What's the best way to keep your MP up as a spellcaster?

I'm thinking about getting the Red mage job so I wondered what's the best way to keep the MP up beside guzzling a ton of ethers and Elixirs.

Lucid Dreaming is the Role Action that give healers and casters MP. That and having a BRD/MCH in the party with Refresh

Lucid Dreaming is pretty much the best answer, yes. I tend to carry HQ Super-Ether, though, in case LD is on cooldown after I had to Verraise a number of people

Black Mage is probably the easiest caster to keep MP up on, though, since it has a built-in Refresh mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Jade3173

Lucid Dreaming is the Role Action that give healers and casters MP. That and having a BRD/MCH in the party with Refresh

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Does it restore a decent amount or the effect needs to be amplified with stuff like Refresh from a BRD?

Lucid Dreaming is a 15 second buff that restores a fairly modest amount of MP. If I'm at 1000 MP or so and almost tapped out, it'll take me back up to half of my bar even while I'm casting.

Unless people, including you, are dying left and right and you're Verraising them all, Lucid should be all you need for a fight. BRD/MCH Refresh just never hurts to have

RDM has the poorest mp regen of the casters but even then, you'll almost never be "guzzling" ethers or elixirs unless you are either dying a lot or rezzing a lot. It's nearly impossible to run dry in 4man content and in trials/raids/etc. good Lucid management should be sufficient to keep you casting.

If you diligently use Lucid Dreaming, you should never have MP problems unless you're having to constantly use Verraise (and you *will* have parties where you're constantly using Verraise, so get used to the idea).


Just remember not to Verraise so much that you cripple your ability to DPS. There comes a point where some people are less of a drain to their party's resources if they just remain flat on the ground. If your MP is under half and your Lucid Dreaming is still on cooldown, consider carefully whether to cast that Verraise.


You should not ever need to rely on another party member for MP refresh in order to maintain DPS.

On long fights, Lucid Dreaming should be used as soon as it's ready from the last time you use it.
Keep it on cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

If you diligently use Lucid Dreaming, you should never have MP problems unless you're having to constantly use Verraise (and you *will* have parties where you're constantly using Verraise, so get used to the idea).


Just remember not to Verraise so much that you cripple your ability to DPS. There comes a point where some people are less of a drain to their party's resources if they just remain flat on the ground. If your MP is under half and your Lucid Dreaming is still on cooldown, consider carefully whether to cast that Verraise.


You should not ever need to rely on another party member for MP refresh in order to maintain DPS.

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I'll try to mostly save my Verraise for when all healers are dead or if we're running really low on DPSes.Otherwise I'll let the rezzing for the healers when they're still in.

Thanks for the advice everyone ^_^.Been trying to experiment with ranged options since some fights like Lakshmi EX sometimes forces you to be away from melee range.

I do have a BRD on level 50 but I've been eager to give Red mage a try for a while

Honestly, the only way to keep your MP as a Red Mage is Lucid Dreaming, which all Ranged Magical DPS get at 24 as a Role Action.
Generally, Red Mages don't use up that much MP unless they have to spam Verraise or maybe Tether (which most people don't bother using).

Lucid Dreaming should be all you need, unless something is going seriously wrong with the run. Usually, you won’t run into MP troubles unless you’re back-to-back dying or back-to-back raising. So Lucid Dreaming (and perhaps a few HQ Super Ethers) will be more than enough for you. Refresh is not needed to augment its effects. You’ll only want Refresh if you’re dying a lot or raising a lot.

Ideally, I would recommend using your first Lucid at 60-75% MP, and then keep it on cooldown throughout an encounter. It will serve as an MP refresh every 2 minutes, as well as an enmity dump for your personal aggro. Never use it when you’re almost dry unless you have absolutely no choice to (e.g., it’s still on cooldown from your last usage, and a lot of crap has hit a lot of fans—people dying a lot or you dying a lot).

People already answered, Lucid Dreaming.

But since you can't tell what's going to happen once in instance, having some Ether won't hurt as a last resort.

RDM melee combo also cost tp and not mana. Passive regen will bring you 2% mana every 3 second, so using melee combo often as possible make you save some mana.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

On long fights, Lucid Dreaming should be used as soon as it's ready from the last time you use it.
Keep it on cooldown.

