1. Are they a new player?
2. Did they recently change their UI/Binds or both?
3. Are they having a bad day or are they feeling sick?
Could be any of these things or more preventing someone from performing well. and to be fair most of the time I find it is.
Things to think about before you call someone "Bad"
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10-08-2018, 05:09 AMSylvinaThings to think about before you call someone "Bad"
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10-08-2018, 05:18 AMRemus
1. If they are a new player it's not hard for them to say they are a new player.
2. If they changed their UI/Binds then they should maybe get used to these changes before doing a dungeon.
3. If you are sick then I would be resting trying to get better instead of playing FFXIV or if I'm having a bad day then I will maybe run with friends.
What's with this forum trying to find ways to say people playing bad is fine? -
10-08-2018, 05:18 AMNixxe
I'll preface this by saying I don't think people should harass or antagonize others, but it is absolutely insane how people make such a fuss out of the idea that people are bad at a video game, as though informing someone they are playing poorly is intrinsically an attack on their value as a person. If someone tells you that you're bad, maybe just shrug your shoulders and move on with your day because it doesn't really matter one way or the other. If you'd like to change that, there are plenty of self-help resources out there to help you improve at the game.
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10-08-2018, 05:19 AMValkyrie_Lenneth
In that case, they should probably not be doing harder content at first. the "new player" excuse should have worn off by level 70, and changing your UI immediately before doing an EX primal or anything remotely difficult should be a no-no, practice in a dungeon or on a dummy first.
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10-08-2018, 05:20 AMZephera
None of these are excuses in high end content.
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10-08-2018, 05:24 AMLaurontThat's a pretty bold statement. Just asking someone or being volunteered any of the above as an excuse doesn't mean it's the genuine answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvina
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10-08-2018, 05:29 AMSylvinaGetting used to UI changes as someone who's changed their UI a few times I can tell you for certain requires more than just dummy tests, especially if you are not dps. I never said its fine to be bad, everyone should try their best to get better. but shaming people for being bad does not help anyone get better. it only displays a bad attitude.Quote:
Originally Posted by Remus
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10-08-2018, 05:29 AMSylvinaI agree. but in normal content dungeons etc? it is most of the time. people need to actually play to get a real feel for their controls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephera
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10-08-2018, 05:37 AMSomeRandomHuman
1. Are they a new player? Not if there's no new person bonus and they're just eating every aoe and ignoring every mechanic without even trying.
2. Did they Recently change their UI? Should've spent a little more time in things like overworld fates, leves, etc, or unsync some of the HW leveling dungeons to get a feel for it.
3. Bad day/Feeling sick? Load up your weapon, shut up, and lets get the ride over with/Turn the game off and go rest or do something less intense.
I don't mean to be rude or condescending, but people use these excuses to just be lazy and not care. Its a problem that can't be addressed because its spilled over into places it shouldn't be and you gotta clean all the mess, not just the source.
I don't deny that they may be telling the truth, but there is content for any situation or circumstance that someone can do instead of end-game content if they're not up to perform reasonably. -
10-08-2018, 05:44 AMBourne_Endeavor1. I'll assume new to that particular piece of content since the new player excuse should be over long before level 70. In that instance, I'll be more patent, however... I expect some basic understanding of mechanics. o12n shows some people still don't know how stacks work...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvina
2. This is a personal problem you should resolve on your own time. Whenever I adjust my UI, I purposely hit a dummy or run something like a 24 man where I can get accustom to it without impacting anyone else.
3. Once again, this is a personal problem. Because you're having a bad day, I now have to deal with you being a liability? If you cannot perform adequately for whatever reason, simply don't queue into content. As others have said, if you're sick enough you can't focus, you should probably be in bed, resting. Not playing video games. -
10-08-2018, 05:54 AMLiam_Harper
To me the only thing that matters is how they take friendly advice. Only when someone takes friendly advice and ignores it or returns it with insults and continues playing in a way that hinders the group, would I decide they were "bad". Or if they just start outright with a rude or unfriendly attitude.
If they mess up a few times and apologize, it's fine. If they actually did the mechanic, but misunderstood something it's fine and great they're trying. If they actually had a bad day or felt sick it's fine, I can be sympathetic, that sucks. If they hadn't done that dungeon in ages and forgot it, it's fine, happy to give a recap. New player, that's fine, take the time to get more experience, I can be patient. Anxiety, definitely fine, I understand that and anxious players can do amazing things without any stress.
I can understand where the community comes from in where its frustrating when players don't want to try, but sometimes players get far too agressive against the "bads" and forget slip ups can happen and at the end of the day we play a game to relax and have fun with other human beings, not as a crazy efficiency drive. Too many people automatically assume the other players in their group are idiots who don't put in effort or care, the moment the slightest thing goes wrong. -
10-08-2018, 06:23 AMNessaWyvern
Things to think about if someone says you're bad:
Am I doing anything wrong? Did I die more than others/consistently get hit by aoes/do mechanics wrong/play my class wrong? If yes, try to fix (practice in practice parties more, get services that reduce ping, practice doing your rotation in lower end duties, like 24man or eureka)
If I am playing poorly, maybe I should do this content with friends/FC instead
If am not playing poorly, then the guy who told me I was bad might be sick and irritable, had a lot of bad runs before, or a jerk. Just think to yourself they are just some random on the Internet who doesn't mean anything to you, and either stay and get the run done, or leave. -
10-08-2018, 06:38 AMAppleJinx
Things to consider if you are "bad": Don't be.
