(Spoilery)Tenzen was the Warrior of Light centuries ago

I just finished/caught up with the Four Lords story and after seeing it all, I'm inclined to believe that Tenzen was the Warrior of Light or at least a Warrior of Light.

-When the Four Lords in their early stages would try and speak, he could understand their words. So that must mean he had the Echo. One similar to Krile's.

-Suzaku makes mention of how we the players share the same "Blessing" that Tenzen had. I can only assume she was referring to Hydaelyn's Blessing.

-Tenzen was an extremely powerful and skilled warrior who was stronger than any man who took down gods and fought with Auspices, like we the players are doing, kinda.

-He was super kind, loving, and gentle. Always willing to help those in need and he travelled the entire world to try and help everyone.

-Based off of Suzaku's account and the memory picture we see, Tenzen died in a flash of light and sparkles, with Suzaku saying she watched the Light leave him.

All those things besides dying are exactly the same as what we are as WoLs. Which was what angered Suzaku so much. We are a "spitting image" of Tenzen which is the same thing the Alliance leaders say to us way earlier in lv15 story. That we remind them of the past WoLs they knew 5 years ago(talking about non-legacy here). I wonder, are all Warriors of Light simply reincarnations of a single person/a group of people?

Questionssss.

As I recall it was established back prior to the fight with Byakko that Tenzen was likely a Warrior of Light. Suzaku all but outright confirms it.

I think most of this is more or less accurate. Tenzen is pretty much rock solid confirmed to have the Echo. Krile availed herself of the blessing of Light, so we know that's something that can potentially come at the Echo layer (here's a crystal you are now a Warrior of Light) rather than the Champion layer (all the crystals, extraordinary power). Ysayle exploded into Light mist, too, if you recall.


So Tenzen = A Warrior of Light (Echo, etc.)? Probably.


Tenzen = THE Warrior of Light (Hydaelyn's singular Champion)? Probably not.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I think most of this is more or less accurate. Tenzen is pretty much rock solid confirmed to have the Echo. Krile availed herself of the blessing of Light, so we know that's something that can potentially come at the Echo layer (here's a crystal you are now a Warrior of Light) rather than the Champion layer (all the crystals, extraordinary power). Ysayle exploded into Light mist, too, if you recall.


So Tenzen = A Warrior of Light (Echo, etc.)? Probably.


Tenzen = THE Warrior of Light (Hydaelyn's singular Champion)? Probably not.

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Indeed Moose... that's how it sounded to me. Tenzen is essentially a Warrior of Light for that era with the Echo ability but the current WoL is likely the epitome of Hydaelyn's champion.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

We are a "spitting image" of Tenzen which is the same thing the Alliance leaders say to us way earlier in lv15 story. That we remind them of the past WoLs they knew 5 years ago(talking about non-legacy here). I wonder, are all Warriors of Light simply reincarnations of a single person/a group of people.

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It's definitely certain that Tenzen had the Echo. And the evidence does seem to heavily imply that he was also a Warrior of Light (ie, he likely possessed a crystal of light, just like Ysayle did).

But it's probably a stretch to say all WoLs are reincarnations of past heroes, because there's nothing to suggest that reincarnation exists in this reality. The closest we have to this belief system is that of the Dotharl in the Azim Steppe and, even there, it's heavily implied that " reincarnation" isn't what the tribe actually thinks it is.

As far as we know, when mortals die, their aether returns to the Lifestream, where it's "recycled" into new life and objects. That could be taken as a form of reincarnation, if you want, but it's not quite the same as old soul born anew, is it?

And as for the WoL the GC leaders mentioned, since you specifically stated "non-legacy", then no, those weren't Warriors of Light per se. It's simply how the survivors of the Calamity chose to honour those who fought in Carteneau that day.

I'm looking forward to learning more about Tenzen. He seems like a very likable fellow and it's good to learn more about previous Warriors of Light and how they chose to wield their power.

Yes, the fact that he bore a resemblance to Tenzen from FFXI already made me like him immediately.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

All those things besides dying are exactly the same as what we are as WoLs. Which was what angered Suzaku so much. We are a "spitting image" of Tenzen which is the same thing the Alliance leaders say to us way earlier in lv15 story. That we remind them of the past WoLs they knew 5 years ago(talking about non-legacy here). I wonder, are all Warriors of Light simply reincarnations of a single person/a group of people?

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The very simple argument against a non-legacy character being a reincarnation of the previous 'Heroes of Carteneau' Warrior(s?) of Light is that they're too old. The battle was only five years ago, and - assuming our character is a normal living person - they were already alive at that point.

The only possibility might be that in a "non-legacy timeline of events", Louisoix's spell didn't physically save the Warriors of Light but sent their souls backwards in time to be reborn, to come of age in the time beyond the Calamity and bring about the new dawn... I'm not sure if it makes sense but he had to be doing something, and if that wasn't sending the heroes forward in time (as for legacy characters), then what?

