[4.4 Discussion] "The Reunion"

A early post for what may or will happen later in 4.4 and during 4.4 so remember there will be spoilers below once 4.4 is officially released mid-September.

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So we are heading to the Burn on a rescue mission already in 4.4 and it seems to be our 4.4 Story Dungeon for this patch.

How do you think our reunion with Gaius may turn out? Will WoL and Y'shtola notice it is him without his signature garlean armor appearance but notice his white mask?

I thought they may hold this off until 5.0 but guess for now they want to establish our potential Garlean allies even if the alliance is a shaky one.

I think we'll get the initial revelation with Alphinaud rather than the "rescue team", and I'm interested to see how he handles it. I think it's possible he'll notice the mask early on, quietly draw conclusions and wait to see whether Gaius wants to explain. (That part might not happen until the WoL arrives.)

I'm almost dreading the first person to recognize him because I once joked that it should be Cid and that Nero should be there at the time, completely unfazed and unsurprised...but now I love the idea, lol.

ALPHINAUD
This is our new ally: Shadowhu--

CID
Gaius!? You... You're... but h--

NERO
Hey.

GAIUS
<lifts right hand slightly in half-hearted wave>

If for nothing else than that the idea Nero could have pulled Gaius out of the fire only to never bring it up ("because you never asked") is just so in line with his character and the style of smug comedy he exudes.

Yep... this will likely evolve its way into canon.

Ever since Nero reappeared during the Crystal Tower story arc (patch 2.1 or 2.2?) the notion that he pulled Gaius out of the fire has been the elephant in the room.

Well, ironically enough Nero appeared to be the most rebellious of Gaius's tribunes - Livia and Rhitahtyn were both zealously devoted to him, where as Nero simply went along with him for his own ends (not surprising then that he alone wisely realized when it was better to cut his losses and run after we beat him up, rather than his counterparts who fought us to the death, and paid for it with their lives). So yeah I too am keen to see a reunion between them... I imagine it would be very awkward.;)

As for Gaius's reunion with us, well, I can't help but picture it being a parody of Rufus's big reveal in FFVII Advent Children, complete with similar dialogue:

Gaius: "Good, you fight like the champion of the savages you claim to be..."
Gaius: "You haven't lost your touch..."
(The WoL's eyes widen and then narrow..)
WoL: "Gaius.. van Baelsar? Heh, do I feel sorry for you.." :p

I admit, if our reunion with him doesn't at least involve some reference to that I am going to be very disappointed... ;)

I almost expect Shadowhunter to mysteriously and Totally Coincidentally take his leave of Alphinaud and Maxima mere minutes before the rest of the Scions arrive, and Alphinaud goes "who was that gallant and amazingly cool man", and the Scions go "we never saw him, but if he helped you through the Burn he must be a good person", and half the playerbase expires from orbs azure.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Well, ironically enough Nero appeared to be the most rebellious of Gaius's tribunes - Livia and Rhitahtyn were both zealously devoted to him, where as Nero simply went along with him for his own ends (not surprising then that he alone wisely realized when it was better to cut his losses and run after we beat him up, rather than his counterparts who fought us to the death, and paid for it with their lives). So yeah I too am keen to see a reunion between them... I imagine it would be very awkward.;)

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And both Nero and Gaius were well aware that Gaius's first choice was always Cid, which would have been exceptionally annoying to Nero's inferiority complex. I'm not sure Gaius ever saw Nero as anything more than settling for what he could get, and Nero responded to that level of (lack of) loyalty in kind.

However, if they had both laid it out in the open (and I would imagine Gaius to be the sort to do so) from the beginning, then I'd imagine their professional relationship to be fairly acceptable. Both were doing their jobs, both knew what each expected of each other, and both had no hard feelings either way. If either one were the sort to let personal feelings interfere, I'd actually expect it to be Nero.

