Old Zones and New Jobs

Just thinking - wouldn't it make the old zones relevant again if they started the new jobs at level one? And also to level sync dungeons down to the lowest level player?

It could help the brand new players sense of community a lot sooner

The only place that would have life would be Quarrymill for Palace of the Dead. They would need to have a new activity for older zones to bring people back to those areas.

To answer your first question: No, it wouldnt. The first 30 (or even 50) levels are nothing but a (fast) slug. It wouldnt serve for anything but to generate (a little) playtime if you had to get up those jobs from 1-30/50. Do you even remember getting your jobs from 1-15 until you were able to go into your first dungeon? I do. It didnt took long, but it also was extremly unfun, to only have 3 buttons, not even all being useful, not having actual rotations and trying to do level 3 FATEs with your chocobo - or just jumping straight into PotD.
How would having to grind 15 levels make the old zones relevant again? Not even the new zones actually are, besides beast tribes and hunts. The open world is pretty to look at, but most of the actual PvE-stuff happens in instances - personally I'd say thats for the best, seeing how well open-world bosses like S-ranks and special FATEs work...

To your second suggestion also: No. Dungeons will always be a 3 level range from the minimum level you need to enter, to the level you'll be synched to if you're above that. That seems more than enough to me. Please explain how it would make a difference to a new player or create a better sense of community if everyone in their party gets synched to their level, instead of being up to 3 higher? Honestly, I doubt it matters much - being level synched is painful enough at it is already and all you'll accomplish is taking away more stats and skills from players who have outleveled the content long, long ago.
Quite frankly I believe this would do more harm than good - I cant see any good, but I could see the potential harm of not only being upset that you got a low-level dungeon at a high level, but furthermore being rob off a skill you'd get with the next level because that sprout happen to be just at the entry level.

Palace of the Dead is not, actually, all that great. You don't get experience from mobs there, only the fixed experience from finishing the dungeon. But you know what?! That experience doesn't get a bonus from having a high level character.

If a person have maxed character they will level faster through regular dungeons at lower levels. They get such a massive bonus (I think about 200% at ~lvl 30) that it will significantly outdo the palace of the dead experience. You can actually get two levels from a single standard run of a dungeon easily. I have never gotten two levels from palace of the dead as far as I remember.

Now...I may actually remember it wrong, but it's a food for though for those that do still use the palace heavily. It may prove a good idea to go and do the highest level dungeon available to check whether you're really using your time efficiently. Unless you're DPS without a healer/tank friend...Then yeah...


As for the job from lvl 1, there is a lot of good to it. It will be available as a starting class for new players/characters, for one. It will not require going through tons of quests to unlock either, making newer players have a lot of time to familiarize themselves with their preferred class rather than having to "slog" through 50/60 levels of a class they do not even want playing (which makes the slog that much worse).

Sadly, everyone would just do PotD and even if they didn't it wouldn't revive fates when dungeons are still better exp, and they have to be for the sake of queue times.

Also, it's not related but maybe it is in an indirect sort of way, but I actually hate having new job quests in old zones. Why am I doing level 60-70 quests in La Noscea when I should be in Doma or Ala Mheigo.

As long as side quests give jack for xp and there's no non-dungeon-crawler way to level, nope. PotD takes maybe 20m to go from 51-60, and the xp at the end of that is far more than you'd get grinding mobs. And trying to encourage nothing but grinding mobs as a way to level sounds like Pagos all over again, tysvm no.

They'd have to put some sort of alternative questline with msq-equivalent xp to even come close to being as efficient as PotD. FATEs are already everybody's bane; they could drop candy, mounts, and housing deeds and people still wouldn't want to do them.

Ugh, nooooo thank you. I remember levelling Machinist and Astrologian because I wanted to try them out since the moment I started playing and didn't want to progress the HW storyline until they were both caught up.

I didn't know about POTD at the time (well I did but didn't realise I could use it for levelling) so the process of catching up on both of them was the worst, most mind-numbing, repetitive log and dungeon grind. By the end of it (reaching 50-something, where my scholar was), all my excitement for those jobs had vaporised and I was this close to never playing them again.

Eventually I returned to Machinist and forced myself to keep levelling because I love playing gun classes and I didn't want to give up on it without giving it a real chance. It was ONLY after like... level 62? 64? That the Heat gauge mechanics were functional and the whole job actually started to make sense. And I decided I liked end-game MCH after all.
Even so, I never ever do 50/60 or levelling roulette on MCH anymore. I simply refuse to play it at any level below 70, it's a horrible jumbled mess that only, only works at the level cap. I still love it... but its design is a travesty and you can't truly appreciate just how bad unless you've levelled it up the hard way. I really could have done without that experience.

