Class Redesign - Monk

Hello Guys,

I'm playing lately actively Monk for a longer while, played through Story with it until the current end, so I'm experienced with all of its gameplay mechanics, and I must say, this class could have been designed in many ways much better.
Here is I concept of mine, how I think that a Monk in FF14 should look and work like and how it should progress for the future of this Game:

Progress Line
- Level 1-29 (ARR) = You begin as a Pugilist
- Level 30 = At this Stage, you choose your Job, praktically your Class Specialization, which defines deeper your Role in the Game and here is, where SE has to massively improve this game. FF14 wants to be designed around Roles, but lacks at the same time giving the player enough choices in Roles while progressing with their Characters, pigeonholing them too much into only one direction based on your Class Choice, which is the reason, why we have felt on every Tank maybe a Healer, but like 10+ DD's running around. This System needs to broaden up and get more DEPTH and become better thought out.

Lets begin with Roles in this Game. This Game nees more Roles, than just only Tank, Healer and DD.
There should be in fact 5 clear different roles, which are:
- Attack
- Tank
- Heal
- Support
- Prevention

And for each of this Roles should have each Class in this game a Job, or Sub Class so to say, which is specialized in this Job to functionate for this Role, having in each of these Jobs, completely different Job Skills to alterate the Gameplay of the Class, while sharign all the same Class Skills, which in return get changed a bit based on the Job#s Traits, Equipment progression (which FF14 sadly has so far none at all, just only lousy boring Materia for Stat Boosts)

So what does this little ranting mean in fact in terms of Jobs? That the Pugilist Class should have the following five Jobs:

Attack > Champion > Focus on dealing alot of Damage to decrease the number of enemies fast
Tank > Daredevil > Focus of taunting enemies and holding their Aggressivity on themself, so that battles are less chaotic
Healer > Monk > Focus on healing wounds and negative effecits, bring fallen allies back to live
Support > Martialist > Focus on weakening foes and buffing allies, improving their mechanics
Prevention > Roughneck > Focus on stopping enemies, disrupting or distracting their actions, bacically Crowd Control is their speciality

Your Class defines this way practically your Main Role, but your job is it, which deepens this Main Role and forms it more into one of 5 different playstyles that give the player more options to choose from , so you have more choices to find something, that fits more to your personal liking, while not being anymore so strongly pigeonholed into either only DD, Tank or Healer, you'd have now the choice between practically

- Full DD (DD/DD)
- DD/Tank
- DD/Healer
- DD/Support
- DD/Prevention
- Full Tank (T/T)
- Tank/DD
- Tank/Healer
- Tank/Support
- Tank/Prevention

You see? The choices become instantly significantly much highe, so more Role Options you have and when you make it possible to combine them together as part of this Games Character Progression to offer for each Role also a Job per Class.

Provided Skills are with Monk Job Role in mind. Questions above will be answered after the Skill Concept List is posted

