I feel the need to break down the Pagos Light situation

Heya all, Aster E here, and I really, really don't like Pagos for a laundry list of reasons that don't appear to have a fix in sight. Maybe I'll make a big topic about that, or Eureka in general, in the future? I don't know yet. Tonight, however, I have the urge to try to show exactly how ridiculous the grind is right now, at the time of me writing this as I try to get my umpteenth group today alone (and while working on relic #3 of 4 that I actually need).

So, regardless of whether you got to eLV 35 via Notorious Monsters or chaining monsters that are, in several opinions, more beefy than they ought to be, you probably still need a good number of Frosted Protean Crystals, meaning you have to dive back in to killing monsters--or else taking way, way longer on NMs alone, though you do also need a bunch of those anyways for 500 Pagos Crystals--for increments of light. However, as we all know by now, there is only a chance of light dropping at any mob kill.

That's not all. Just because a monster says it gives Feeble doesn't mean it's the same level of Feeble as another mob or NM. Below I have attempted an estimate, possibly inaccurate, as to values given, as determined by half-assed measurements of the progress bar:

• 1 - Less than a hair's width.
  For those of you still trying to share a spot for those sleeping dragons, listen up. When you try to share a level 40 Void Dragon, at level 35, with another party you cause everyone to lose out, because every suffusion during the early part of a chain will give this amount, and most people won't see their bars move at all despite the "Feeble" message. Even at an assumed constant of one drop per three or four mobs, this will take a long time to get anywhere.
• 2 - One hair's width
  Let's assume no one is salty in the aforementioned scenario with dragon sharing, and everyone is patient long enough to get to the latter parts of a chain. A single boost to light might look like this.
• 5 or 6 points - a little nub
  Let's throw out the second party trying for the one dragon, and say that one group is running things rather smoothly in one of two spots where chaining a pair of sleeping dragons is possible. This is the value you're likely to see early on in the chain, without an Adaptation.
• Up to 9, I want to say, for Feeble?
  Alright, it's your one party, the chain is growing steadily despite the timer shrinking at a stupid rate that definitely puts the northern dragon spot at risk. You are seeing Adaptations. When light drops at a rate I want to define as 28-30%, you will see each suffusion grow at almost double the potency from when you started that chain. Now if only the light was a better constant, and if only the Chain #30 dragon would Adapt to go with it (as that would be Gentle). Between the previous value and this, except a bar per hour.
• 15-18 - Chimeras, Griffins, and Morbols (oh my?!)
  While still "Feeble" light, this amount is higher than the sleeping dragons in potent value, for sure. If you are lucky enough to get a tick early on in your chain then you might see closer to 15 points; the key term there is "If you are lucky enough." The majority of us probably are not very lucky in most cases, huh? At this point it seems as though the drop rate for light has reduced to 15% or less, so anyone with poor luck who decides to do this in place of the sleeping dragons can very easily receive only a couple ticks, or none at all. If you can benefit from this then all the more power to you and your luck-based privilege, but don't expect it to work out for everyone else. Oh yeah, and this says nothing of the ice sprites or Val Corpses that can show up in the back of the cave where the Chimeras are at.
• 30 - Holy Cow
  No, I mean that's roughly the amount you can expect from a single Notorious Monster by this name, just southwest of the Gravitational Studies aetheryte. This is one of the higher level NMs, and the NMs don't exactly spawn terribly frequently on most instances, even truly fresh ones as opposed to quickly recycled instances. Lower level NMs give less, obviously, such as Snow Queen giving around 12-14 points.
• 40 - Louhi?
  Maybe? I think? If you get Gold on Louhi then you've just reached the limits to what "Feeble" might give. Congratulations.

I have not seen enough "Gentle" lights, let alone better, to be able to measure those. I will, however, estimate a full bar as being 150 points of light. I will also estimate, given the delays behind Pagos, how unfun it has been for so many of us, the time of the level grind (whatever process we took), the fact that we need 31 of these crystals for one weapon to finally have a purple background, and how i370 will be irrelevant in a couple weeks here, that this grind for light takes exactly too damn long.

