[4.4 Spoiler] Alpha and Omega

So, I'm diving into the new raid, and I have to say that the cutscene is REALLY confusing.

Omega says that he based Alpha off of some mundane creature that beat an impossibly difficult opponent, and then chocobo feathers fell everywhere. This is clearly referencing some super-heroic chocobo somewhere, but I have absolutely no idea what one it would be referring to. Is this a reference to an old FF game that I've forgotten? Something in FFXIV that I'm blanking on? Or has it yet to be revealed?

I can think of a few noteworthy chocobos, but none that would seem to fit this bill.

Probably Chocobo Racing on the PS1

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/C...Chocobo_series)

Alpha is from this.

Alpha is Chocobo from the game "Chocobo Dungeon"/"Chocobo Racing".

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20071101132931
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20060321223702\


Choco/Mog summon from FF7 is also a reference to this series, as they were best friends/rivals.

Didn't Omega also say that once he made Alpha he kept doing tests against him without good results or something? I thought the implication was basically that Omega trounced Alpha a bunch in combat scenarios trying to recreate what the original chocobo did, but I could be wrong about that.

Something that confuses me a bit... Midgar fled his original world to ours with Omega on his trail, but Omega also says he wasn't able to beat Midgar? What exactly happened there?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Something that confuses me a bit... Midgar fled his original world to ours with Omega on his trail, but Omega also says he wasn't able to beat Midgar? What exactly happened there?

---

It's a bit vague, and while this may be purely conjecture on my part I believe the implications are that the war probably made the Dragonstar untenable for Midgardsormr and his children to continue living there, and so they left to pursue a new world to inhabit. The battlefield simulated in Middy's fight sure seemed far from hospitable, even for a species as robust as the dragons.

As far as Alpha's concerned, that was my impression too, and it was only after the apparent failures that Omega re-purposed him to attract potential test subjects.

I find it strange that they had stated that omega creations all dissappeared, except for alpha. In addition, why did it vanish when it died? Is there perhaps something there that could explain why Alpha now has a soul?

Alpha gained a soul by developing the ability to care about others and that pushed him to become something more than what he was created to be.

I've never been so moved by a raid story before. Omega has done everything it could to gain strength but eventually realized the kind of strength it lacked was impossible to achieve due to its own flawed design. And when you learn that the only reason behind it all, all Omega wished for, was just to go home… And as it finally starts to attain what it lacks, it disintegrates. It’s interesting that this happens in a way similar to how beings with a soul sometimes turn into crystal dust upon death, so maybe it finally gained some semblance of a soul? At least Alpha managed it and survived to enjoy exploring the world. It was also sad how he behaved towards Omega like a child to its emotionally cold and distant mother.

If other planets exist...how does the creation story of FFXIV fit in. It seemed like the universe was an aetheric sea until Hydalyn split Zodiark from it because he was growing power hungry, thus creating a physical and aetheric plane and she coalesced into a planet and he the moon. Now this is all well and good because this is a myth from the perspective of mankind...but what about other planets with other alien life. Are they too also with their own lifestreams? With their own mothercrystals with personas? Are Ascians bound only to the conflict of Zodiark/Hydalyn or do they have a universal presence? Is Zodiark and Hydalyn only gods of this small section of space or are they omnipotent? What of other "gods" on other worlds? By introducing Middy/Omega as extraterrestrials, it begs so many questions.

That is something I'm definetly wondering about. It doesn't help either that the same word in Japanese can refer to both a "star" and a "planet". So every time those words get thrown around, I can't help but think the situation is fuzzier then it's made out to be in English.

The Astrologin quests further muddy the waters. In them, we learn that stars give off aether, and the power of the constellations is based in the aether that comes from them. So it seems different stars have different aether qualities. This can be seen in Ishgardian Astrology which is mainly focused on charting the changes in the Dragonstar. Doing so lets them roughly predict the state of the Dravainian Horde. Given what we've learned from the Omega raid, it seems this could be the star/planet the Midgardsormr originally came from. And it could still linked to its former inhabitants' aether in some way even after all that time and distance.

So yeah, I'm wondering how "local" Hydaelyn and Zodiark's conflict is. Are they just confined to a planet? Did they do something that is causing problems throughout the universe if left unchecked? Do all other planets have Hydaelyn/Zodiark counterparts and ours are more dysfunctional then most? What makes me think the Hydaelyn/Zodiark conflict isn't a "local" conflict is how the separated Shards seem to work. If we were in a sci-fi 'verse, it almost sounds like Hydaelyn broke space/time. But is that 14 other versions of the universe? or 14 other versions of one planet?

