Samurai?

Hows Samurai doing these days in endgame content? I've seen some videos talking about them not doing quite enough damage but they were 4.2 or older

Samurai's pretty good. Is it part of the speed run meta? No, but it can do all content fine, and with a lot of safety thanks to your gap closer, your jump back, and your third eye>mercy.

With those tools, and the fact your DPS is naturally high, you can fit almost anywhere. Others may groan at the sight of you since it means their DPS won't be as high, but raid-wide DPS will be just fine.

Since the community accepted the skillspeed build as common build instead of a fun build -> Sam also provide 2 builds which are nearly same in overall-dmg but feel differently in play. ^^

sam with all the buffs it can get, can replace a nin in qlq speed kill comp, since wirh all the buffs it can get, the sams dps can really profit from rhe buffs and shoukd reach 800 dps diffence the nin offers wirh TA

and some fights dont only need high dps, but need dos burst during certain phases to push them, and sams can reall burst at times..

omg.... hate writing on my moblie, sorry for the typos on the last post (and can't edit it on this phone atm -_-')

Well while everything is viable, let’s not lie here. Samurai with the best possible comp isn’t replacing Nin. Trick attack is far too powerful and an Equally skilled Nin is better than a Sam.

Samurai has the benefit of having really high damage allowing it to plow through progression for groups who aren’t he best at optimizing cooldowns while learning a fight. The main problem aside form it’s offensive utility is that it also has NO defensive utility, or at least none that the other melee don’t also have. I’ll be honest, it’s playable but far from a “good” spot. People will meme you, you’ll get locked out of pf, and you’ll have a harder time getting into statics. But it’s still playable

sam and nin dos diffrence is about 800, sometimes 700..

TA in an ideal setting, if the group is well played is about 800..

even if TA can be a it betercat times, so can the sam burst in on certain phases or adds be better..

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Originally Posted by Wayfinder3

The main problem aside form it’s offensive utility is that it also has NO defensive utility, or at least none that the other melee don’t also have. I’ll be honest, it’s playable but far from a “good” spot. People will meme you, you’ll get locked out of pf, and you’ll have a harder time getting into statics. But it’s still playable

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I'm having trouble naming other melee jobs with access to a skill with 10% damage reduction on a 15 second timer, which also allows access to a 200 potency heal and threat reduction and with as many mobility options. Samurai's more than playable, it's good. The biggest issue samurai suffers from is the stigma from the majority of its subpar playerbase, but the job itself is good. Far from a good spot? Plleeeeaaasee.

Third eye does NOTHING for the raid, mantra and enmity tools are very valuable in progression

Guess that means DRG is bad since they don't help a raid's "defensive utility." Consider that a job doesn't have to interact with the raid to be good.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

The biggest issue samurai suffers from is the stigma from the majority of its subpar playerbase, but the job itself is good. Far from a good spot? Plleeeeaaasee.

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This is the biggest issue. I spent about an hour kicking gray sams out of 8s farm party a few weeks ago (for context my buddy and I struggled all week so finally made a serious party when the weekend came around, I wouldn't normally just kick people like that but we were on a mission). If you're going to play Sam that's fine, but at least be decent at it lol.

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Guess that means DRG is bad since they don't help a raid's "defensive utility." Consider that a job doesn't have to interact with the raid to be good.

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drg suffers from being subpar in prog too, but it at least has piercing debuff/litany to give it some merit, sam doesn't even have either of those

They are mediocre imo, decent dmg, I'm one of the few players who doesn't cry about not getting a raid buff from them, they are fine to play.

They aren't outstanding by any means but they can wail on a mob I guess ?

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

sam and nin dos diffrence is about 800, sometimes 700..

TA in an ideal setting, if the group is well played is about 800..

even if TA can be a it betercat times, so can the sam burst in on certain phases or adds be better..