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10-08-2018, 06:41 AMLambdafishWhy should 7 other people have to deal with that though? None of those things are anyone's responsibility except the player being called bad. Perhaps if people took responsibility for their skill and how they are performing we would have better players. As it stands we have people going on the forums trying to defend bad play and saying "think before you call them bad".Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvina
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10-08-2018, 06:43 AMReap00
Before you post a response in these forums perhaps you should remember this is only a video game. Get a grip people. Seriously.
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10-08-2018, 06:48 AMdotsforlife
Just give em the ole reliable (Vote Dismiss).
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10-08-2018, 06:51 AMWitchOfMiraclesThis I so agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by Liam_Harper
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10-08-2018, 06:53 AMDaibunnie1. If you’re at end game doing level 70 dungeons, you’re not exactly a new player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvina
2. The point of changing the ui is to easily access the tools you need. This is not an excuse to play like garbage.
3. If you’re having a bad day, you should just apologize and leave the party instead of being a burden to the remaining 3/7/23 players. -
10-08-2018, 07:11 AMSylvina
What I meant by bad day was, like an off day where everything feels wrong in game and it affects gameplay. that happens too. not exactly sick but feeling wierd or something.
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10-08-2018, 07:18 AMBourne_EndeavorAnd I refer you back to my initial response. You having a bad day doesn't mean I should have to deal with it. I've had plenty myself, but I either do less demanding content or elect to do something else entirely. Queuing into Alphascape and barely performing your job is simply inconsiderate, no matter the excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvina
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10-08-2018, 07:22 AMHyoMinParkContext matters with regards to this. Where are you encountering this alleged “bad” player? Are they a level 16 sprout in Sastasha? Or are they a level 50/60/70 job in an alliance raid? Or an 8-man trial/raid? In an Extreme trial? Savage raid? New to the content is one thing; but once you start reaching the 50/60/70 milestones, you can no longer be considered a “new player” (meaning, “new to FFXIV”).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvina
If the person was new to a class/job, all they need to do is say so. Most people are more than accommodating if the person communicates. However, no communication means less in terms of accommodation, since the other 3/7/23 people have no idea about the player’s specific circumstances. And they will be far less forgiving/patient.
You should practice on a dummy or in more casual content. If you’re venturing into more demanding content immediately after changing your UI/hotbars/keybinds, then that’s on you for not practicing beforehand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvina
Having a bad day doesn’t mean you can take it out on others, or make others “deal with” whatever you have going on. That’s a very poor excuse. A much better one would be more along the lines of “Sorry, I’m a bit tired; it’s getting late”. Again, though, communication is best in these situations, but I cannot fault for people for not wanting to put up with subpar play—at least in demanding content where you need to be able to focus and perform well/to a certain standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvina
If you’re sick, then you should be in bed resting. Not playing video games, in all fairness.
While everyone has bad days, I’m really going to need some proof of this. Otherwise, it’s just a baseless assumption.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvina
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10-08-2018, 07:27 AMAxlStream
Can we stop protecting bad players in this forum? I'm not saying everyone needs to be 100th percentile fflogs but it seems this forum will go out of it's way to protect anybody who just plays horrendously bad.
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10-08-2018, 07:34 AMRyuDragnier
I only call you bad if you keep failing easy mechanics such as stacking or you keep trying to ignore mechanics (thereby leading to your death).
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10-08-2018, 07:42 AMValkyrie_LennethIt is also a hobby. I can say the same about sports or other hobbies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reap00
Just because it's a game doesn't excuse you for wasting other people's time.
At least we don't have riots in the streets when someone loses. -
10-08-2018, 07:47 AMHyoMinParkThe amount of people in v12n that run off with the stack marker... it's unbelievable, and I quickly lose my patience with it. Not going to lie. When you're level 70, you should know how to handle stack markers.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuDragnier
My second favorite is the purple AOE trying to stand with the stack when M & F are both showing up. Again, level 70s should know how to handle these. I shouldn't have to tell people "Don't stand with the stack if you have the purple AOE marker". -
10-08-2018, 07:59 AMElHeggunte
Doesn't matter to me. If someone is bad to the point of impeding the progress of the rest of the group, their reason for being so is generally irrelevant. They need to fix what's causing them to suck eggs or they need to go, no two ways about it.
I was wondering when this retort would crop up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reap00
I don't care what it is, if it's a task that I set aside personal time for, I'm going to get irritated if some mouthbreather comes along and repeatedly does things that waste that time. The fact that we're talking about a video game doesn't detract from that at all. -
10-08-2018, 08:05 AMBourne_Endeavorhttps://pics.me.me/hey-man-wanna-pla...s-34176470.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Reap00
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10-08-2018, 08:17 AMElazulHP
It can be frustrating to play with someone "bad", however, who really knows what is going on causing them to be "bad". They could have a disability for all I know or are playing sick taking it easy at home from work or something. It's a good policy to not judge and just shut up and move on with your life.