The Omega raid was a little weak I felt if just looking at the self-contained plot. How the revelations it gives fits into the greater cosmology is a lot more interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vayanne

Alpha gained a soul by developing the ability to care about others and that pushed him to become something more than what he was created to be.

I've never been so moved by a raid story before. Omega has done everything it could to gain strength but eventually realized the kind of strength it lacked was impossible to achieve due to its own flawed design. And when you learn that the only reason behind it all, all Omega wished for, was just to go home… And as it finally starts to attain what it lacks, it disintegrates. It’s interesting that this happens in a way similar to how beings with a soul sometimes turn into crystal dust upon death, so maybe it finally gained some semblance of a soul? At least Alpha managed it and survived to enjoy exploring the world. It was also sad how he behaved towards Omega like a child to its emotionally cold and distant mother.

---

I totally got that, too. Also I was thinking that maybe Omega really did manifest in the little minion that leaves with Alpha on his journey and that the text-over was actually Omega speaking to us. It would expain the minion springing to life to follow Alpha, the pov shot as it's running, and the confusion the WoL expresses. That would be a perfect closure to me, and for once a happy ending. The way Omega dissolved into aether was significant it seems and whatever planet/dimension it came from is probably long dead.

Also it seemed like the final fight took place in the same place our Shinryu fight did. I liked that touch. Also it's implied that the Shinryu/Omega dynamic might have been Midgardsomr/Omega instead, so we can attribute some of Shinryu's lore to Midgardsomr as well? I suppose it's all subjective. But this was definitly a better raid quest-line than previous.

Oh cute!!!

You can find Alpha hanging out in the world!

Cid suggests that while Shinryu was not intentionally based on Midgarsormr, that when it was summoned Midgar's influence on dragon legends in Eorzea may have indirectly caused similarities.

As for the toy, I was expecting some kind of sign that Omega's 'soul' somehow found its way into it but I don't think that actually happened. calls it a 'toy that follows you around' so I think it following Alpha is just what it was made to do. Though Omega giving up the combat thing and following Alph would have made an interesting ending.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Cid suggests that while Shinryu was not intentionally based on Midgarsormr, that when it was summoned Midgar's influence on dragon legends in Eorzea may have indirectly caused similarities.

As for the toy, I was expecting some kind of sign that Omega's 'soul' somehow found its way into it but I don't think that actually happened. calls it a 'toy that follows you around' so I think it following Alpha is just what it was made to do. Though Omega giving up the combat thing and following Alph would have made an interesting ending.

---

I think its closer than that. depending on when Middy touched down, couldn't he have inspired the legend and worship of Rhalgr? They kept cutting to that mountain in the distance, and that was connected to Rhalgr, iirc...


So, in its own way, it completes the cycle.


Dragon crashes. Dragon crash is confused as the act of a god. God is named Rhalgr. Man calls upon Rhalgr to come as a primal to strike his foes. Man gets a Dragon Primal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

I think its closer than that. depending on when Middy touched down, couldn't he have inspired the legend and worship of Rhalgr? They kept cutting to that mountain in the distance, and that was connected to Rhalgr, iirc...


So, in its own way, it completes the cycle.


Dragon crashes. Dragon crash is confused as the act of a god. God is named Rhalgr. Man calls upon Rhalgr to come as a primal to strike his foes. Man gets a Dragon Primal.

---

Maybe? I think Ilberd's summon being Rhalgr was just speculation by players between 3.5 and 3.55 though. Nothing in the story directly hinted at it that I remember, and Rhalgr is depicted as a bearded man. I did hear that the Sylphs might have borrowed from Rhalgr to make Ramuh though.

Another interesting parallel I noted is that Alpha was instilled with a strong instinct to follow and always return to Omega. With the toy, it's now the other way around.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

They kept cutting to that mountain in the distance, and that was connected to Rhalgr, iirc...

---

For some reason I had thought there were lines (much to my dismay) that confirmed that the mountain w/ the giant hole was caused by Omega during his battle with Shinryu (specifically Delta cannon, I'd imagine).

I don't think we ever got an official explanation what happened to the mountain. It does seem to be lined up with the Yawn though? Or maybe Omega made it when it crash-landed on the planet in the first place. Somehow.

I'm a little confused on the Yawn too actually. Estinien's dialogue suggests it was made when Omega landed after the battle, but I remember there was also some minor NPC dialogue that made it sound like it was older? Or maybe I was just extrapolating from it being named like an established feature of the landscape and not "that giant crater that got blown into it a month ago".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Maybe? I think Ilberd's summon being Rhalgr was just speculation by players between 3.5 and 3.55 though. Nothing in the story directly hinted at it that I remember, and Rhalgr is depicted as a bearded man. I did hear that the Sylphs might have borrowed from Rhalgr to make Ramuh though.