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+1.
I wouldn't save Lucid Dreaming for when MP is almost dry. On big boss fights or longer solo story fights, I usually start using it when my MP is at about 75% and then keep it on cooldown to avoid having to worry about MP running low.

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

I'll try to mostly save my Verraise for when all healers are dead or if we're running really low on DPSes. Otherwise I'll let the rezzing for the healers when they're still in.

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Actually, as a WHM main, I really appreciate when RDMs (especially with Dualcast) or SMNs help with raises. Having that support lets us focus on keeping the remaining people alive.
For healers Swiftcast is precious and if it's on cooldown, then the long cast time of Raise is one of most dangerous things to do.

Red Mages offensive spells have rather low mana requirements, to the point that Lucid Dreaming is close enough to a break point if not more than that if used on cooldown. That means that you absolutely should not avoid using Verraise two or three times in a fight. If you do, really, a red mage isn't exactly the best choice to pick. It is easy to play well enough in comparison to other casters, but its damage does suffer for the sake of it being able to heal and revive. Not using those two basically removes the reason why the red mages damage output is considerably lowered in comparison to other casters, being around the support classes.

So yes. As a red mage it is a good idea to actually use Verraise, just not to pick up someone that constantly dies. I can tell you from practice though that there are fights where it's actually better to bottom up on mana raising people to the point you cannot even DPS anymore than focusing on DPS and letting party lie dead. It is extremely rare, extremely situational and rather obvious...if the healers are either dead or low on mana themselves.

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Originally Posted by Mikita

+1.
I wouldn't save Lucid Dreaming for when MP is almost dry. On big boss fights or longer solo story fights, I usually start using it when my MP is at about 75% and then keep it on cooldown to avoid having to worry about MP running low.




Actually, as a WHM main, I really appreciate when RDMs (especially with Dualcast) or SMNs help with raises. Having that support lets us focus on keeping the remaining people alive.
For healers Swiftcast is precious and if it's on cooldown, then the long cast time of Raise is one of most dangerous things to do.

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It all depends on the situation really,if the boss doesn't have really tight DPS checking like Exdeath(savage) or phase 1 Shinryu EX then yeah I can definitely help with rezzing.

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

I'll try to mostly save my Verraise for when all healers are dead or if we're running really low on DPSes.Otherwise I'll let the rezzing for the healers when they're still in.

Thanks for the advice everyone ^_^.Been trying to experiment with ranged options since some fights like Lakshmi EX sometimes forces you to be away from melee range.

I do have a BRD on level 50 but I've been eager to give Red mage a try for a while

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generally Save veraise unless healer is struggling to keep party alive and is too busy to raise/not enough mp to raise the other healer MP regen tools are much better then yours

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

It all depends on the situation really,if the boss doesn't have really tight DPS checking like Exdeath(savage) or phase 1 Shinryu EX then yeah I can definitely help with rezzing.

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Unless the entire party is completely dead, that Dualcast GCD you'll spend on the raise while the healers are healing or dpsing themselves isn't what's going to make or break the dps check. If anything, it'll help clear it because now you have a dps or two back up, even with weakness.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

generally Save veraise unless healer is struggling to keep party alive and is too busy to raise/not enough mp to raise the other healer MP regen tools are much better then yours

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This is the best way to wipe. If you start raising only after healers are down on mana/dead it's already too late and the party will struggle.

Healers have higher mana regeneration, yes, but healers also have significantly higher mana costs. Healers burn though their mana WAY faster for healing than red mage does for attack. If you're a red mage, go ahead and spam Vercure. See how long you're going to last. That's the cost of the cheapest heal that healers have. Three heals cost the same as five Jolts/Verstone/Verfire. Four heals cost the same as five Veraero/Verthunder. In fact, Verflare/Verholy cost the same as Vercure.

In comparison, Cure II costs twice as much as Vercure and Cure. Cure III costs 3,75 times as much as Cure. Medica costs 2,75 times as much as Cure. Medica II costs 3,30 times as much as Cure.


Stop worrying about DPS and actually help your party. That's what is the point of Red Mage. If you want DPS, go Black Mage. If you want DPS but want to be able to help recover from healers death, go Summoner. A Red Mage that never heals and only raises when healers cannot do that anymore is a bad player in much the same way as a tank that never uses any stance, a healer that never uses AoE heals or a bard that never uses the MP/TP refreshes or songs.