I tried to do the same for Astrologian but even after getting it to 70, it just failed to click with me, completely not my kind of healer, absolutely subjective playstyle incompatibility, and what's worse, I didn't enjoy the story. In the end I decided that the time I'd invested into levelling it was a total waste and I wished I could get days of my life back. I think once my goldsmith desynth is high enough I'm going to put my star globe through the blender and pretend it was just an embarrassing phase my character was going through, which we should both put behind us and never speak of again.

On the other hand, I never had the same problem with Red Mage and Samurai. They both start at a level where their kits are basically complete, containing all the tools you need to learn the basic rotations their gameplay revolves around from that point on, and then further levels just add more intricacies on top of that. Also, I appreciate the trust. Both jobs immediately plunge you into deep water, but by that point (lvl 50) you are already expected to know how to swim.

Anyways, done ranting now, back to the point: new jobs should start at a level that best demonstrates their core gameplay. There is no reason for a job unlocked at level 50 and gated behind an expansion and a lengthy MSQ prelude to start you off at level 1, 30 or really anything below 50. If you're far along in the game to be playing an expansion, you shouldn't need to be introduced to every individual ability one level at a time, you can get that from reading tooltips and doing job quests. At that point, the game revolves around complete rotations and that's what the introductory level of a new job should already be able to emphasise, allowing you to decide whether you like it or not without asking for an upfront time commitment.

Maybe give an option when picking up the new Jobs to start at either level 30/50 or level 1. I would have loved the option to have started my machinist and red mage etc at level 1 rather than being forced to start them at 30 and 50. I was completely overwhelmed by getting all the abilities at once rather than getting them one at a time by leveling up from 1.

But i also know that's not for everyone, which is why an option would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Bubble_Oseven

Maybe give an option when picking up the new Jobs to start at either level 30/50 or level 1. I would have loved the option to have started my machinist and red mage etc at level 1 rather than being forced to start them at 30 and 50. I was completely overwhelmed by getting all the abilities at once rather than getting them one at a time by leveling up from 1.

But i also know that's not for everyone, which is why an option would be nice.

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PotD is actually a good way to do that. Go in at floor 1 and you start at level 1, and you get your skills gradually. It's how I learned to play RDM. I don't advocate learning "base gameplay" in PotD because aggro is usually nonexistent and the mobs are glass cannons, but for actually learning what skills do, it can be quite useful. Just go in by yourself or with 1-2 other people just so that you're not lawnmowering everything.

New jobs starting at level 1 means SE needs to implement new weapons from level 1 to 29/49. I do not see that happening.

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Originally Posted by InkstainedGwyn

PotD is actually a good way to do that. Go in at floor 1 and you start at level 1, and you get your skills gradually. It's how I learned to play RDM. I don't advocate learning "base gameplay" in PotD because aggro is usually nonexistent and the mobs are glass cannons, but for actually learning what skills do, it can be quite useful. Just go in by yourself or with 1-2 other people just so that you're not lawnmowering everything.

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Potd isn't my cup of tea. I prefer slower leveling to learn my class and getting there is half the fun for me. But I very much realize I'm in the minority feeling that way, which is why an option would be nice. That way those who want end game/max level or who don't enjoy the lower levels can still get there like they currently can, but still allows someone who feels as I do to enjoy playing our way too.

I know it won't actually happen, just musing how nice it would be.

The problem with zones like the world map is there is no incentive for players to go out there beyond the MSQ and gathering low lvl mats.

This could be remedied a few ways:

1) For crafting Glamour gear/high lvl gear/etc/ low lvl fates would drop specific mats for those items
2) There would be high lvl nodes/gathering minigames located on lower lvl mats that would encourage people to return to those mats for specialty materials
3) More side quest lines that expand on lore and take you through zones
4) High Lvl content in low lvl zones that is only accessible once reaching those levels
5) More map goals (exploration as an example)

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Originally Posted by ArumatKelewae

New jobs starting at level 1 means SE needs to implement new weapons from level 1 to 29/49. I do not see that happening.

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That's pretty much why they don't do it, too much work.

I also don't think it would revive the older areas at all considering how quickly those levels go.

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Originally Posted by Bubble_Oseven

Maybe give an option when picking up the new Jobs to start at either level 30/50 or level 1. I would have loved the option to have started my machinist and red mage etc at level 1 rather than being forced to start them at 30 and 50. I was completely overwhelmed by getting all the abilities at once rather than getting them one at a time by leveling up from 1.

But i also know that's not for everyone, which is why an option would be nice.

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As a RDM main, the idea of leveling from Level 1 with only Riposte makes me shiver.