But that's messy, and I'm more inclined to think that Hydaelyn just chooses and empowers new people each time.

I don't see this having much weight though as the Warrior of Light (mentioned in the text of the Minion Guide for the Minion of Light) is that they are specifically a hero that appears around the time of a Calamity to unite the people of that time... only to then disappear without a trace as "Calamity rains down from the heavens." As the next previous Calamity was nearly 2000 years ago (the Sixth), then that simply doesn't fit for Tenzen.

The player is only known as the 'Warrior of Light' as a kind of legacy of the original ones from this era (the 1.0 players who disappeared on the Carteneau Flats, and, from the point of view of a new player, never returned), because their actions came after the Calamity, and so they kind of inheritied the mantle (the Alliance refered to the original 7th Calamity adventurers as such because of the aetheric amnesia that clouded their memories and thus forgot their identities, only leaving a vague sillhouette "as if obscured by a bright light."). It's a figure of speech. So it just doesn't fit Tenzen.

More likely this is simply a reference to Tenzen's original FFXI appearence, where he was a major protagonist (and temporary antagonist!) of FFXI's Chains of Promathia expansion storyline.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

...the Warrior of Light (mentioned in the text of the Minion Guide for the Minion of Light) is that they are specifically a hero that appears around the time of a Calamity to unite the people of that time... only to then disappear without a trace as "Calamity rains down from the heavens."

The player is only known as the 'Warrior of Light' as a kind of legacy of the original ones from this era (the 1.0 players who disappeared on the Carteneau Flats, and, from the point of view of a new player, never returned), because their actions came after the Calamity, and so they kind of inheritied the mantle (the Alliance refered to the original 7th Calamity adventurers as such because of the aetheric amnesia that clouded their memories and thus forgot their identities, only leaving a vague sillhouette "as if obscured by a bright light.").

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So an additional thought on this... if new Warriors of Light are created in preparation for each Calamity, and we-the-non-legacy-WoL came into our power well after the Seventh Umbral Calamity... we may not just be here to have brought in the Seventh Astral Era, we are primarily here to stop the Eighth Calamity. They're just so close together that the "Eighth Calamity WoL" had to be born before the Seventh even got to do their job yet.

Alternately for a legacy player, the Seventh and Eighth Calamities are so close together that it's their job to deal with both.

And "disappearing without a trace" at the end, hmm.... does that only happen if we fail to prevent the Eighth Calamity? Or are we going to overcome that somehow? (Assuming they're not going to bring our characters to a fixed endpoint without a continuing existance afterwards. Perhaps we'll no longer be 'the warrior of Light' in the end though.) Is that where the possibility of completely breaking the universe-status-quo will come into it?

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I think most of this is more or less accurate. Tenzen is pretty much rock solid confirmed to have the Echo. Krile availed herself of the blessing of Light, so we know that's something that can potentially come at the Echo layer (here's a crystal you are now a Warrior of Light) rather than the Champion layer (all the crystals, extraordinary power). Ysayle exploded into Light mist, too, if you recall.


So Tenzen = A Warrior of Light (Echo, etc.)? Probably.


Tenzen = THE Warrior of Light (Hydaelyn's singular Champion)? Probably not.

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Yeah I actually made a thread asking if Ysayle was a WoL too! If you remember. And it was decided that she was more just a "Servant of Light" as she only had one crystal. I thought about all of those things in that thread and it actually encouraged me to make this one when I compared the differences between Ysayle and Tenzen. Tenzen, to me shows much more evidence to the possibility of being at least A Warrior of Light.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

I don't see this having much weight though as the Warrior of Light (mentioned in the text of the Minion Guide for the Minion of Light) is that they are specifically a hero that appears around the time of a Calamity to unite the people of that time... only to then disappear without a trace as "Calamity rains down from the heavens." As the next previous Calamity was nearly 2000 years ago (the Sixth), then that simply doesn't fit for Tenzen.

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But based off of what Genbu tells us, he foresaw a Calamity where the world is destroyed and in flames and everyone is dead(Koryu?) and he also foresaw many other tragic events. Tenzen stopped each one including the real possible Calamity which was Koryu, an Auspice threatening to destroy the entire world. The fact that Tenzen just so happened to be there to stop that Calamity and save countless people around the planet throughout his travels just doesn't sound like a coincidence. He even died right after the Calamity was averted. Typical WoL-style then, to disappear after it's over.

Maybe he wasn't the only WoL but I wonder why Hydaelyn didn't "send" other WoLs to help fight Koryu then. From the sounds of it, Koryu sounds like a Bahamut-level Doomsday threat.