---

The reason for the speculation is that primals are generally brought about through worship, and ala mhigans worship Rhalgr. Under that logic though, Archbishop thordan would have become Halone (or maybe he did! let the speculation begin). At this point I am slightly confused by the worship aspect of summoning. It makes sense for the beast tribes and shiva, but it gets a bit more complicated when you look at thordan and shinryu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

Dragon crashes. Dragon crash is confused as the act of a god. God is named Rhalgr. Man calls upon Rhalgr to come as a primal to strike his foes. Man gets a Dragon Primal.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

I did hear that the Sylphs might have borrowed from Rhalgr to make Ramuh though.

---

This is right. I believe it might say in the lore book (citation needed), but if Rhalgar = dragon then Ramuh would also be a dragon.

I think it's possible that Ilberd's intent was to summon Rhalgr (compare the early-game plot in Little Ala Mhigo where the Ascians are encouraging them to do the same) but somewhere along the line it got mixed with the concept of a dragon - whether because of the dragon's eyes he was using as a power source, or just looking for a more imposing form - or perhaps because his original plan was interrupted by us, he didn't have as firm a grip on exactly what he was summoning.

I also think it's likely he wasn't going to sacrifice himself, but only did so because (due to our unplanned victory over him) he was dying anyway. Thus, he wasn't around to control the summoning as it took form. If we hadn't intervened, perhaps it would have been Rhalgr that manifested.

(Running from memory on all this, though. I haven't rewatched those cutscenes since I first saw them.)

Maybe but considering Ilberd made a reference to Bahamut during the summoning but not to Rhalgr I didn't really get the feeling he ever intended to make 'Rhalgr.' Why don't we just go ask him...oh right nevermind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bright-Flower

Maybe but considering Ilberd made a reference to Bahamut during the summoning but not to Rhalgr I didn't really get the feeling he ever intended to make 'Rhalgr.' Why don't we just go ask him...oh right nevermind.

---

That's what I remembered too. It's been a while since I watched those scenes, but I do remember Ilberd saying something along the lines of wanting to call on a being comparable to the one that caused the calamity. The case of Shinryu's summoning is a bit unique in its own right though, as it was fueled by the dying hatred of all the soldiers that were caught up in his plan rather than religious fervor. In any case, I think those scenes are definitely worth revisiting in light of recent events.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

I think it's possible that Ilberd's intent was to summon Rhalgr (compare the early-game plot in Little Ala Mhigo where the Ascians are encouraging them to do the same) but somewhere along the line it got mixed with the concept of a dragon - whether because of the dragon's eyes he was using as a power source, or just looking for a more imposing form - or perhaps because his original plan was interrupted by us, he didn't have as firm a grip on exactly what he was summoning.

I also think it's likely he wasn't going to sacrifice himself, but only did so because (due to our unplanned victory over him) he was dying anyway. Thus, he wasn't around to control the summoning as it took form. If we hadn't intervened, perhaps it would have been Rhalgr that manifested.

(Running from memory on all this, though. I haven't rewatched those cutscenes since I first saw them.)

---

Ilberd, Alphinaud, and the quest text all pretty specifically point out that what he's trying to do is make the calamity of Bahamut happen again. He also makes specific mention of not channeling faith in his summoning, the burst of aether of the dead and dying, their rage and hatred are the fuel and channeling motivator. Further, I don't think the eyes have influence on the shape of the primal they're fueling otherwise Thordan might have had draconic features, and Thordan happened when the eyes still contained the sentient will of Nidhogg.

I'm not sure there's any overlap between the Rhalgr and Midgardsormr since the prevailing faith around Rhalgr is built around a 1000-ish year old story of the post-Magi war survivors following a comet. Midgardsormr and Omega came to this planet at least 5000 years before that happened, as Omega was dug up by the Allagans and Midgardsormr had been around so much longer than that that his brood had propagated into multiple societies of their own.

What Cid posits is that as the Ur-Dragon, Midgardsormr is even more embedded to the collective unconscious in visions of dragons than Bahamut, who would only be recalled by surviving western Eorzeans and some Garleans.

To go with the above, Shinryu is called Shinryu in the first place because the Doman refugees thought he looked like their stories of dragons, one of which was named Shinryu. To go with that, Midgardsomr has Shinryu's ultimate, Protostar in O10. Or rather, Shinryu probably has a smaller version of Midgardsomr's ult...