Y'shtola potentially being present is interesting given that she was also present during the temporary alliance with Regula van Hydrus. Alphinaud being saved by Gaius is also going to weigh heavily in Gaius' favour. The man is also pragmatic enough that he's likely to put old grudges aside for the sake of the greater threat - namely the Ascians.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

However, if they had both laid it out in the open (and I would imagine Gaius to be the sort to do so) from the beginning, then I'd imagine their professional relationship to be fairly acceptable. Both were doing their jobs, both knew what each expected of each other, and both had no hard feelings either way. If either one were the sort to let personal feelings interfere, I'd actually expect it to be Nero.

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It would almost be hard to not. If Cid and Nero knew each other from the age of twelve and Gaius more or less adopted Cid while Midas was working on Meteor, Nero would have spent a good few years knowing they were tight. When Cid defected would have been Nero's perfect time to declare, "Look, I know Cid was your first choice, but bring me on and I'll show that you'd have been better off with me from the start."

Everything Nero does he compares himself directly to the one guy; I'm surprised no one's ever pricked his pride with it. Imagine if when Nero declared "I'm the man who'll yet outdo Allag and Garlond", Rammbroes was just like, "Ya hear that, Cid, Scaeva thinks your name is emblematic of the Garlean engineering and technological apex!" and you just hear Nero echoing over a hill as he's walking away, "Damn it!"

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Originally Posted by Theodric

The man is also pragmatic enough that he's likely to put old grudges aside for the sake of the greater threat - namely the Ascians.

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I'd say that by working with Alphinaud, and by extension aiding the Scions (in a fashion), I'd say it's not just likely but has already happened.

Otherwise he'd have to be playing the long game for a grand betrayal at some point, and that runs the real risk of feeling Ilberd 2.0 (along with running counter to his pragmatic nature), so I don't think the story would support that particular direction anyway.

As for our actual Reunion, I'm of the mind that there will be some near misses in terms of actually meeting, and we may not meet until 4.5. I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that they are going to use the system they setup for 4.3 to help tell more of that side of the story without having to have us meet up quite yet and in a way that is more engaging than a simple cutscene.

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Originally Posted by YianKutku

I'm not sure Gaius ever saw Nero as anything more than settling for what he could get, and Nero responded to that level of (lack of) loyalty in kind.

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I kind of don't think this is quite the case. While Nero is certainly second to Cid in terms of engineering ability, Nero is the one I'd trust more then Cid to deliver what he promised when he promised to do it. I can see Nero replacing Cid as a lead engineer, but I can't ever see Cid as a Tribunus.

The very reason Jessie even hires Nero on is because Cid really isn't cut out for running the Ironworks. He's really bad at keeping the business side of the Ironworks going on a day-to-day basis and can't seem to get that the Ironworks has to make a profit off of what he's doing. In fact, what he's doing is usually making sure various technologies don't spread. Which given the type of technologies he comes across is understandable, but still... Cid's seems like the kind of guy who comes up with all the prototypes, but never bothers figuring out how to mass-produce them. That's everyone else's job at the Ironworks. Only recently, it sounds like he hasn't even been making prototypes because he's so busy helping the Scions... I can easily see Jessie hiring Nero because she knows Cid will focus on what Nero is doing once he finds out about it (as opposed to not wanting to work on anything he doesn't feel like working on).

Oh man... I just thought of something hilarious... Jessie and Giaus have worked with both Cid and Nero. I can so see Jessie and Giaus swapping stories about all the difficulties they've had trying to get Cid to work on the engineering projects he's supposed to be working on. And all the ways they managed to get him to do what they wanted.

With Y'shtola with us we will be able to hopefully find out just how much the burn is devoid of aether. Do we know for how long it's been like that? Since depending on how long it's been like that it would have potential to have seen a few calamities and yet still be that dead. Which would bring up a few questions into why or how it hasn't seemed to recover.

I think it's a given that our path into Ilsabard/Garlemald is going to be made fairly clear by the end of 4.5, and that would include meeting some of allies we'll have within the territory. I'd assume the Shadowhunter and Maxima are a given, seeing as their interests very much align with ours (Getting rid of the Ascian corruption and making peace with the Empire respectively).

I think I'm mostly wondering if our inevitable journey is going to be a small-scale covert affair or if the aggression towards the Populares is going to erupt into a full-on civil war with them potentially having a part of the Garlean legions on their side. I'm leaning more towards the latter, since it would be pretty difficult for the WoL to avoid drawing undue attention to themselves.