A calòamity where everything is destroyed was predicted since allag, that was also the reason why the revolutionaries created Heaven on High, which btw

Tenzen conquered by reaching the floor 100, you get this lore tidibit by completing the achievemnent of showing the 4 accessories to the confederate pirate.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Yeah I actually made a thread asking if Ysayle was a WoL too! If you remember. And it was decided that she was more just a "Servant of Light" as she only had one crystal.

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I don't think there's any doubt that Ysayle was a Warrior of Light: That was pretty much confirmed by Y'shtola herself. And you don't need more than one crystal of light to qualify. Acquiring one alone is already considered a feat.

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I wonder why Hydaelyn didn't "send" other WoLs to help fight Koryu then. From the sounds of it, Koryu sounds like a Bahamut-level Doomsday threat.

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It should be pointed out that Hydaelyn doesn't "direct" Warriors of Light to do anything. She trusts instead in their inherent goodness to act accordingly, out of their own free will. That, after all, is the point behind acquiring the crystals of light -- they must be earned through the deeds of an Echo-user. Getting the Echo is merely the first step towards becoming a Warrior of Light. To become Her instrument, you would have to go on to prove that Her faith in you is justified.

As for whether Koryu could have been an epoch ending Calamity, that's certainly something to mull over, considering how the history of the world so far has been entirely Eorzea-centric. Were there comparable events in the Far East that would have been experienced at the same time in Eorzea? As it stands right now, we simply don't know.

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

As for whether Koryu could have been an epoch ending Calamity, that's certainly something to mull over, considering how the history of the world so far has been entirely Eorzea-centric. Were there comparable events in the Far East that would have been experienced at the same time in Eorzea? As it stands right now, we simply don't know.

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To be honest, only a few calmaities are known to have originated from Eorzea : the Fourth (Dalamud / Allagan), the Sixth (the great Flood) and the Seventh (Bahamut is back babies).
The first, second, third and fifth are almost always "well it hapepned because reasons, because gods, because things".

They might have originated from other areas (Fire could have been Koryu using his power to empower the sun, before Tenzen defeated him, for instance). But we still don't really know :)

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

It should be pointed out that Hydaelyn doesn't "direct" Warriors of Light to do anything. She trusts instead in their inherent goodness to act accordingly, out of their own free will. That, after all, is the point behind acquiring the crystals of light -- they must be earned through the deeds of an Echo-user. Getting the Echo is merely the first step towards becoming a Warrior of Light. To become Her instrument, you would have to go on to prove that Her faith in you is justified.

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Yeah that's actually what I meant by "sending" in quotations. Sorry if I wasn't very clear. Like have more people that are "fated" to be good like us and fight evil all over the world, like Tenzen.

I never really thought about it but in retrospect him having the echo makes a lot of sense.

I'm open to the notion that Tenzen was a fully-fledged Warrior of Light with crystals up the wazoo. There's no reason why us, the player character, needs to be the best evar WoL - and even if we are, there could have been folks in the past of comparable ability.

I'm also partial to the notion that the Twelve were also Warriors of Light, from back in Hydaelyn's heyday when she could afford to empower a dozen (plus one) mortals at once, not realizing then just how bloody tenacious the Ascians would turn out to be... I'm guessing the Twelve had just one crystal each, though, corresponding to their element (thunder for Rhalgr, earth for Nophica, and so on).

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Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

It's definitely certain that Tenzen had the Echo. And the evidence does seem to heavily imply that he was also a Warrior of Light (ie, he likely possessed a crystal of light, just like Ysayle did).

But it's probably a stretch to say all WoLs are reincarnations of past heroes, because there's nothing to suggest that reincarnation exists in this reality. The closest we have to this belief system is that of the Dotharl in the Azim Steppe and, even there, it's heavily implied that " reincarnation" isn't what the tribe actually thinks it is.

As far as we know, when mortals die, their aether returns to the Lifestream, where it's "recycled" into new life and objects. That could be taken as a form of reincarnation, if you want, but it's not quite the same as old soul born anew, is it?

And as for the WoL the GC leaders mentioned, since you specifically stated "non-legacy", then no, those weren't Warriors of Light per se. It's simply how the survivors of the Calamity chose to honour those who fought in Carteneau that day.

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Hmm... It could be that, like the Ascians, the WoLs soul is kept separate from the rest of the aether.
As far as I'm aware, cannonically the WoL has no memory of his/her life before the start of the game, so being a direct reincarnation of the WoL 5 years ago isn't impossible.

I don't recall the game every saying that the WOL has no memory of their past life. So far as I recall the WOL's past is left open ended to better allow you to make your own headcanon and the only WOL related amnesia was people forgetting the 1.0 WOLs, of whom your character may or may not be one depending on if you played in 1.0 or made a new character in ARR onward.