Level 1 Fists of Harmony Deal an attack with potency of 100, 150 from the flanks and 180 from the rear. Receives +10 Potency for each Chakra Gate opened. Replaces Bootshine
Level 4 Strike of Truth Deal Damage with a potency of 140. The Base Potency is increased by 25% wheneever the Health Threshold of the Enemy is 25% lower. Replaces True Strike
Level 6 Powerful Punch Deal a Strike with a potency of 140, 170 from the flanks and 180 from behind plus new stun effect, when hit from behind. Replaces Snap Punch
Level 10 Internal Release Increases temporarely Critical Hit Rate by 30%
Level 15 Fists of Earth Your Defense is increased by 10% and CC Effects like Pushes and Pulls are only half as strong effective on you now.
Level 18 Twin Snakes You hit the enemy now twice with this skill with a potency of 100. If hit from the flanks, you will stun foes instead of dealing twice damage.
Level 26 Fist of Destruction You deal damage to all nearby foes with a potency of 50. This Attack will cause now Heaviness to foes too so that they will move slower.
Level 30 Demolisher You strike a foe with a potency of 50 now, This attack causes damage over time. 50 potency per second normally 100, when Demolisher hit from behind.
Level 30 Rockbreaker You deal a cone like attack that hits all foes in front of you for a potency of of 130. Now with a potency of 150, when hit from behind.
Level 34 Fists of the Wind Your Movement Speed and Attack Speed of Auto attacks is increased by 25% when you keep this active.
Level 35 = Shoulder Tackle Gap Closer Attack with a Potency of 100, letting you rush to your target position fast
Level 38 = Fists of Steel Damage increased by 10% while active and Attacks, which couldn't stun foes like Bosses before, have now a low chance to stun them. Works not on all Enemy Actions, some are unpreventable. Adds also a Staggering Effekt, stopping simple foes from doing Auto Attacks.
Level 40 = Fists of Fire Has now a Chance to cause Burn, burned foes will suffer damage over time with a potency of 50. While active have you an Aura around you, which reflects back 3% of received damage back to the target and Weapon Skills recharge now under this Ability 10% faster.
Level 42 = Fists of Water New, replaces One Ilm Strike and the Level Place of Mantra. While this is active, have you an increased chance of 20% to dodge Enemy Attacks and your attacks can cause Freeze, stopping temporarely the enemy movement/attacks, until you hit then again. Frozen foes are defenseless. Hit frozen targets will receive 50% more damage from the Weapon Skill, which hits them while they are frozen. Hits end Freeze.
Level 45 = Mantra of Harmony Based on which elemental Fist Ability is active, will have Mantra of Harmony a different Effect.
20% increased Heal Potency on You and your Allies in near on Water
Attack Speed of AAs increased for you and your Allies by 20% on Wind
Attack Power increased by 20% for you and Allies on Fire.
Condition Resistance +10% for you and Allies plus 5 second longer Greased Lightning Durations for you on Steel.
Defense Power increased 20% for you and allies, on Earth
Level 46 = Howling Fist Perform a Line of Sight Attack that hits all foes in front of you in the LoS with a potency of 200.
Level 50 = Perfect Balance Allows you to perform certain Skills, which require a specific Combat Stance of either Coeurl, Chocobo (replaces Raptor) or Cactor (replaces Opo Opo)
Level 50 = Dragon Kick Based on which Fist Ability is active, changes now the effect and name of this Skill. Steel works as Neutral Form with the current effect.
Fire Dragon Kick causes temporary a Fire Ring on the ground for 10 seconds. Enemies receive damage over time as long they stand inside.
Earth Dragon Kick launches the enemy away and stun it, if it can be stunned
Water Dragon Kick causes an Ice Field, which lets enemies miss their attacks more oftenly, while they stand inside, due to slipping out.
Wind Dragon Kick causes Vulnerability, lowering temporarely the defense of the hit Target and slows its attack speed of AA's.
Level 52 Seven Gates of Freedom Replaces now Form Shift and Meditation/Forbidden Chakra.
First Chakra - Gate of Muladhara - While it's active, is your Movement Speed increased by 10% and your Maximum Health raises by 5000 and you get healed by 5000 HP directly too
Second Chakra - Gate of Swadisthana - While it's active, recharge your Skills 5% faster and you have a 5% increased chance for dealing more and receiving lesser Criticals.
Third Chakra - Gate of Manipura - While it's active, is your dealt damage and received damage increased by 5%.
Fourth Chakra - Gate of Anahata - While it's active, are you more immune to Stuns and if you suffered on activation on Stun, will it remove it, as also other movement impairing Conditions like Freeze, Slow or Heaviness.
Fifth Chakra - Gate of Vishudha - While it's active will be positive Buffs on you from Allies increased in potency and last longer on you by 20%.
Sixth Chakra - Gate of Prana - While it's active, have you an innate chance of 5% to auto dodge attacks and your TP Cost of Weapon Skills is reduced by 20%
Seventh Chakra - Gate of Sahasrara - While it's active is a small portion of your MP used to auto recover your health, when you receive Damage. Should you receive in this state lethal damage that would defeat you, will all of your MP be used to auto revive you with half of your Health.

Each opening of a Chakra will require more and more time so closer you get to the last seventh chakra seal to open up. The UI wil get changed to show now 7 instead of 5 Chakras, how it should be correct, based on the game lore!!!

