This thought spurred a question in my head about what if, in the normal raids, there were no loot restrictions/lockouts, from day 1, but still need at least 7 of those special tokens which remained once a week? I think I wouldn't mind it and I'd be able to gear up my other jobs a little quicker. The caveat to this is still having the weekly loot lockouts in Savage because SE would likely never change that.
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10-14-2018, 09:45 AMAdamuKun322What if there were no loot restrictions in normal mode raids from release day?
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10-14-2018, 09:57 AMRosentretter
People tend to burn the content really quick and get bored in a few weeks. With this suggestion you make it'll cause people to get bored sooner and probably the queues will be longer. After gearing all their classes they won't do it again.
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10-14-2018, 10:27 AMDracotheDragon
the main issue is, if they had done that, then people would farm only the fourth fight, leaving no-one to do the first three, anyone new would face horrendous queues, if it was a mission they would be done as soon as reset has happened and then be dead for the week, still just as bad, the way the rewards are split is to attempt to maximise the amount of times people do the content over the spread until the next patch.
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10-14-2018, 10:33 AMAdamuKun322
Yeah I see what you're saying. It was just a thought another streamer on twitch bought up.
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10-14-2018, 02:24 PMAstarotha
id rather they add a weekly drop similar to pages so those with absolute shit luck dont run something 15 times in a day and get nothing from it
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10-14-2018, 05:34 PMRhus
I would prefer a time system or something. Then I can pick what I want and don't have to keep running because I can't seem to roll above a 8 for that darn shaft lol
Fight 1 - 200
Fight 2 - 250
Fight 3 - 300
Fight 4 - 350
Total: 1000 per week capped
Now if accs cost 1000, feet arms and head 1250, belt 1300 and body legs 1500. That's 13150. So 13 weeks of running and you'll be able to afford a whole set. (Okay you'd need to run 1 on week 14 but you could tweak numbers to make it work in 13 or less) same idea as the weekly tomes except these would be separate and gained through that raid teir. -
10-14-2018, 05:52 PMFynlarQuote:
So 13 weeks of running and you'll be able to afford a whole set.
Considering you can currently get a whole set now in maybe half that time, can't say that's an improvement. Stuff can't take too long to obtain in a game like this; shelf life is already pathetically short as it is.
For your proposed system to work the accessories would need to cost a lot less. -
10-14-2018, 05:54 PMRymm
Only difference would be those people who whine and complain about the loot restrictions now would instead be whining and complaining about a "content drought" because they have nothing worth doing anymore after the first week of a patch drop.
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10-15-2018, 08:27 AMRhusPossibly I'm not saying it's the right way and I did only pick the numbers out thin air seconds before doing the post so it's far from something I'd put in an official request if I was to do so. Was just ramblings of a system I'd like to see.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
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10-15-2018, 08:33 AMBerteaux_Braumegain
You know how whenever a new EX fight is added there will be about 30 parties for it Week 1, but then about 5 or less by Week 3?
Raids would pretty much be like that without weekly restrictions. -
10-15-2018, 09:35 AMSenorPatty
I'd rather have a guaranteed token loot and then a limited loot. "Being bored" is a poor excuse because I can tell ya by the time you're in alpha2 for 11th time cuz you can't get the loot you want, not only you're already bored but you're also irritated.
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10-15-2018, 10:33 AMBourne_Endeavor
Normal mode would be dead within 2-3 weeks. What incentive do people have to continuously queue if they can farm drops to their hearts content? Furthermore, this change also destroys the crafting market since people have no need to purchase gear when they can farm the same ilvl for free. And that is your alternative if you want to gear other jobs. Either you deal with RNG or you spend gil.
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10-15-2018, 11:56 AMIlyrianI'd think even sooner than that. You could gear every slot in a day, certainly in 1 week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
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10-15-2018, 08:57 PMBright-Flower
If there was no loot restriction on day 1, I'd have finished my tanking and striking sets within the first week, maybe 2 if bad loot luck, and I wouldn't have any reason to touch Alphascape anymore.
The game needs these loot restrictions. There isn't enough content without them. -
10-15-2018, 09:26 PMMaeroQuote:
Originally Posted by Astarotha
Exactly this ^Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorPatty
Or they can change the loot system entirely and we all know how bad of a rng system this game has.
Every raid i always end up not getting loot so instead of running 20+ i now just run a few times each as i just do not care anymore, lol -
10-15-2018, 09:34 PMIlanWhat if there were not loot restrictions? You would've to run in there way more often to get all your stuff because everyone would roll on everything all the time. Sure its annoying to wait but thats how SE streches the content.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamuKun322
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10-15-2018, 10:39 PMKisaiTenshiYou'd see the number of tomes given out cut, or the cost go up. SE's not going to make it so that people with more time than sense to be able to gear all their jobs in a short amount of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamuKun322
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10-15-2018, 10:50 PMFynlar
Honestly, I don't really see what the big harm is in allowing overachievers to grind the hell out of content to gear everything they want, before it all becomes stale anyway.