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Originally Posted by Ticks

Just thinking - wouldn't it make the old zones relevant again if they started the new jobs at level one? And also to level sync dungeons down to the lowest level player?

It could help the brand new players sense of community a lot sooner

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If new players want a sense of the community, they need to get to max level. That's where the community is at. As so it is written :p

This is why the game has tons of things to help new players catch up quickly. Granted, they do things to slow down progress of veteran players as well. New players don't need the community to remain in older content to experience the game. The majority of it is solo anyway.

Owyeah.. starting at lvl 1. People with multiple max level characters will love to... do palace of the dead more. Because most of the old zones are questless and there is no reason to be there anymore, its not like you can level effectively by just killing npc's

If people don't want to level jobs anymore, new jobs might as well come out at level cap then. What's the point if no one wants to actually play the game to level them?

It's like all of a sudden now that PotD/HoH is the "best way" to level, it's the only way to level and if you don't want to PotD/HoH you don't want to or can't level anymore.

To those who don't want to level a new job and jump into content ASAP we have a solution for that now. It's called a jump potion. Let the people who want to level, level and if you don't want to? Pay up.

I would love to start new jobs at level one because my only major disappointment with the game was discovering that I couldn't, with Heavensward. Other than that my attitude is pretty easygoing. There's always a positive side and I try to look at it that way - the addition of new jobs is a good thing - but leveling is such an integral part of my playing experience that it frustrated me, which isn't usually the case with anything new. Normally I'm a "more is better" person. It just got to me because unlike things that might have been or changes to combat and instanced fights, taking a job from level one to thirty or fifty was absolutely something I enjoyed and spent a significant amount of time working toward.

I know I'm the odd one out, or at least in the minority, but those are my feelings on the subject in general.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

If people don't want to level jobs anymore, new jobs might as well come out at level cap then. What's the point if no one wants to actually play the game to level them?

It's like all of a sudden now that PotD/HoH is the "best way" to level, it's the only way to level and if you don't want to PotD/HoH you don't want to or can't level anymore.

To those who don't want to level a new job and jump into content ASAP we have a solution for that now. It's called a jump potion. Let the people who want to level, level and if you don't want to? Pay up.

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Personally, I like leveling and learning the job while going along, but lets not kind ourselves here: most jobs are extremly boring at low levels and so is the content you can do to level. I have all jobs except for monk at level 70 and I enjoyed leveling all of them - however... FATE-grinds for those first 15 levels were never fun.

The level 30 from HW seemed like a good idea to me - level 50 in SB might be considered a bit much, granted.
But skipping the slug of the early levels with only 2 buttons to press? Yes, please! They're not fun, they're not intresting and I'm not learning a thing about the job!

I really don't want to start any new jobs at level 1, it's such a pain to reach level 16, then 50, then 60, then 70 and lastly 80, if you like a particular job then there is no excuse to not learn it well regardless of the level said job is unlocked, but forcing players to level up 80 times is not the best solution, it's not fun at all!...



A better solution for old zones is to give them new dungeons and other things to do on the maps in order to give them more relevance without burdening players doing too much!...


A much better solution would be to completely remake old zones and not only give them flying support but also adding new mechanics like dynamic seasons so the whole areas would change in appearance depending on the time of the year!...

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Personally, I like leveling and learning the job while going along, but lets not kind ourselves here: most jobs are extremly boring at low levels and so is the content you can do to level.

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You're still missing a very important thing. New jobs are supposed to be content for all players, but unless they start from level one, they are only for experienced ones. If they do not start at level 1, you cannot play them as a new player, period.

In different games you have to start a new character to play a new class. That's why it's obvious they will start from scratch. You also won't be able to have all the classes usually since the games tend to have limited character slots...that number less than the amount of classes available. No one complains about leveling a new character though, you know why?! Because they cannot take the new class for granted. They have no option but to buck up and start from scratch because it's illogical to make a new character at level higher than lvl1.

It's a simple matter, really. You are taking these classes for granted. You take advantage of the feature of having several classes on one character and want it to be custom-fit to your order. Because you don't have to do anything to get them anymore. You have your character leveled, your story finished up. You will have those classes as soon as they hit. The new players...won't. The will not be able to play them AT ALL until after they will be experienced. Until after they went through the MOST BORING and MOST DRAGGING part of the game. And unlike you...they will do all that without a nice, big boost of 200% to experience or Palace of the Dead at all. They'll have to drudge their way using a class they don't want, they don't care for at all...spending days or weeks depending on how much free time they have...so that you save that one or two days of grinding to get these classes up there with all those speed-up features you have unlocked, without the need to do any story.