It would be nice if the southernmost dragon of the canyon of lowbie death were moved so it could be chained with the eastern dragon, or vice versa. It would be nice if two parties could share a mob without exp or light rewards taking a huge hit. It would be nice if the drop rates for light were greatly improved across the board.

As more and more people hit eLV 35, some of us needing to complete more than one weapon for various reasons, it becomes more and more imperative that we all have more options available to us, feasible ones. Options that actually work for the average player. Until then, I hope this at least helps someone understand the current situation a little better in regards to what we have to do in order to progress.

Because yeah, progression for those of us who waited so long for content that was promised to be fun, because some of us don't raid hardcore (again, reasons), is locked heavily behind RNG that's on top of yet more grinding.

Again, my apologies for potential inaccuracies to the values. Thank you for reading.

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Originally Posted by Aster_E

(and while working on relic #3 of 4 that I actually need)

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I do want to point out that if the precedent set by the previous relics are anything to go by, this grind is a BABY grind compared to what is to come. It's a mistake to expect to obtain multiple relics in any kind of reasonable amount of effort. Certainly, don't take the Anemos stage as any sort of indicator; the way Pagos started out, I have the strong suspicion that the generosity of Anemos was an unanticipated mistake. SE was not expecting the train, and the train made it ludicrously easy to obtain an absurd number of Anemos crystals. SE took two steps to remedy that in Pagos. First, they killed the train. Secondly, they made obtaining relic materials less tightly tied to NMs. They eventually went back on the former due to player outrage, but the latter is still a thing.

In short, it will only get worse from here. The light grind, bad as it is, is STILL more generous than any of the previous relics' light grinds. Those grinds were just more palatable because you could accomplish them by doing daily activities you'd do anyway, like Roulettes, or in activities you could cheese, like A1S. You could argue that those light grinds were not locked behind RNG, but other steps in the process most definitely were. Atma farming, anyone? I expect much more aggravating grinds to come in future installments of Eureka. If you're setting your sights on more than one relic, be prepared for pain, and lots of it.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I do want to point out that if the precedent set by the previous relics are anything to go by, this grind is a BABY grind compared to what is to come. It's a mistake to expect to obtain multiple relics in any kind of reasonable amount of effort.

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Relic type grinds use a tick-tock sort of pattern, alternating between gentle and long steps. Anemos was nearer the beginning of a raid cycle and giving equipment much weaker than Sigmascape Savage, so it was quick and gentle. Pagos came at the end of the Sigma cycle and its item level rewards almost match those raid weapons, so it was a long slow step. Next zone (I think called Pyros) will be soon after the start of Alphascape raid cycle and giving significantly inferior rewards compared to raid like anemos did, so it's probably a relatively quick step, just to get people topped up a bit so their eurekean gear isn't useless.

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Originally Posted by Rufalus

Relic type grinds use a tick-tock sort of pattern, alternating between gentle and long steps. Anemos was nearer the beginning of a raid cycle and giving equipment much weaker than Sigmascape Savage, so it was quick and gentle. Pagos came at the end of the Sigma cycle and its item level rewards almost match those raid weapons, so it was a long slow step. Next zone (I think called Pyros) will be soon after the start of Alphascape raid cycle and giving significantly inferior rewards compared to raid like anemos did, so it's probably a relatively quick step, just to get people topped up a bit so their eurekean gear isn't useless.

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It is so. As we go through (what is likely) Fotia for the third phase of the Eureka weapons (and armor), we can count on the step being quick once we're at the third area's level cap.

Also, while other light grinds were long, and sometimes mindnumbing, they were constant. When you ran something, you knew you were at least getting light. Some of us were spoiled by the old days of T4, Garuda hm, and Ifrit hm being the main go-to sources for light, for TWO light grinding steps of one relic, maybe, or some of us by the snooze-inducing memories of grinding a1s to death, but an instance or fight that could give light DID give light. This light grind meets atma drops nonsense is congesting the limited number of Pagos instances with people trying to get their weapons done with limited, feasible options.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I do want to point out that if the precedent set by the previous relics are anything to go by, this grind is a BABY grind compared to what is to come. It's a mistake to expect to obtain multiple relics in any kind of reasonable amount of effort. Certainly, don't take the Anemos stage as any sort of indicator; the way Pagos started out, I have the strong suspicion that the generosity of Anemos was an unanticipated mistake. SE was not expecting the train, and the train made it ludicrously easy to obtain an absurd number of Anemos crystals. SE took two steps to remedy that in Pagos. First, they killed the train. Secondly, they made obtaining relic materials less tightly tied to NMs. They eventually went back on the former due to player outrage, but the latter is still a thing.