It seems to me like some people want to pretend the game doesn't already suffer from "welp, got nothing else left to do now" syndrome for the majority of the time in any given week due to the copious weekly limits on things, and that by forcing them to spread out their progress over several weeks, it will somehow encourage these people to remain subbed. I find this highly doubtful, considering how absurdly easy catchup already is in this game even with the weekly limits. -
10-16-2018, 02:37 AMDrWho2010
if there were no loot restrictions then they would just change the way the drop system works. you would not get 4 pieces to lot on, you would only get 1 and which piece appears would be random. so say for O9 it drops bolts, chain and pedal. you could then possibly run it like 10-20 times and never see a bolt drop in the chest. would you really want that?
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10-16-2018, 02:49 AMAxlStream
To me limitted loot aint a problem. What is a problem is the fights taking longer than their savage counterparts... except 4 as its just a longer version of 4s faust
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10-16-2018, 03:40 AMNezerius
It'd completely invalidate crafted gear. Why bother with gathering mats/spending gil on mats/spending gil on the finished product, when you can just spam Alphascape for gear with the same iLvl?
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10-16-2018, 04:11 AMKuroka
on the oppisite its silly, i may just make all the crafted set and done, i for myself dont even know what to get with the tokken... at least let the gear be on par with the tome gear OR let us upgrade it...
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10-16-2018, 06:21 AMDeceptusBecause there's zero effort involved in buying crafted gear and you could have it all in one day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
You still have to outroll others and everyone would be rolling on EVERYTHING. -
10-16-2018, 06:50 AMTempest222
I find I actually come away with something more often when there is a loot lock. Or maybe I’m just imagining it. I feel like on older raids I would usually come away with nothing, and I figured it was because one or two people can win multiple pieces, leaving most people with nothing. I know rarely I’ve been the one to win 2-3 pieces, and it wasn’t because people weren’t rolling for it. So given that, I prefer to have the lock for new stuff so I can I don’t have to spam the things a zillion times just to get gear for my main job.
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10-16-2018, 07:37 AMNezeriusLooking at your signature, I'm sure there's zero effort involved for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deceptus
The average player doesn't have all crafters/gatherers at 70, let alone have the gear to craft everything on day one of a patch.
Currently, the player has the option to go with a gearing method that gets them a set of gear over the course of a month, or dropping gil to speed up the process and obtaining full i380 in the first week.
Remove the loot lockout, and they'll just be spamming Alphascape for the first week to get to full i380, removing the advantage that crafted gear has. -
10-16-2018, 08:58 AMAstarotha
im all for the weekly loot restriction, but just to drive home how borked the current system is my friend ran o12 literally like 50 times this week, the only way she finally won something is cause NOBODY ELSE ROLLED ON IT
at least if there was a 1/week guaranteed drop like the crystalloids work it means you could run it till it stops being fun and leave with the fallback that eventually you can buy the part you want, similar to the 99 totem mount fallback (but dont put the prices at 99, more like 2-4), instead of feeling like youre forced to run it past the point you absolutely hate and never want to run it again because rng is being a dick -
10-16-2018, 09:14 AMIlanWhy would i get the gear from alphascape if the crafted gear is better? Sure i could do that for classes i don't play often but for the ones i play crafted gear is way easier to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
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10-16-2018, 09:22 AMMesarthim
To this day I've only ever ran O11N once and that was on release night. Within the week I made myself a full crafted set for both tank and dps (healer is working on tome). I even bought the O11N music, eScape, just so I wouldn't have to bother with running it anymore. It's why I keep up to date with crafting. I'd rather make my own gear than play with RNG.
I have absolutely no reason to run 9, 10, or 11 now. -
10-16-2018, 10:06 AMAcidblood
I actually prefer it with the weekly restrictions in place (or at least the 1-piece-per-run part), because then your odds improve with each piece that gets taken, and better yet for the less desired pieces (as opposed to no restrictions and everyone just rolls on everything ‘because’).
Also, tomestones are the 'fall-back'... i.e. I don't know why everyone only wants the shafts, just buy the tomestone chest piece in week 2 guaranteed! (which then lets you get the hands in week 1, and legs in week 3).
That said, if they were to implement a token type system:
- Each encounter (e.g. O9, O10, 011, O12) should give you a token (for that encounter) ONLY if you haven’t gotten a loot drop from it for the week.
- 10 tokens should then be tradable for an item from the respective encounter (e.g. O9 tokens = bolt, chain, pedal), and that item should count as your weekly loot drop for that encounter.