Does Ysthola only take the Aether from herself or does she also use the aether around her to see? Because if its the latter, she might have a harder time in the burn.

Anyway I really hope that we do have some kind of reaction to Gaius if we meet him. (We do go into this as a rescue mission but its probably not 100% sure if we can save them or even meet them.)

I am also a bit fearful since Yoshida stated (right after the Alphinaud video) that the ending of it made him tear up...dont you dare to do something to my precious Alphi! (Or maybe those were tears of laugther because they are going to troll the fanbase and let Gaius die right in front of us? °L° *is hit by a big book* ..ouch)

As far as I can recall off the top of my head, I don't think the whole Y'shtola thing has really been explored beyond Matoya warning her that to "see" by reaching out and sensing vibrating waves in the aether around you is extraordinarily taxing on the body and spiritual wellspring. We don't even know for sure yet that it's doing permanent damage rather than just imposing on her new burdens and limitations, people just keep acting as though that's true. It might be; it might not be.

It's definitely a brick that's still up in the air, however.

I also wonder what the Burn would do to Y'stola's aether-sight. Perhaps it would be harder to see her surroundings, but a person in the distance (or hiding over a hill) might be like a beacon.

Alternately if the land is so aether-starved, can it be absorbing what little energy people give off, and make it even harder for her to see?

Notably, Y'shtola's current outfit still has her aether-detecting Sharlayan goggles in a holster on her sleeve. It would be an easy handwave to have a line of dialogue or something about how she had it modified to work in places like the Burn, to assist her own aether-sight.

Speaking of Gaius:
https://flic.kr/p/fsQ5r5

Whats this about?

You really need to have watched the 1.0 cutscenes (they are on YouTube) to get what's going on between Cid and Giaus (and Nael). The answer is long and complicated and starts all the way back in Garlemald.

(Very) Long story short... Cid is really tired of people telling him what he should be working on. Mostly because he doesn't want to be designing weapons and that's what Garlemald wanted him to design. So he left Garlemald. Various people have wanted him back working for Garlemald ever since.

There has to be some aether for things to be surviving there as the 4.4 page says there are ferocious beasts that live there. Anyone not Garlean would understand why Cid left after how his father died.

Well I'd say the reunion at hand may bring joy, it may bring fear, but let us embrace whatever it brings.

i see what you did there ;)

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Originally Posted by SannaR

There has to be some aether for things to be surviving there as the 4.4 page says there are ferocious beasts that live there.

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Actually, yeah, the 4.4 page pretty much explicitly says that there's some Aether left that the critters fight over (bolded for emphasis):

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Once a verdant region teeming with flora and fauna, repeated summonings saw it bled of aether and reduced to a barren desert. But even in an unforgiving environment such as this, life has endured. In a fierce struggle for what little aether yet remains, the Burn’s beastly denizens have grown uncommonly savage, and you and your comrades must contend with their dangerous ilk as you scour its white sands.

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There's probably exciting new species of anaetheric bacteria, as well, but those will be less of a threat. :3

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Anyone not Garlean would understand why Cid left after how his father died.

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Honestly, knowing Cid, he probably would have eventually left even if no harm came to his father. He's a goodie-two-shoes to an almost absurd degree, and I think it's inevitable that he'd eventually object to his toys being used to blow people up. It's hard to say for certain, though; his father's death very likely WAS a significant milestone in the development of his current character. Whether it was the sole reason for his departure, one of several reasons, or not a contributing reason at all is up in the air.

I think the WoL will recognize Gaius's voice. We would also recognize his voice if SE used the same voice actor as Praetorium.

So the Burn is FFXIV's version of Borderlands, sounds fun.

Actually, I don't remember a setting like the Burn being used very often in FF games as a whole. The closest I can think of is the area around Midgard/Mako Reactors in FFVII. It's since to see FFXIV using a more original setting for once.

The Burn reminds me of the Great Salt Lake from FF8.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Salt_Lake

It would be interesting if just beyond this lake lays a technologically advanced city (Garlemald). Maybe they'll tie in the Lunatic Pandora as a means to get to the Moon (which was hinted at the end of HW as where the Ascians reside....so Lunar Subterrane 24-man dungeon in 5.0!!!)