Level 56 Energy of Nature Renamed and changed Elixier Field. You perform a of Line of Sight Energy Chakra attack, which receives per each opened up Gate of Freedom more potency, which works now also too as replacement of Forbidden Chakra. Its Base Potency of 220. For each opened up Gate does it receive +10 Potency. This Skill ignores Enemy Defense and can't be dodged. A ranged Chakra Attack from collecting Sen Chakra of the Nature around you, while standing still for a short while. So you will be rooted for a moment as counter balance
Level 58 Mantra of Purification Instead of Self TP Heal, do you create now a purifying Energy Field for some time, when it's entered heals you and your allies TP once by +300 and removes negative conditions like Poison, Burn, Bleedings whatever ect. causes damage over time.
Level 60 Tornado Kick This Skill deals Damage with a potency of 330 and costs all of your Greased Lightning Points of your Combat Stance.
Level 66 Enigma of Elements You mastered your Elemental Fists, unlocking with it Elemental Powers to your Shoulder Tackle Skill
Earthern Tackle Adds to your Shoulder Tackle an Effect of launching your Target away.
Storming Tackle Adds to your Shoulder Tackle the Effect, that you hit your foe twice and you can perform the Tackle twice, before it recharges. Potency Halved
Fiery Tackle Adds 30% more Potency to your Shoulder Tackle and causes Burn to your hit Targets for some damage over time.
Icecold Tackle Adds a Freeze Effect to your Tackle, freezing the hit target eventually.
Ironhide Tackle The neutral form improved, if performed while no Elemental Fist is active. After performing Ironhide Tackle, will you receive for 5 seconds after it not more damage, than 20% of your Maximum Health
Level 68 Enigma of Power Renamed Ridle of Fire. Same Effect, your attack power is increased by 30%, while your skills recharge 15% slower
Level 70 Brotherhood Your and the Attack Power of your Allies is increased by 5% on Activation. While it's active, is also the time you need to open your Chakra Gates reduced by 5% per every Group Member, which is still alive then.
---
For when a next Expansion comes, which raises the cap most likely to 80:
Level 72 Yin & Yang A Self Buff Skill, when used right after activating all 7 Chakras, opens up also the 7 Chakras fo Freedom of Shadow, the Yin Side of your Soul, making you temporarely immune to all Conditions and CC Effects, while the Gates are opened
Level 75 Rage of Ashura A one time useable Attack with a potency of 500, while Yin & Yang is active, if used, it will end instandly the Gate Effect, so you should wait with it for the last moment.
Level 78 Insight of Indra A special Mantra, while Yin & Yang is active, which allows temporally allies to receive the positive Effects of your Elemental Fist ability as well too. Unlike Fists of Ashura, does Insight of Indra not end the Gates of Freedom Effect. But therefore will cost Insight of Indra you over time MP. Does it run out, will end Insight of Indra.
Level 80 Celestial Hands While this Skill is active, will small portions of your dealt Damage heal nearby Allies and your critical hit rate is increased by 5%

But, how should this work out with DF queueing?
How would/should be the slot distribution for the new roles?
Can a the new roles (support/Prevention) work on their own or would it just be slapped on a basic trinity role?
Also how would this be suitable for every job and its aesthetics?
How will this provide uniqueness for every job?

@ Legion:
With Slot Distributions I think you mean the currenct System of DD/DD/Tank/Healer and so on.
If this Game gets more broadened up with its Character Progression and Jobs getting more specialized , the 4th Slot basically becomes random and can be filled up by either a Supporter or a Preventer. Mostly all old content of this game can also just be done with only 1 DD, combats will lats eventually only a tiny bit longer, but thats no issue, when therefore the group finding gets more broadened up and the missing damage could get eventually compensated by either the Tank or Healer being Tank/DD or Healer/DD as their roles.

If even a Healer can work on its very own, then a Supporter and Preventer naturally will be able to work on their own too.
The Supporter through buffing itself and debuffign foes.
The Preventer through simply controling the fight to his favor.

About suitable aesthetics I can say, that every Job will get an aesthetic own unique name for each Class and each Job will receive a secondary Weapon to increase the aesthetics/look/styles to make the jobs more trustworthy. Classes will be able to switch then between the primary Class Weapon, or the secondary Job Weapon. It won't change the skills, but it will be for aesthetics ;)
Champion = Claws
Daredevil = Tonfas
Monk = Poles
Martialists = Gauntlets
Roughnecks = Maces

Aside of this will each Job have their very own set of Traits, which will change the gameplay of the Jobs slightly enough, so that playing each Job will feel different.
The game has already Traits as mechanic, but sadly they have yet no real effect on the gameplay of the Job, they are just only mostl bland Stat Boosts eiother, or improvements of a few Basic Mechanics of the Class itself. So FF14 needs Job specific Traits. THIS WILL definetly provide more uniqueness for each Job.

You can edit all your ideas into a single post. There is no character limit upon edit.

While I, too, like the idea of multi-role classes/jobs, I can't quite see your vision for it here beyond the system itself. What makes it fun to you? Even if just a glimpse, could you tell us what would be so neat about these different role-twists and why multiple-roles-per-job would be better in your opinion than the current DD/Tank/Healer mostly homogenized niches (+/- indirect contribution methods via still relatively minor survival or external throughput utility)?

@ Shurrikhan
Maybe some of these answers already answer some of your questions as well.
But to answer onto one of your specific questions:
What makes fun for me on having such choices and why adding more Roles is good in my opinion, is simply because you can't have enough choice,s so more choices you have in an MMORPG, so better, to a certain extent, cause it needs to stay overviewable. 5 Roles is in my opinion still more then enough overviewable to balance it
also too with combining them, because especially the combination of roles is it, which makes fun and which would help this game massively in group finding, because under the current settign of DD, Healer and Tank only, are players way too much reliant on Tanks and Healers. Especialy in game content, that isn't very actively played anymore as much, as like the latest game content.
A broader Class System with a more depthful designed Job System which allows to combine and mix the roles to your liking, will make group finding, especially also for older content easier, because you'd not be forced anymore to wait on that one single Tank eventually, if you could get simply also someone, who is DD or Healer, but specialized as Job in tanking to take over in that moment the Rle as the group's Tank, even if the class of that player isn't Tank. it should be enough when the job of that palyer is specialized in tanking in its own unique way thropugh the help of specialized traits and job skills for that.

