DDoS attacks when building the game client.
I'd be stunned if this general lack of consideration didn't extend to the server architecture, too, which is almost certainly placing them at unnecessarily high levels of risk. So there's that.
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All that said, seeking to assign blame for DDoS attacks really misses the point, in my estimation. The core issue is that SE is a company providing a product, a product which is not working properly, resulting in upset customers. Regardless of why the product isn't working, if it starts leading to player retention issues, it's in SE's interest to do what it can to mollify the affected players. It's not that they're obligated to, nor that they're at fault and should be made to atone - it's that they're a business, and at the end of the day, they need people to stay subscribed. At a certain point, you eat the cost and lay the groundwork for handling the situation better in the future. -
11-03-2018, 06:25 PMRitsukoSonoda
Well if you want anyone to legitimately blame for DDoS attacks...
1. the person or persons that initiated it.
2. people that do not maintain a secure computer by keeping their OS and security software up to date while foolishly downloading things they shouldn't be or visit websites they shouldn't be. DDoS attacks are often executed by computers that have downloaded unwanted software the user isn't aware of. -
11-03-2018, 11:01 PMSigma-AstraI'm not sure that you understand DDoS attacks nor do you understand that the Cash Shop items you're griping about were made EXCLUSIVELY FIRST for China and Korea by their own request. The only reasoning as to why we were given them was because the NA and EU community made tons of requests for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuciferMink
And yes, while I won't lie and say that they don't favor their own culture first, I believe you're just lashing out words for the sake of it and not really thinking clearly in what you gripe or write about. -
11-03-2018, 11:44 PMtdbBased on what I've seen, this is likely the case. A week or two ago some of my friends were unable to get into the game and another had serious lag issues and kept getting disconnected. Meanwhile I had no issues. Last night the login issue hit me and it took 10+ attempts to get it. Once I did get in the game worked just fine though. Those same friends reported they had no problems whatsoever. If the attack was targeting SE's data center everyone would have problems; if it was targeting me I would have problems with everything. Since neither of those was the case it stands to reason that some router in the middle was affected.Quote:
Originally Posted by LineageRazor