Black Mage, 2 methods I learned for rotation, which is superior for dps?

One of my friends tells me I can get more dps by skipping blizz3 after the first cast by transposing into ice, another tells me its more dps to use blizz3 to switch to umbral ice whenever possible, which is more dps?

also I am pretty happy with the current state of black mage as is, after the fire 4 buff it feels like its in a good place.

Well using Blizz III gives you an instant 3 stack of Umbral Ice, as opposed to Transpose which is only 1 stack. The more stacks you have then the more MP you recover (in Umbral) or the more Fire damage you deal (in Astral). Generally it's recommended to avoid Transpose unless you can't avoid it i.e. you need to dodge an aoe and casting isn't an option etc, so most rotations out there will have you maximising Blizz III and Fire III to keep up those stacks in between switches.

Use b3. SOMETIMES blizzard 4 skipping to do 5 f4s is a dps gain, but only if you can assure your MP will be full before using f3 (having a t3p and a foul with a nearly instant mp tic after b3 is finished), and you watch mp tics/have a foul/t3p to use after the next b3 since you'll have not enough mp after that b3 to b4 and possibly not a foul depending on your timer, and you don't want to wait for a tic, as that will negate any gain and leave you negative. Even done correctly it's just a small gain, so unless you're really comfortable with a fight I wouldn't really recommend it. Remember, unless you're watching your mp tics and timing it properly, you don't want to end umbral ice with a non proc t3, as it will result in not getting 6 f4's with b4, and not getting 5 f4's without b4.

Depending on your sps, this skip may potentially mess up your foul timing as well, so do with caution. It is a gain, but the amount of risk involved for a very mild gain is still really iffy.

Also a gain in a scenario where the boss will be untargetable and you won't get off all 6 f4s.

Keep in mind also that B3 from AF3 and F3 from UI3 are each only a GCD in cast time, whereas if you Transpose, the return to AF3 via F3 is going to cost you another .4 GCDs due to facing F3's full cast time, making the transpose only a .6 GCD gain. I'd only ever recommend it if you have at least 2 out of 3 among (a) Thundercloud, (b) Foul, and (c) lucky/early MP tick, and it's situational even then.

Wait, are we talking about a single target boss fight rotation, or a giant mob pack aoe rotation? On a single target you always want to end your astral fire state with enough MP to use B3 to swap stacks(and it typically lines up very nicely to do so). You get a faster cast, go to straight to full ice stacks, and get all your mana(technically more then all your mana) back in 2 ticks rather then 3-4. On an aoe rotation you often end your astral fire round with a cast of Flare, leaving you at 0 mana and forcing you to transpose. In this case yes, you do more damage by skipping B3 during your umbral phase.

Blizzard 3.

With Transpose, your Fire III to leave UI will be twice as slow and cost twice as much MP as it would if you were at UI3 for only a 0.2x bonus to potency to one of our least-powerful, MP-heavy spells. Plus at UI1 you would need three MP ticks, or even four if you are unlucky to be at full MP going back into fire.

Using Blizzard 3 gets you into UI just as fast (albeit at the end of the GCD instead of the start) and back into AF faster. Transpose is best delegated to "I might drop Enochian if I don't" or "I just Flare'd all my MP to 0."

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Originally Posted by Frizze

Wait, are we talking about a single target boss fight rotation, or a giant mob pack aoe rotation? On a single target you always want to end your astral fire state with enough MP to use B3 to swap stacks(and it typically lines up very nicely to do so). You get a faster cast, go to straight to full ice stacks, and get all your mana(technically more then all your mana) back in 2 ticks rather then 3-4. On an aoe rotation you often end your astral fire round with a cast of Flare, leaving you at 0 mana and forcing you to transpose. In this case yes, you do more damage by skipping B3 during your umbral phase.

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I've been doing blizz4 (umbral hearts) Fire 3, Flare Flare convert Flare pot Flare, Foul (sometimes x2) on big mob packs. is this good?

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Originally Posted by Sylvina

I've been doing blizz4 (umbral hearts) Fire 3, Flare Flare convert Flare pot Flare, Foul (sometimes x2) on big mob packs. is this good?

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That is the correct BLM AoE rotation, mostly. Add in Thunder 4 and use it's procs whenever you get them.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

That is the correct BLM AoE rotation, mostly. Add in Thunder 4 and use it's procs whenever you get them.

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Totally forgot to mention that, but I usually remember to use it lol.