I'll preface this by saying that I'd like to see less dual/omni role job suggestions and more focused ones instead. The point of being able to level all jobs is to cover this omni-character desire without compromising the design of the jobs themselves. Focus on one idea, first. If FFXIV was more like WoW in that you pick one job identity and stick with it, that would make more sense. XIV is not WoW. Yoshi-P even thinks that Arcanist branching out into Scholar and Summoner was a mistake.

That said, I also don't think Monk should lose their Greased Lightning and Forms. That is the core of the job, not the elemental fists and Chakra. I agree that the latter two systems need to be integrated into the former more. And I can think of some rough ideas on how to integrate the former mechanics into each current role while staying true to XIV's design that you glossed over. Not the generic "support" and "prevention" roles you suggest.

Reading these abilities over however, this feels like something you'd see in an older MMO based on D&D style design. That doesn't gel at all with how FFXIV is. I feel like you are missing the mark of what fits this game and what doesn't.

I'd say try working within the constraints of the current MNK and show how it would work as a healer or tank rather than throwing it out and adding abilities that SE would never add into the game as it is now, rather than trying to force things that the design team has said they've scrapped.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

Provided Skills are with Monk Job Role in mind. Questions above will be answered after the Skill Concept List is posted

Level 1 Fists of Harmony Deal an attack with potency of 100, 150 from the flanks and 180 from the rear. Receives +10 Potency for each Chakra Gate opened. Replaces Bootshine
Level 4 Strike of Truth Deal Damage with a potency of 140. The Base Potency is increased by 25% wheneever the Health Threshold of the Enemy is 25% lower. Replaces True Strike
Level 6 Powerful Punch Deal a Strike with a potency of 140, 170 from the flanks and 180 from behind plus new stun effect, when hit from behind. Replaces Snap Punch
Level 10 Internal Release Increases temporarely Critical Hit Rate by 30%
Level 15 Fists of Earth Your Defense is increased by 10% and CC Effects like Pushes and Pulls are only half as strong effective on you now.
Level 18 Twin Snakes You hit the enemy now twice with this skill with a potency of 100. If hit from the flanks, you will stun foes instead of dealing twice damage.
Level 26 Fist of Destruction You deal damage to all nearby foes with a potency of 50. This Attack will cause now Heaviness to foes too so that they will move slower.
Level 30 Demolisher You strike a foe with a potency of 50 now, This attack causes damage over time. 50 potency per second normally 100, when Demolisher hit from behind.
Level 30 Rockbreaker You deal a cone like attack that hits all foes in front of you for a potency of of 130. Now with a potency of 150, when hit from behind.
Level 34 Fists of the Wind Your Movement Speed and Attack Speed of Auto attacks is increased by 25% when you keep this active.
Level 35 = Shoulder Tackle Gap Closer Attack with a Potency of 100, letting you rush to your target position fast
Level 38 = Fists of Steel Damage increased by 10% while active and Attacks, which couldn't stun foes like Bosses before, have now a low chance to stun them. Works not on all Enemy Actions, some are unpreventable. Adds also a Staggering Effekt, stopping simple foes from doing Auto Attacks.
Level 40 = Fists of Fire Has now a Chance to cause Burn, burned foes will suffer damage over time with a potency of 50. While active have you an Aura around you, which reflects back 3% of received damage back to the target and Weapon Skills recharge now under this Ability 10% faster.
Level 42 = Fists of Water New, replaces One Ilm Strike and the Level Place of Mantra. While this is active, have you an increased chance of 20% to dodge Enemy Attacks and your attacks can cause Freeze, stopping temporarely the enemy movement/attacks, until you hit then again. Frozen foes are defenseless. Hit frozen targets will receive 50% more damage from the Weapon Skill, which hits them while they are frozen. Hits end Freeze.
Level 45 = Mantra of Harmony Based on which elemental Fist Ability is active, will have Mantra of Harmony a different Effect.
20% increased Heal Potency on You and your Allies in near on Water
Attack Speed of AAs increased for you and your Allies by 20% on Wind
Attack Power increased by 20% for you and Allies on Fire.
Condition Resistance +10% for you and Allies plus 5 second longer Greased Lightning Durations for you on Steel.
Defense Power increased 20% for you and allies, on Earth
Level 46 = Howling Fist Perform a Line of Sight Attack that hits all foes in front of you in the LoS with a potency of 200.
Level 50 = Perfect Balance Allows you to perform certain Skills, which require a specific Combat Stance of either Coeurl, Chocobo (replaces Raptor) or Cactor (replaces Opo Opo)
Level 50 = Dragon Kick Based on which Fist Ability is active, changes now the effect and name of this Skill. Steel works as Neutral Form with the current effect.
Fire Dragon Kick causes temporary a Fire Ring on the ground for 10 seconds. Enemies receive damage over time as long they stand inside.
Earth Dragon Kick launches the enemy away and stun it, if it can be stunned
Water Dragon Kick causes an Ice Field, which lets enemies miss their attacks more oftenly, while they stand inside, due to slipping out.
Wind Dragon Kick causes Vulnerability, lowering temporarely the defense of the hit Target and slows its attack speed of AA's.
Level 52 Seven Gates of Freedom Replaces now Form Shift and Meditation/Forbidden Chakra.
First Chakra - Gate of Muladhara - While it's active, is your Movement Speed increased by 10% and your Maximum Health raises by 5000 and you get healed by 5000 HP directly too
Second Chakra - Gate of Swadisthana - While it's active, recharge your Skills 5% faster and you have a 5% increased chance for dealing more and receiving lesser Criticals.
Third Chakra - Gate of Manipura - While it's active, is your dealt damage and received damage increased by 5%.
Fourth Chakra - Gate of Anahata - While it's active, are you more immune to Stuns and if you suffered on activation on Stun, will it remove it, as also other movement impairing Conditions like Freeze, Slow or Heaviness.
Fifth Chakra - Gate of Vishudha - While it's active will be positive Buffs on you from Allies increased in potency and last longer on you by 20%.
Sixth Chakra - Gate of Prana - While it's active, have you an innate chance of 5% to auto dodge attacks and your TP Cost of Weapon Skills is reduced by 20%
Seventh Chakra - Gate of Sahasrara - While it's active is a small portion of your MP used to auto recover your health, when you receive Damage. Should you receive in this state lethal damage that would defeat you, will all of your MP be used to auto revive you with half of your Health.