It absolutely also comes down to timing of lucid. One must be aware of when to use it, you do not want to use it too early.
I know we all want to be the hero at times and revive 3 or so players in the team but that really drains our mana.

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Originally Posted by MetalSnakeXI1

It all depends on the situation really,if the boss doesn't have really tight DPS checking like Exdeath(savage) or phase 1 Shinryu EX then yeah I can definitely help with rezzing.

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At best you'll only loose one GCD.
If for some reason your healer don't have swiftcast to raise, they'll be grateful you do it

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Originally Posted by Berteaux_Braumegain

Black Mage is probably the easiest caster to keep MP up on, though, since it has a built-in Refresh mechanic.

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SMN is a good MP giver too. SMN can also recover MP quite well with LD, Aetherflow and Energy Drain

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Originally Posted by kikix12

If you start raising only after healers are down on mana/dead it's already too late and the party will struggle.

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now i never said when Healer has no MP ,seeing them struggle doesn't equal them out of MP and its completely situational how a healer acts on there own without the other healer and can easily sort out the situation and you the player should be able to asses the situation to see ifs its the right time to help them or not some healers would rather you keep DPS'ing on the boss then Clemency or vercure someone.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Stop worrying about DPS and actually help your party. That's what is the point of Red Mage. If you want DPS, go Black Mage.

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this is something i really don't like about red mage that this is all the class brings a rez/cure and the be BLM/SMN if you want to DPS
so picking red mage doesn't make you a DPS? just some insurance for healers or a excuse for healers to slack off and just go "what ever red mage can pick them up". I really hope they just do away with vercure and Verraise same with resurrection on SMN.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

this is something i really don't like about red mage that this is all the class brings a rez/cure and the be BLM/SMN if you want to DPS

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If you don't like it about Red Mage then don't play it. That's what I love about Red Mage and I'm glad I have that option.

I don't like the way the songs work on bard. Should they adapt bard to me, or should I adapt to bard or simply not play it?! Obviously I should be the one adapting or avoiding the class because even though the songs are a pain to deal with without either better memory than I have or more experience in it than I'm willing to put, they are perfectly fine from a design point.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

so picking red mage doesn't make you a DPS? just some insurance for healers or a excuse for healers to slack off and just go "what ever red mage can pick them up".

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Red Mage is a support DPS. It have much higher DPS than tanks and healers in general, but at the same time, it is expected to support the party. In case of bard that support comes from increasing damage dealt or allowing people to go all out with less worry for MP/TP. In case of Red Mage that support comes in the form of preventing a hold-back by death instead. But both are paying with their own personal DPS for the sake of making the run easier and faster. Yes, faster, because a Red Mage covering for a healers mistake (or another DPS's mistake that overburdens healers, really) can save a life which prevents a severe DPS loss. But the cost of that is that their own personal DPS falls noticeably behind the non-support DPS.

As for some healers not liking Vercure and Clemency...I don't care about that when I play a Red Mage or Paladin. I never use them because I want to. I use them because the healer is behind on doing their job. Whether their own fault, fault of DPS/tanks/co-healer that likes standing in the red during a damage-heavy phase or other things beyond their control doesn't matter. Choosing between saving the party from a potential wipe or not using what was given to me to suck up to an ignorant healer is an easy choice. No reasonable healer will complain about a Red Mage raising or providing pinch-heals. They're not used out of spite for healers or out of thinking the healers are incompetent. They are used because they are needed for whatever reason.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

If you don't like it about Red Mage then don't play it. That's what I love about Red Mage and I'm glad I have that option.


Red Mage is a support DPS. It have much higher DPS than tanks and healers in general, but at the same time, it is expected to support the party.

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now i would barley call it a "support class" when about every other DPS job besides SAM and BLM have just as much support as RDM does nor does the job even revolve around using its support tool like Bard
vercure and verraise don't even increase the job gauge so really doesn't mean much to me if i use them or not because the game play of RDM is still there and not effect at all if i use them or not (unless its to proc quick cast with vercure while boss is gone),
maybe next expansion when the jobs more fleshed out but right now its just a simple DPS with a Cure,a rez and a terrible party buff(which doesn't even helps healers and other casters).

if im expected to help out someone with RDM i will but i also expect to DPS with the job since that's its role.