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10-08-2018, 08:19 AMTheodric
Every player has a duty to strive to do their best. That FFXIV is a game doesn't particularly matter - everybody is paying a monthly subscription fee to access the game's servers and we all have a finite amount of time to live our lives. Nobody is obligated to bend over backwards as to not offend the delicate sensibilities of players who refuse to pull their weight. All criticism offered should be constructive, though I've seen even the most gently worded feedback condemned as if it were the most offensive and toxic speech to ever be uttered throughout the entirety of humanity's existence.
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10-08-2018, 08:23 AMVahlnir
I can understand that everyone has varying skill levels and not everyone is going to be on their A game 24/7, be it from simply not performing well one day or being sick. In random dungeons or raids I expect the unexpected, and will never call someone out for not being up to par. However, as far as the party finder goes, if I'm going into a party that has certain requirements (listed or otherwise) I will expect people to be up to the task if they signed up for it. If it says "clear party, know the fight", you are expected to know the fight and be able to clear it. Same goes with farm parties. I will typically mention that someone (never really pointing out who unless it's blatantly obvious) is underperforming if people signed up for something they should be able to do and clearly aren't capable. I won't be rude about it 99% of the time, but I'm human...and that makes me vulnerable to frustration. Most times I will wait till we wipe, then leave without a word. You know, the whole "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" sorta deal. Beyond that though all I really feel is indifference and will not judge.
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10-08-2018, 08:31 AMNixxeI kind of hate this image, as it's pretty much a strawman. In reality, it's more like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
https://i.imgur.com/DH8UsP3.png -
10-08-2018, 08:34 AMAxlStream
So non DPSing healers, Ice Mages, frist GCD trick Ninjas, can I send those all your way and see how miserable you are?
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10-08-2018, 09:47 AMvan_arnI assume that's where they go when I kick them or bail on them, so *shrug*.Quote:
Originally Posted by AxlStream
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10-08-2018, 10:03 AMBourne_EndeavorUh... what? You do realize you literally just created a strawman yet somehow accused that image of being one, yes? o.OQuote:
Originally Posted by Nixxe
The whole point of that image isn't about optimization but someone clearly doing something wrong and when called out, complain "it's only a game! I'm just having fun!" They may be having fun, but no one else is since it's making the game nearly impossible or needlessly more difficult. I really cannot believe I have to explain this to someone... -
10-08-2018, 10:10 AMDualgunner4. Are they at the good part of Daredevil on Netflix and their attention is grabbed away really hard from the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvina
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10-08-2018, 10:16 AMZepheraIt's a videogame you play with other people and requires co-operation. You need to stop being so mad other people expect better from you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reap00
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10-08-2018, 10:18 AMTheodric
It's a matter of good-sportsmanship. A lot of people seem to be under the impression that they can do whatever they want just because it's a game, yet I guarantee that those same individuals wouldn't dare to sign up to play chess or basketball at a hobby club only to insist on doing it 'their way'. No doubt because they know they'd be laughed at, asked to leave and then kicked out onto their behinds.
It's only due to the anonymity of the internet that they're so emboldened. Luckily they're not entirely free of consequences and can be subjected to a kick if necessary. -
10-08-2018, 10:34 AMNixxeI understand how you see the original image. I am telling you that you're wrong for seeing it that way. If you need further clarification, I will be glad to assist you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
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10-08-2018, 10:35 AMLunalepsy
I really don't mind. People are very opinionated sometimes. : )
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10-08-2018, 10:40 AMMisteAnd you think your version makes more sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixxe
The guidelines for tic tac toe are simple, it isn't "play the way I tell you to" since there is only one correct way to play that is outlined in how the game was designed. I give you props for that circle being even more jank than the original mess.
Also just FYI in your example X went first, so O went second, then X again. What is wrong with how this game is playing out? It is now O turn again and they can block X from taking the diagonal while also furthering their opposite diagonal.
There is no logical reason for the other player to question how the game is going, so I am not sure why you think this one makes sense? In reality your image makes 100% less sense than the original.
If it wasn't a strawman before it definitely is now with your version. There is a difference between average basic level play and optimization which you are simply ignoring. The image is often used to sum up players who lack even the basics of gameplay at high levels (NOT optimization), yet lash out at anyone who tries to assist them with suggestions.
Lacking the basics of tic tac toe could easily be summed up in using diamond shapes instead of X or O since the game is clearly defined as using only X and O to mark spots.
Now for FFXIV there is only one way to play 100% you just don't have to in 99% of the content so just average play is fine, but there is still only one correct path to stay on.
A tank who doesn't tank anything in the dungeon is not an optimization issue. It is a basic case of them simply not playing correctly in the only correct way a tank can play in a dungeon: by tanking. Each role has a basic level of what you should be doing in order to play correctly even if not the best optimized way.