In short, it will only get worse from here. The light grind, bad as it is, is STILL more generous than any of the previous relics' light grinds. Those grinds were just more palatable because you could accomplish them by doing daily activities you'd do anyway, like Roulettes, or in activities you could cheese, like A1S. You could argue that those light grinds were not locked behind RNG, but other steps in the process most definitely were. Atma farming, anyone? I expect much more aggravating grinds to come in future installments of Eureka. If you're setting your sights on more than one relic, be prepared for pain, and lots of it.

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I don't see how they made it less tied to NM's when you need the crystals (only obtained by NMs) and louhi ice (again, only obtained via NMs).

There's a pretty disturbing theory on reddit that we are supposed to de-level to earn greater amounts of light.

Whether it's been designed like this on purpose or not, I can at least verify that joining a group killing mobs with friends 1-3 levels above my own gave me gentle light.

For me what worked was the sprite or undead at 5/10/15/20/25 and 30 while doing normal grind in between.

Not everyone will get a brighter light but for example yesterday, me and a friend killed gobbues lvl36 and took a sprite at chain 5. I got...A light and a half done in one kill! But sadly my friend didn't.

Just remember to kill mobs above lvl36 or it will not work at lvl35.

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Originally Posted by Aster_E

I have not seen enough "Gentle" lights

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i have ONCE it does exist its on the ads that spawn loui Val corpse? was Blizzard and i don't think they mutate or adapt
but the message Gentle light came up

honestly it just seems you farm the level 40 adds that mutate on weather and travel around according
clear skies? griffins, Blizzard? chimeras etc etc

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Originally Posted by Duskane

i have ONCE it does exist its on the ads that spawn loui Val corpse? was Blizzard and i don't think they mutate or adapt
but the message Gentle light came up

honestly it just seems you farm the level 40 adds that mutate on weather and travel around according
clear skies? griffins, Blizzard? chimeras etc etc

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Right, one of the few times I have seen "Gentle" was through the lv40 Val Corpses. I was lucky to see it that time, and it gave something like half of a bar at Chain #10.If the odds for light were better, and the placement of a few sprites and corpses were more favorable, then I would say the chimeras would be great. Sadly, again, "I was lucky" is not something I feel should be said for more casual progression, no matter how much this game loves to ram RNG down our throats. As a crafter and gatherer I already see more than enough of that, with or without overmelding.

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Originally Posted by Rockette

There's a pretty disturbing theory on reddit that we are supposed to de-level to earn greater amounts of light.

Whether it's been designed like this on purpose or not, I can at least verify that joining a group killing mobs with friends 1-3 levels above my own gave me gentle light.

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That is the stupidest fucking thing. Why not just put in a level sync? Then you can be lower level to earn light AND you can help lower levels if you want to break away from the NM train.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Why not just *do something good?

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Fixed and gonna point out it's SE you're asking this of.

Apparently can get Brilliant from a lv 40 sprite during blizzard if the Sprite is killed on for the 10,20,30 chain. Brilliant gives 3 full bars. There's also the ever-elusive "newborn star" which theoretically gives more than 3, but it's only been seen by 2 or 3 people and they were soloing high level chains with sprites on the 10/20/30.

Is it bad that all of this...complicated stuff makes me want to sit my ass down and just prog EX/Savage? Seems far, far less of hassle than...whatever this is.


Maybe that was SE's plan all along o.o

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Is it bad that all of this...complicated stuff makes me want to sit my ass down and just prog EX/Savage? Seems far, far less of hassle than...whatever this is.


Maybe that was SE's plan all along o.o

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And that is when they actually lose players, because forcing players into one type of content is how you kill a game community for something so broad as FFXIV (used to be).