Why is it "meta" for melee DPS to do the call-outs and countdowns?

I'm just curious about this -- I don't have a problem with it although I'm still learning the best times to do this, and during the heat of battle it can be hard to remember.

But I was wondering why it's the melee DPS that's responsible for the call-outs and countdowns. I would think that ranged would be a better option since they have a wider view of the field. I also feel like they have less overall responsibility -- they're not really in the thick of fights like a melee, and they're not strained like a healer.

Of course that's not to say they don't matter - they absolutely do and they can do some astounding damage. It just seems odd to place the call-outs on melee rather than ranged, or even tank for that matter.

Your thoughts?

What?

Never relied on a DPS to do callouts. Some talented people can, sure. But even as a tank main, I tell my group if I have to go DPS I'm not doing callouts. Unless it's something specific to DPS, like "I got this add" or in 11 savage where the melee calls out if they need a different color fist. On 06s we'd occasionally let a nin pull to start the countdown but that's kind of a weird situation because of the delay.

Never heard of this DPS calling out mechanics "meta"

But this is also in the PvP thread so I am thoroughly confused.

In my static it's usually either tanks or our caster.

He is not talking about countdown pull macro against pve bosses. He is talking about 4v4 feast when you are supposed to burst.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

What?

Never relied on a DPS to do callouts. Some talented people can, sure. But even as a tank main, I tell my group if I have to go DPS I'm not doing callouts. Unless it's something specific to DPS, like "I got this add" or in 11 savage where the melee calls out if they need a different color fist. On 06s we'd occasionally let a nin pull to start the countdown but that's kind of a weird situation because of the delay.

Never heard of this DPS calling out mechanics "meta"

But this is also in the PvP thread so I am thoroughly confused.

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Talking about Feast.



Melee do CDs because the ranged have an easier time getting to any target the melee calls, meanwhile the ranged may do a call to the healer that's way back in spawn and forces the melee into a bad spot and kills him.

That being said, anyone can do CDs. I tend to take over in my matches unless I'm matched with an equally experienced melee DPS.

Countdowns are much more reliant on the DPS player's cooldowns and resources. And who is going to know what they have available? Yeah, themselves.

It's as simple as that.

Im dying... PvE people speak about PvP x'D

That's a really good question, friend.

The reason why is because burst largely revolves around synchronisation to increase its chance at success.
This entails the team members timing their burst as close as possible to one another. Now, ranged players are indeed completely capable of calling things out and usually have a better view of what's actually going on on the map.
The only major problem here is that the highest quality of call-outs are those that are fast/unpredictable to the enemy team/cannot be stopped. If a ranged were to spearhead operations it would largely reduce the chances of achieving successful burst.
Why? Because the have no idea when the melee can actually follow up on it with their limitations in terms of the range of their abilities.
I do however encourage ranged players pitching in if they clearly see a better call and one which is more likely to succeed; just keep in mind that you pay attention to your team and whether they can join in on your call or not (applying to both DPS or anyone doing call-outs for that matter).

This is my personal opinion. Hope it helps!

PvE people coming to the PvP section and are confused why this is a PvP thread. Have no clue but just keep pushing that post counter :rolleyes:

As for the question why melee should do countdowns. It really comes down to how experienced one player is. If I see the melee or ranged have no idea about who to burst or keep bursting into defensives after the third countdown, then I will take over as tank.
When I play melee it can get pretty hectic and it's hard to keep track of everything important but I would not want my ranged to do the countdown because I'm not sure if I will be in range in time nor if I (and the WAR - assuming there's one) will be able to apply debuffs to boost my damage.

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Originally Posted by OSR

PvE people coming to the PvP section and are confused why this is a PvP thread. Have no clue but just keep pushing that post counter :rolleyes:

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I answered the question before I saw it was in the PvP threads

+2 post count :p

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

What?

Never relied on a DPS to do callouts. Some talented people can, sure. But even as a tank main, I tell my group if I have to go DPS I'm not doing callouts. Unless it's something specific to DPS, like "I got this add" or in 11 savage where the melee calls out if they need a different color fist. On 06s we'd occasionally let a nin pull to start the countdown but that's kind of a weird situation because of the delay.

Never heard of this DPS calling out mechanics "meta"

But this is also in the PvP thread so I am thoroughly confused.

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Well this will rank as one of the most pointless posts of all time.

It's probably a lot to do with the fact that a range can literally call and hit any target in feast, melee needs more prep time, so it's easier for the melee to call hard swaps rather than have a range call something I have no chance of engaging safely.

As NIN I have to get up shadow fang and build combo to edge (4 gcds) to get ready to burst, therefore it's easier for me to start the CD.

xD I actually had to scroll up and make sure I was in the PVP section because the first couple of posts were like "what?! Tank does that!"

But yes, I'm talking about Feast callouts/countdowns.

I guess because I play both DRG and BRD, I can see the pros/cons of both sides. DRG is almost always ready to burst since the skills and cooldowns move so fast. But with bard, I feel like there's only a limited window in which to really burst and everything else is about buildup and dots. In times like those, I wish they could tell me when they are ready.
Machinist even more-so, I know that they can pack a punch and be ready much faster (at least the good ones) - and in those times, sometimes I am struggling to keep up with them so we can coordinate.

As bard you're actually one of the jobs most well equipped to reactively respond to burst callouts. There is the downside of needing 2 gcds to setup dots on a fresh target, but the ability to pool your procs and use them only when needed is something not a lot of jobs have the luxury of.

Unlike PvE where you're encouraged to always use things on cooldown because sustained damage is what matters there, burst damage is a lot more important in PvP. Healing is tuned so strongly relative to sustained dps that for example, if you're just using your pitch perfect procs as they come, it's the equivalent of spitting into the wind and accomplishing nothing. If you expend a 3 stack and return to 0 at the same time your partner calls for burst - of course it puts you in a bad situation and is something that can be improved. Part of what constitutes skill is having a good read on the flow of the match and anticipating incoming burst windows, and starting to save your resources ahead of time to be ready for that. Bard can do that a lot more effectively than many other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

As bard you're actually one of the jobs most well equipped to reactively respond to burst callouts. There is the downside of needing 2 gcds to setup dots on a fresh target, but the ability to pool your procs and use them only when needed is something not a lot of jobs have the luxury of.

Unlike PvE where you're encouraged to always use things on cooldown because sustained damage is what matters there, burst damage is a lot more important in PvP. Healing is tuned so strongly relative to sustained dps that for example, if you're just using your pitch perfect procs as they come, it's the equivalent of spitting into the wind and accomplishing nothing. If you expend a 3 stack and return to 0 at the same time your partner calls for burst - of course it puts you in a bad situation and is something that can be improved. Part of what constitutes skill is having a good read on the flow of the match and anticipating incoming burst windows, and starting to save your resources ahead of time to be ready for that. Bard can do that a lot more effectively than many other jobs.

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You don't necessarily need both dots on your burst target to burst effectively. A common strat is to double dot a bluff target then swap to the real target and sneak one dot in before Sidewinder. Eventually you will throw people off. Is he going to bluff? Or is the double dot target the real target?

Also I'd like to add that while any role can be the shotcaller, even the ranged, it's still better for the melee to do it if they're experienced since in general the melee's positioning is more important for countdowns than the ranged. If you're doing callouts as ranged you don't know if your melee player's mobility is available and whether or not they can get to the target in time.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

I answered the question before I saw it was in the PvP threads

+2 post count :p

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pve in in 2018

FFXIV has PVP? where? :)