That's hypocrisy on the developers side. They claim to be "defenders of the new players", what with the changes to Main Story roulette that HURTS majority of the community for a minority within minority of new players (many new players don't care bout cutscenes and many of those that do have no issues with watching them later/in the Inn) or with the change to cross-class that allowed people to ignore other classes. But at this, where they REALLY hurt players forcing them to spend many hours upon hours doing what they don't want just so that they could finally unlock the class they did want to play at. But then...they never managed to have the fun with that class up till then, they're suddenly thrown into high level content that they didn't yet do, unless they'll waste even more time going through all that they did with a class they didn't care for completely pointlessly.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

Personally, I like leveling and learning the job while going along, but lets not kind ourselves here: most jobs are extremly boring at low levels and so is the content you can do to level. I have all jobs except for monk at level 70 and I enjoyed leveling all of them - however... FATE-grinds for those first 15 levels were never fun.

The level 30 from HW seemed like a good idea to me - level 50 in SB might be considered a bit much, granted.
But skipping the slug of the early levels with only 2 buttons to press? Yes, please! They're not fun, they're not intresting and I'm not learning a thing about the job!

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Leveling is so ridiculously easy in this game that I have to say, it's 100% your fault if you restrict leveling to just FATEs, roulettes and PotD. You have:

Challenge Log
- 2 dungeon entries
- 2 guildhest entries
- 2 FATE entries
- 2 guildleve entries
- commendation entry

Open World Activities
- Guildleves at Lv5-Lv60
- FATEs
- Beast Tribes at Lv40-50, Lv50-60 and Lv60-70
- Centurio Hunts at Lv50-70 and likely to 80
- Sightseeing Log at Lv50-70(HW and SB give EXP)

Duties
- Dungeons on their own(Also Squadrons!)
- Leveling Roulette
- 50-70(?) Roulette
- Main Story Quest Roulette
- Alliance Raid Roulette
- Normal Raid Roulette
- Trial Roulette
- Guildhest Roulette
- First time Guildhest clear bonus
- PvP Roulette
- Frontline on it's own
- Feast
- Palace of The Dead/Heaven-On-High
- Hall of the Novice first time bonus

EXP Bonuses
- Armoury bonus
- Well-rested bonus
- Company action bonus(Up to 15%)
- Food bonus
- Brand New Ring Bonus
- Ala Mhigan Earring Bonus
- Friendship Circlet bonus
- WoL Helmet bonus
- Mentor/Mentee bonus
- Various MogStation items with bonus

So, if you have all that and cut it down to only FATE spam, dungeon spam, or PotD spam because you wanna be "super fast", yeah, that's 100% on you for ignoring 90% of options available to you and challenge log that give a ton of exp.

Oh and again, if you are tired of having 2 skills and leveling a job, do the right thing and buy a jump potion to skip all the way to 60 or 70. Don't try and take away the leveling experience from those who enjoy it while still keeping Jump Potions, that already makes them useless.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

So, if you have all that and cut it down to only FATE spam, dungeon spam, or PotD spam because you wanna be "super fast", yeah, that's 100% on you for ignoring 90% of options available to you and challenge log that give a ton of exp.

Oh and again, if you are tired of having 2 skills and leveling a job, do the right thing and buy a jump potion to skip all the way to 60 or 70. Don't try and take away the leveling experience from those who enjoy it while still keeping Jump Potions, that already makes them useless.

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...you realised that I was talking about the boring part up to level 16 right? You know, the part where most duties are locked? The part where you are infact restricted to FATEs and PotD?
And that I said that starting at level 30 seems like a decent compromise to me because at level 30 you do have a lot of those options you mentioned - instead of being restricted to FATEs, PotD and if you wanna stretch it leves.

I'm not trying to take away the leveling experience thats actually intresting - I'm just glad that I dont have to do the 1-16-FATE-grind-with-chocobo ever again. Or did you seriously enjoyed THAT?

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Originally Posted by Vidu

...you realised that I was talking about the boring part up to level 16 right? You know, the part where most duties are locked? The part where you are infact restricted to FATEs and PotD?
And that I said that starting at level 30 seems like a decent compromise to me because at level 30 you do have a lot of those options you mentioned - instead of being restricted to FATEs, PotD and if you wanna stretch it leves.

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Yes. You have Guildleves starting at Lv5 that give enormous EXP, Guildhests at Lv10, and FATEs straight out of the gate. All 3 of those have challenge log entrees that give another giant chunk of exp each when complete.

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I'm not trying to take away the leveling experience thats actually intresting - I'm just glad that I dont have to do the 1-16-FATE-grind-with-chocobo ever again. Or did you seriously enjoyed THAT?

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Yep.