Each opening of a Chakra will require more and more time so closer you get to the last seventh chakra seal to open up. The UI wil get changed to show now 7 instead of 5 Chakras, how it should be correct, based on the game lore!!!

Level 56 Energy of Nature Renamed and changed Elixier Field. You perform a of Line of Sight Energy Chakra attack, which receives per each opened up Gate of Freedom more potency, which works now also too as replacement of Forbidden Chakra. Its Base Potency of 220. For each opened up Gate does it receive +10 Potency. This Skill ignores Enemy Defense and can't be dodged. A ranged Chakra Attack from collecting Sen Chakra of the Nature around you, while standing still for a short while. So you will be rooted for a moment as counter balance
Level 58 Mantra of Purification Instead of Self TP Heal, do you create now a purifying Energy Field for some time, when it's entered heals you and your allies TP once by +300 and removes negative conditions like Poison, Burn, Bleedings whatever ect. causes damage over time.
Level 60 Tornado Kick This Skill deals Damage with a potency of 330 and costs all of your Greased Lightning Points of your Combat Stance.
Level 66 Enigma of Elements You mastered your Elemental Fists, unlocking with it Elemental Powers to your Shoulder Tackle Skill
Earthern Tackle Adds to your Shoulder Tackle an Effect of launching your Target away.
Storming Tackle Adds to your Shoulder Tackle the Effect, that you hit your foe twice and you can perform the Tackle twice, before it recharges. Potency Halved
Fiery Tackle Adds 30% more Potency to your Shoulder Tackle and causes Burn to your hit Targets for some damage over time.
Icecold Tackle Adds a Freeze Effect to your Tackle, freezing the hit target eventually.
Ironhide Tackle The neutral form improved, if performed while no Elemental Fist is active. After performing Ironhide Tackle, will you receive for 5 seconds after it not more damage, than 20% of your Maximum Health
Level 68 Enigma of Power Renamed Ridle of Fire. Same Effect, your attack power is increased by 30%, while your skills recharge 15% slower
Level 70 Brotherhood Your and the Attack Power of your Allies is increased by 5% on Activation. While it's active, is also the time you need to open your Chakra Gates reduced by 5% per every Group Member, which is still alive then.
---
For when a next Expansion comes, which raises the cap most likely to 80:
Level 72 Yin & Yang A Self Buff Skill, when used right after activating all 7 Chakras, opens up also the 7 Chakras fo Freedom of Shadow, the Yin Side of your Soul, making you temporarely immune to all Conditions and CC Effects, while the Gates are opened
Level 75 Rage of Ashura A one time useable Attack with a potency of 500, while Yin & Yang is active, if used, it will end instandly the Gate Effect, so you should wait with it for the last moment.
Level 78 Insight of Indra A special Mantra, while Yin & Yang is active, which allows temporally allies to receive the positive Effects of your Elemental Fist ability as well too. Unlike Fists of Ashura, does Insight of Indra not end the Gates of Freedom Effect. But therefore will cost Insight of Indra you over time MP. Does it run out, will end Insight of Indra.
Level 80 Celestial Hands While this Skill is active, will small portions of your dealt Damage heal nearby Allies and your critical hit rate is increased by 5%