This way no one has to run a single encounter more than 10 times per week (which seems fair to me), but you can't progress any faster by 'farming’*, at least not until the weekly restrictions are removed (at which point you could get 1 extra item per 10 runs that you didn’t get a drop from, which again, seems fair to me)
* At best you could ‘skip’ an encounter for the week if you had saved up 10 tokens, but doing so would have required you to continue doing the encounter (without getting a drop) in previous weeks, so you’ve already done more runs than was required. -
10-16-2018, 11:44 AMNezeriusThat'll depend on which stats are preferred by each job, and the player's willingness of going through the complete "joy" of the overmelding system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
Easier to get if you have Gil, crafters leveled (and geared) or have geared crafter friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
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10-16-2018, 05:15 PMLunafreya
I run normal raids last min and always seem to get my loot faster.
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10-16-2018, 05:52 PMDercetoThis philosophy can be applied to the current system. People get their weekly item, then never touch it again until next week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosentretter
How many people here run Alphas after they got their weekly items, because they are "so much fun"? Don't everyone raise your hands at once. -
10-16-2018, 06:05 PMvan_arn
*sheepishly raises a hand*
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10-16-2018, 07:53 PMDzianThe problem is stuff can and in some cases does take far too long to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynlar
The reason for that is simply life span. Gear simply doesn't last long enough to warrant it taking a long time or lot of effort to get. This is a big reason people don't touch savage. The lifespan of The reward doesn't justify the extra time and effort that needs to be invested.
If gear is going to take a long time to get then it needs to last a lot longer otherwise it just isn't worthwhile.
You simply cannot make it take 13 weeks to get a set if it's only going to last a matter of days once done. This is one of the reasons people tire of the treadmill. No sooner do you. finish a set of tome gear before it's time to start replacing it or augmenting it. And as soon as you finish that a new tier of gear is released... -
10-16-2018, 08:39 PMIlanThats why i said if its better and if the stats are better you don't even have to overmeld, which isn't that bad btw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezerius
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10-17-2018, 10:16 PMNezeriusYour initial wording only includes the first half of this, and the message is easily conveyed as you saying that crafted gear is better in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
Something along the lines of this would've been much more clear: "Why would I get a piece from Alphascape, if it's crafted equivalent has stats better suited to the job it's for?"
As someone who has been overmelding DoH/L sets since 2.0, I find it a terrible system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
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10-17-2018, 10:24 PMBourne_EndeavorExcept they still have to queue every week. I farmed normal mode for several months to gear alt jobs. If I could get everything I wanted whenever I wanted, I'd farm week one/two and never look at normal mode again for the duration of the tier. So people who came along say, week five, wouldn't see me in the queue because I've long done farming everything I wanted. Whereas with the current system, I'm providing them a queue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Derceto
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10-17-2018, 10:58 PMSkivvyThis sums up my thoughts nicely. To add to this, it's a big reason why I've never really branched out trying to play more than 2 jobs. I have several at 70, but I only bother keeping my WHM and RDM geared up. It feels like such a chore to gear up using raids/tomes, and by the time you outfit a couple, a new ilvl is on the horizon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzian
If they are unable to unlock tomes/raid drops, or increase the amount, I'd love for them to change the weekly caps to be per job, or at the very least job type (healing/casting/tanking/DPS).
To expand a wee bit more. The usual reply to this comment has been "But you don't need top ilvl unless you are doing savage/ultimate". And while that is very true, there is something in me that still wants to try and gear my jobs the best I can. Sure, I can just buy crafted gear the day the patch drops, and that would be 100% OK for the content I run. But then what do I do with the rest of my time since I am now 'sufficiently' geared? Why bother running all those roulettes and raids? The same problem would rear it's ugly head. I'd be bored to death, have no reason to run anything, and probably just unsub again.
So it's a dual-edged sword I'd say. I'm sure there are others like me who would love to gear up other jobs, but feel it's not worth the effort due to the amount of time it takes to do so. And yes, of course there would be people who gear up within a week, and then sit there twiddling their thumbs.
I do think that expanding the weekly tomes/raid gear drops to be per job-type would be a decent middle ground. This would let people gear up a tank, healer, caster, melee at the same rate (if they choose to do so). -
10-17-2018, 11:30 PMBourne_EndeavorThe reason they haven't done something like this due to it completely invalidating catch up patches. Not to mention, you'll gear so quickly, people will likely unsub that much faster. Case in point, I've collected 2,250 tomes. Spacing that across each job type...Quote:
Originally Posted by Skivvy
Tanks - One week away from being done with tome BiS
Melee - Dragoon is done tome BiS as of week four
Caster - Will be finished tome BiS as of week six
Healers - Crit focused tome BiS finsihed
This extends slightly longer if you opt to purchase a tome weapon, however every role will be completely done as of two months. If we assume a full tome set, you're done by week twelve (fourteen if you count the weapon) for each type. Now the devs have nothing to incentivize people to run content for the remaining four months.