Keeping up AF/UI 3 lets you weave Triplecast, Sharpcast, Swiftcast, Addle, Diversion, Lucid, etc after the accelerated Fire III/Blizzard III cast. If you're using Manashift, you'll also want B3's faster MP regen. FIII being so long to cast also makes it harder to get off during mechanic heavy fights where as the accelerated III spells are pretty safe and reliable. I don't use transpose unless absolutely necessary.

has anyone tested:

"transpose + B4 + (+ maybe T3 filler / proc) + foul + F3"

vs

"B3 (+ maybe T3 filler / proc) + foul + F3"

I mean tested with a parser ..since 4.4 / the latest F4 buff?

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

has anyone tested:

"transpose + B4 + (+ maybe T3 filler / proc) + foul + F3"

vs

"B3 (+ maybe T3 filler / proc) + foul + F3"

I mean tested with a parser ..since 4.4 / the latest F4 buff?

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Single Target:

Transpose only gets you one stack of Umbra so the MP regen will be too slow to get filled up before you go back to Astral. Also the B4 lets you cast an additional F4 because of the lower MP costs for the first 3 fire spells.

For Aoe:

Well, you need the Transpose because after Flare you have zero MP, so unless you have Convert/Potions to use (better used for more Flares) you must use Transpose to get the MP regen started.

You always use B4 during AoE as it lets you cast your second Flare due to the Umbral Heart mechanic. The only time I could think of when you wouldn't is if the adds will die without the last Flare anyways.

trasposing is slower, bit you cast a B4 + foul + possible filler, mp might just tick up, also since you have to hardcast f3, which is slower too..

I havent tried it out yet (since I cant pars eitherway, ps4...), but B4 has more potenvy than B3, even if you lose time hardcasting f3, you get an extra f4.

just curious if the rota really doest work (will there always be too little mp?), and by how much worse it is (or better??).., maybe the rota could work, but needs a standard start rota first (with B3) as an openet, to lay the track, so foul will be ready or something)

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

trasposing is slower, bit you cast a B4 + foul + possible filler, mp might just tick up, also since you have to hardcast f3, which is slower too..

I havent tried it out yet (since I cant pars eitherway, ps4...), but B4 has more potenvy than B3, even if you lose time hardcasting f3, you get an extra f4.

just curious if the rota really doest work (will there always be too little mp?), and by how much worse it is (or better??).., maybe the rota could work, but needs a standard start rota first (with B3) as an openet, to lay the track, so foul will be ready or something)

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or is the main problem, not having enough mp for B4 after transposing? (waiting always to long?)... , talking about single target

(sry for the typos, using my mobile)

You do not use Transpose to switch between Astral Fire and Umbral Ice after you hit Lv40 on BLM for single target, period. The MP regen from one stack is too low, B4 does not add any stacks, and you can not always 100% ensure you would have a proc to extrend your Umbral phase anyways (which is bad as it is).

Transpose is only used to go to Umbral in two situations; a pre-lv40 BLM without B3, or you are doing the AoE rotation.

my question is not "what is the stadard single target blm rotation"..

but what is the effective dps diffrence between those 2 rotations 8n patch 4.4

since F4 is stronger than ever and since (a few patches) mana seems to tick better (like faster)..

if anyone one has tried to pars the differences, Im just curious..

and it seems, mana can tick up enough when transposing wirh only one UI.., since B3 needs less mana than B3.. and the mana has time to fully o tick up after B4 a foul and "slow" casting F3 .., beforw you start F4

B4 has more potency than B3, with B4 you even get sn extra F4.., so the overall dps diffrence might be very close to each other, even if slow casting F3.

B4 isn't really about DPS, it's about MP reliability. It's their solution to the server MP tick black mages have had.

Where B3 -> B4/T3 -> T3/B4 -> Foul -> F3 is guaranteed to put you at full MP upon F3's completion unless you have absurd spellspeed. Like in the range of a total of 40-45%.

umbral hearts are better seen as 1200 MP as the spells they reduce cost 2400 normall, but 1200 with a heart. Therefore, you're entering AF3 with 14860 + 3600 MP.

If you're transposing to UI, it is entirely possible to miss your MP tick window for no benefit, as even though B3/F3 at max opposing stance is 50% faster, it's still one GCD. Doing so means you'll finish F3 before your MP ticks to full and therefore entirely waste whatever time you might gain.

Dancing around the MP tick can lead to DPS increases in some scenarios, but B4 is neutral at worst, while mussing up your MP tick is a huge negative.