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Okay, you provided MNK, as a DD/Heal job

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaiserdrache

Healer > Monk > Focus on healing wounds and negative effecits, bring fallen allies back to live

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as example and i found some things that need clarification or are contradicting with earlier posts of you:

1.) For which role does MNK now queue? DD or Heal? Don't say both.

2.) Water and Ice are two different elements in FFXIV and not two of the same kind. Solution would be to either rename Fist of Water to Fist of Ice or replace the freeze effect with a better fitting one.

3.) There is no Dragon Kick for Steel Fists.

4.) MNK should be a Healer as subrole but there is no skill included but 1 who can be looked at as a skill out of the healing role, a cleanse.

5.) No explanation of the new Chakra-System.

6.) Shouldn't it get some "healy" skills or traits so he can perform his sub role?

7.) Where are the traits?

8.) Pushing mobs is nothing a DD should do with a DPS or movement skill.

So this redesign is just a rework of some mechanics but not worth to tag it as healer subrole.
My conclusion up to now: Mission failed!

Aside from a complete overhaul like that not sitting well with a lot of existing players, there are some balance issues.

Tank duties are difficult to share against single bosses without adds. Two DPS classes with tank sub-role are likely to perform worse in tanking than a single pure tank class. Already in many trials and non-alliance raids the second tank is basically just a bad DPS. Tank swapping is a valid mechanic but may be too difficult for most players. On the other hand if content is balanced so that a single tank sub-role is sufficient, it will make pure tanks superfluous.

Crowd control will easily be either an absolute necessity or completely superfluous. For trash enemies and weak adds it's generally better to have more DPS. If bosses or strong adds can be crowd controlled, it easily trivializes the entire fight to the point where you don't need a tank at all, and possibly not a healer either. Most existing classes have a stun or two but those are so minor they do not constitute even a sub-role.

The value of a pure support role is highly dependent on party size. If you swap out one DPS of a 4-player party for a support, the buffs and debuffs they give out would have to increase damage output by around 50% to break even. Do the same in an 8-player party and the net result is a 25% increase in damage. A support sub-role already exists in the form of AST's cards, which are easier to balance thanks to a healer not dealing so much damage in the first place. They are also an important thematic element of the class and it wouldn't really make sense to swap them out for some other sub-role.

After a little break, Ive to mention, that the skill list above is just a concept of how I'd rework the Monk under the current system, without the role changes of adding Supporters and Preventers (Debuffers).
I've not written down yet for that concept the rework of Traits and Role Skills, because I thought, it would be too much, if I do that.
I wanted to have first feedback on the skill changes, to be able to make if neccessary, appropriate changes on the rest of the concept to adapt it as needed.
In FF14 it are the Traits and the Role SKills, which take influence on how a Job in this Game changes over time and progresses.
My Ideas and inspirations come from my years of playing Guild Wars and especially Guild Wars 2 - not especially WoW, ive never ever played by now WoW at all!!

However, I used my time since that posting to play the game more and especially to play it completely through to the very last quest, to realize, that way too much of this game is too hardcoded, to make the fundamental changes it would need to make this game actually alot better and more modern in the way where GW2 makes things better than FF14, without copying too much.
But the point is, the way hiow FF14 is now, it also cant stay forever liek this with only DPS, Tank and Healer. This games design is way too much dependent on tanks and healers, while we have DPS in abundance, which makes it extremely difficult to find as DPS groups for content to lay, while if you play as tanks or healer, you find groups in no time, because everybody needs them and is dependent on them the most.
Thats why i think, this game needs more roles, so that tanks and healers become lesser needed, because if you have a preventer, which can control the fight, so that you take lesser damage, then theres lesser need for heals.
If you have a Supporter, that buffs the group so that it takes lesser damage, you might eventually not need a tank. Its naturally extremely a matter of skill design, traits, role skilsl, upgrades and so on that is all part of character progression, which needs extremly more depths in this game.