Also, they would be remiss to make a zone like the Salt Lake and not include this as a boss:
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/A...l_Fantasy_VIII)

One of the "what if" scenarios I could always see Garlemald pulling off was becoming the FFXIV equivalent of Eshar. That is, instead of expanding their borders once they discovered magiteck, I could see them going the isolationist route and becoming that super advanced country that wanted nothing to do with everyone else's problems because they'd been dealing with every one else's problems for so long.

Actually... I could still see them going that route...

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

One of the "what if" scenarios I could always see Garlemald pulling off was becoming the FFXIV equivalent of Eshar. That is, instead of expanding their borders once they discovered magiteck, I could see them going the isolationist route and becoming that super advanced country that wanted nothing to do with everyone else's problems because they'd been dealing with every one else's problems for so long.

Actually... I could still see them going that route...

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That's Sharlayan, basically.

hmm if we would recognize its gaius from his voice whouldn't maybe also alphi cant remember if there was a scene where he heard him talk?

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Originally Posted by Kusanagi7

hmm if we would recognize its gaius from his voice whouldn't maybe also alphi cant remember if there was a scene where he heard him talk?

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They were both present when we fought Garuda and the Ultima Weapon was first activated. That's also presumably how Gaius recognises Alphinaud as a Scion in the first place, unless the dialogue went a little differently in the Japanese version.

(It seems like a slip on his part to have remarked on Alphinaud being a Scion without any prompting, if he doesn't want to reveal his identity. Maybe he's internally regretting that.)

Well, they could explain Alphinaud not recognising him with the fact that Gaius always wore that helmet that distorts the voice while 'Shadowhunter' has no such thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9hvag2z_QU


Patch trailer is go!


Edit: Looks like the whole gang is here for this patch, and I think Kan-E is getting VA at the very least. Hopefully, all the VAs are back, because that was a big missing element at the end of 4.0, where you just have Aymeric, Merlwyb, etc just nodding at you. I know, I know... cost of VA versus number of lines, but it would have been a nice touch.


And I suspect those lines of Kan-E and Alisaie are red herrings, out of context.... but... if not, well...



"Ahead looms a Calamity." DUN DUN DUNNNNNN!

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Originally Posted by RicaRuin

Well, they could explain Alphinaud not recognising him with the fact that Gaius always wore that helmet that distorts the voice while 'Shadowhunter' has no such thing.

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I don’t think there’s any need to explain that - it’s prettymuch a given that Alphinaud won’t recognise Gaius. However I expect him to piece it together primarily because Gaius recognised him and said that he has some history with the Scions, so surely Alphinaud will be thinking through the (rather short) list of possibilities to work out his identity. The mask is just extra confirmation.

And for a past example of how he handled something like it, there’s the scene early in Stormblood where they’re trying to convince Carvallain to take them to Doma - we don’t get his full approach to the conversation since Tataru takes over and basically outright threatens that she knows his true identity, and she’ll reveal the truth to his father if he won’t help them. Alphinaud is disappointed afterwards because he was going to be more tactful about it. Whether it was still going to amount to blackmail or if he’d try to appeal in other ways, we’ll never know.


(Also, if the patch trailer is up, I’m out of here until I’ve played it. I don’t like watching trailers for things I’m definitely going to watch/play - I’ll take all the mind-blowing as it comes. Have fun with the debate everyone! I’ll catch up later.)

The mention of "expunging light" in the beginning and end of the trailer makes me feel like the Ascians are planning on using what happened on the shard Minfilia went to their advantage (They did mention that they were going to keep an eye on the place), since it's playing into a potential calamity of some sort but I don't think the world's balance of light/dark is bad enough to have a repeat of what happened there just yet.

I feel like they're going to try and bring in a flood of light from that shard for the sake of causing a calamity-level disaster, because the Source is already suffering from the effects of another shard being consumed by darkness, what with voidsent constantly trying cross over into the source from the Void when they're not being summoned voluntarily for questionable reasons.