Currently every job and character that shares the same job like your character, feels and plays exactly THE SAME. There is absolutely zero build diversity in this game sadly.
The only thing that counts in this game is reaching as quickly as possible max level and endgame gear with the highest possible gear level full with meaningless boring max point materias and your ready to go and the very nrext other player thatd made a monk like you, is 100% the same like you, except maybe only the choice of used max stat materias in the gear that have nearly any measurable big difference between you and him/her, because therefore are the differences in stats way too tiny to see/feel a real difference in the game, like dealing significantly more frequently critical hits, or having significantly much more Health, or receiving significantly much lesser damage and so on.
Skilsl are exactly the same, there exists unlike in GW2 absiolutely no way in FF14 to change how your skills work and what they do to have different playstyle builds

The sad point is, even if FF14 would provide better and more depthful skills for better build diversity, it would cause massive problems in the combat design of this game with the boss fights, primaes, challenges ect., raids and so on, because all of these are hard coded designs with the point in mind, that all skills work always the same, that all jobs are always the same. So if this game woudl receive more build diversity, all of the bigger boss battles would need to get redesigned and rebalanced as well too
Thats something I didn't have realized at the time, when I created this thread. my goal at this point was only, to make the monk more interestign and fun to play with these concepted skills and especially more depthful in design as a meele fighter, which can attune itself into the elements of nature fire, water, wind, earth and as neutral element steel (Metal) to change the gameplay of this job into one that has more harmony.

Also my concept is insprited as some maybe will have recognized my japanese folclore mythology that peole might now from games and animes like Asuras Wrath, or Naruto, because everyone who has a monk, knows from the story quests, that the class is based on chakra of light and chakra of shadows (yin and yang, absolutely no coincedence there), I just call out here only, what surely everybody will think of the monk the very moment when you reach that point at their story quests and made it part of my concept what Id liek to see as their character prgression when Level 80 comes with new skills, making the chakra gameplay a much more vital and depthful part of the overall monk playstyle.

However, as we all know by know, will 5.0 fuse now MP also together with TP, so my concept would have also to get reworked alone due to this, because I've written it down with the thought in mind, that the game keeps TP and MP being seperate ressources for the combat system and class design.

To answer in this post some above questions seperately @ Legion:

1) My idea was with giving this game "Sub Roles", that you queue for the role, that is your Main Role, but your Sub Role just gives you more options to individualize your playstle and your build individuality and diversity in this game, so that you could help out that way passively those players that are your Sub Role as main Role in your own unique way

Example: MNK as a DD/H would help passively healing either himself or other party members, through dealing damage, ,or helping their party members to get help, by lettign them deal damage via effects, that leech/drain health from their attacked targets, or lettign thenm receive partially health from the damage that you deal to your target.
Why should this game provide only active healing from a main heale,r if all other classes could have their very own ways with that they can help eventually also healing other party members??
Examples for my concept are these skills I listed up above:

- The already existing Mantra (my renamed Mantra of Harmony to symbolize the hamony of the skill based on which element is active), boosts up gained Healings, makes them more effective by 20%
- On Steel the Mantra (Element Neutral) it makes you and nearby allies more resistant to negative conditions, so that they end quicker and you are less likely to get them from enemy attacks that can cause them.
- Mantra of Purification, which heals allies if they enter its area of effect, letting you have a heasl, that requires positioning to receive its effect, removing conditions and grantign TP (but under 5.0 then MP)
- Celestial Hands, healing your allies with small portions of your dealt damage to the target.

I gave the concept not many healign skills, because the main focus of the monk as DD/H is stil lto deal damage, but I wanted to give the concept also some imprvements for traits and role skills so that a Monk as DDH would be able to full its job as offensive passive healer and supports the party through his mantras

2) Your right with this, at that time I wrote the concept, I hadn't seen, that there exists also Water in itself as element, that it rather has the typical classic fire, lightning, ice triangle that FF did earlier, than the different elemental system that the later FF's brought by finally making Water an own element.

3) Dragon Kick is in itself its Neutral Element, didn't want to rename it extra for that to Steel Dragon Kick, but Ive said that also in the skill description, that Dragon Kikc will be in itself the neutral form.

4) See above, not many, but I did put some in, like said, the idea of mine was more to put the stronger healing part rather into the traits and role skills later in the concept to keep the Monk's main focus on dealing dps, healing should be only its little passive side role to passively reduce a bit the healing that the main healer has to do

5) An explanation of the new chakra system. very simple. The name of chakras gets fixed from 5 to 7, thats the first important point to fixe the gameplay based on the monk lore i nthe gaame, because the monk has 7 chakras of light and 7 chakras of shadow. not only 5 chakras like the UI shows us only.
The fixed Ui should show 7 chakras of light and the moment we use the Skill Yin &% yang, the UI should change its color, to show us, that the 7 chakras of shadow are active then too, by changing the color from white to black.
under the current system getting 5 chakras is a matter of basically 5 seconds. Under my concept should gaining 7 chakras take with each gained chakra longe,r because now you gain with each activated chakra also a positive useful effect!!
under the currenrt design is the chakra system nothing else but just a boring mechanic just to perform once every few seconds a single attack skill , which can deal only damage to 1 target and isn#t even the most powerful attack of the monk, because Tornado Kick is alot more powerful, than forbidden chakra, especially under brotherhood and ridle of fire boosted up in attack power can you deal easily with criticals up to like 25k+ damage with tornado kicks, that require only 3 greased lightnings, which can be received if under "Perfect Balance" in 3 seconds, while a forbidden chakra attack barely even reaches the damage, that you can deal with a Tornado Kick.
My reconcepted version just makes the whole chakra system of the monk more meaningful and adds mythological depth to it, while its current form is just meaningless crap that exists only just to deal every 5 seconds 1 attack. Thats pointless. if you make a monk job, and give something to it, like Chakra and a kind of yin &% yang chakra theme in its story, then it should refect that theme also back onto its gameplay and that does it do under my concept form.

6) You repeat yourself in this point, but like mentioned, the plan was to give it the "healy" stuff within the traits sand role skilsl that I haven't written down here yet.

7) will come, with all the new expressions, experience, and wisdom I gained over the game and the knowledge now, that Shadowbringers is on the way, that will shake up a bit the combat system, I have to completely overwork my partial concept here anyways and when I do that, I'll add next time also traits and the rest of it, that makes a monk a monk in this game, together with some yet unmentioned ideas how id like to see this game's class and progression mechanics getting improved ;)

8) And yet they already have exactly this in the combat skills by using the Earthen Shoulder Tackle, you are able to push your enemies away from you (not all naturally, some are resistant on cc). All i did in my concept here was to give them a second skill by adding this effect to the wanted "Earth Dragon Kick", that if you perform that kick while being under earth element attuned, that the kicl will launch then foes away from you as well too, exactly like the earth attuned shoulder tackle does. So your last point is moot, monks can already do this!

This is not "class redesign" but "game redesign"...

I mean, seriously, they would need to rebuild the entire game for this sort of stuff.

Like said, the whole concept here has become meaningless, due to the point that

1) Ive to completely overthink it now, that SE announced Shadowbringers and the changes that will come with the third expansion inevitably

2) I made that concept up, when I had played the game basically through at around 2/3, after I was through with Heavensward and like haldway through Stormblood.
At that point I hadn't realized yet, how extremely much of this game is basically hardcoded into the Story, into localized quests, into Raid Content and Challenges in regard of Combat Design mechanics.

3 my original plan when I wrote this concept down was just only, how I thought that the Monk as a Class would make more fun, due to removing some obsolete and bad thouight out skills, replacing them with some new skilsl that would have more skill synergy in their rotation, and especially would fit better to the theme design of that class as a physical combateer which is able to attune itself to the four elements to improve this way its skilsl and change their effects based on which element their are attuned to, basically similarly to the Elementalist Gameplay of GW2.
i thought, that Tackle Skill alone doing this is boring, so I added that elemental design concept to the Dragon Kick Skill, because i thought its a perfect candidate for exactly that theme plus addign as neutral elemental Metal (Steel) to it to round things up.

Aside of that , as one can clearly see, was my personal strongest intention as part of a potential expansion coming soon, to add some new endgame content to the class by addign some new skilsl for the case level 80 comes as new max level, using them to make the whole yin &% yang theme of the monk more depthful and to give them a much more depthful chakra gameplay with the gates of Freedom, which is a pure mythological concept based on becoming in harmony with your body and mind (yin and yang), balancing out your chakra - in this case here now the 7 chakras of light, and the 7 chakras of shadow, which is why i mentioned it, that it is a complete design mistake, that Monks have in the UI design just only 5 chakras to fill up, and not 7 how it would be CORRECT from a game lore standpoint especially, if you look at that, using a color change then from white to black, signalizign this way to have activated all 14 chakras, which should give the class all some individual effects based on the gates of freedom concept of chakra, makign this way not only the whole class more fun and interestign to play, but also more accurate to lore and mythology.

PS:


However, writing down such concepts I'm doing just for fun and out of boredom XD
Not that I'd expect ever anything of this to happen.
But if one of the devs might use something of it as inspiration to improve the class, I'd lief if i'd say, that i'd not be honored a bit then ;)

I'm waiting now first on whatever SE makes for changes on the classes with Shadowbrigne,r and how exactly the removal of TP will play out on the overall designs of the classes and the combat system...

Game Redesign is also important, to keep a game running, modern and up to date.
if you want to see, how disastrous a game can end up, if things like that are not done every now and then and ignored for basically 6+ years, you just have to take a look onto GW2

FF14 definetely has some extremely outdated game mechanics, which would be together at the class and combat design changes SE will need to do with Shadowbrigners by removing TP at a good time to rework them as well too, likje for example the extremely outdated Attribute Systerm, and the extremely outdated Materia System as part of character prpogression, but that are now completely different topics ;)