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The main thing about Ninja is not TA..... its Smoke screen on (bard/healer) as well it allow the tank to stay on dps stance more often and without the use of emity combo because emity combo is a dps lost

and lets not forget Shadewalker it allow the user to generate 80% of the emity to the tank which provide even more aggro allowing the tank to start its opener without been on tank stance

combine that and you will have a TA+Smokescreen+ Shadewalker and you will have a huge dps difference

Samurai will never replace ninja EVER

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Originally Posted by Hierro

Guess that means DRG is bad since they don't help a raid's "defensive utility." Consider that a job doesn't have to interact with the raid to be good.

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Dragoon has Dragon sight(5% damage to a ally) and battle litany(crit rate buff for party) and Piercing Debuff for bard

I think that enough to beat Samurai

lets be real here I have actually tested this

a 90% perf Samurai will never beat a Dragoon who is doing 50% perf because of its raid dps it provide because they get the same result

however when you have 90% perf dragoon its pretty much out dps a samurai who is 90% perf on raid dps

To actually qualify a Samurai doing its job he/she has to do at lease 85~95% perf to be not a dps lost for the party

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

Dragoon has Dragon sight(5% damage to a ally) and battle litany(crit rate buff for party) and Piercing Debuff for bard

I think that enough to beat Samurai

lets be real here I have actually tested this

a 90% perf Samurai will never beat a Dragoon who is doing 50% perf because of its raid dps it provide because they get the same result

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A 50th percentile DRG is around 5.5k DPS. A 90th percentile SAM is around 6.7k DPS. I'm not sure that Litany, Sight and Disembowel are a 1.2k DPS buff. Even in a very optimized environment, all of DRG's buffs are worth around 820 rDPS (taking one of Bacon Tomato Lettuce clear on O6S as an example). In our somewhat midcore static, our DRG brought about 530 rDPS.

At equal skill levels, yes, a DRG will bring more damage than a SAM (same goes for NIN). But better have a good SAM than a mediocre NIN/DRG.

Imo, SAM is better than NIN in a PUG group where no one's going to really take advantage of TA or Shadewalker. Also it's easier to play at a decent level.

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

The main thing about Ninja is not TA..... its Smoke screen on (bard/healer) as well it allow the tank to stay on dps stance more often and without the use of emity combo because emity combo is a dps lost

and lets not forget Shadewalker it allow the user to generate 80% of the emity to the tank which provide even more aggro allowing the tank to start its opener without been on tank stance

combine that and you will have a TA+Smokescreen+ Shadewalker and you will have a huge dps difference

Samurai will never replace ninja EVER

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true, totally forgot shadewalker/smokebomb that influences the overall dps (usually the tanks dps)

that aside, drg & nin rdps and sam's dps difference are very close

a top sam schould still out dps a nin vy ca. 800 and a drg by 600 about..

even if the sam lacks a bit on the sustained dps numbers, its aoe and burst can be more usfull in certain phases (burn down seperate adds or nails).., making up for the lose..

put a sam in a drg, mch, brd... or nin, mch brd comp, and the sam should get near 900 more than a nin (if the all are doing top)

but sam is still not ideal in all fights, but in some it can use its burst or aoe advantage and make up for the difference.. (in edit 4.4 sam might finally be the missing gap to filling in whats needed for all fights for world speed kills, not only replacing mch)

aside of world fastest speed kills, the diffrence is very small.., but there sam needs to get a possible spot too (just if sam does fully get the spot, sam will be too overplayed: as one of highest dps, also used in speedkill metas and "easy" to play)

Sam can do alright, but its in a similar position to blm: be really damn good at the job, or don't do it.

Other dps jobs have at least some kind of utility to bring to the table, in case they aren't extremely good at damage so they're given a bit of leeway. As a pure dps job that brings nothing unique to the table however, you NEED to be ahead of everyone (and by a good margin), or they will notice you fast.

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Originally Posted by Zerathor

Sam can do alright, but its in a similar position to blm: be really damn good at the job, or don't do it.

Other dps jobs have at least some kind of utility to bring to the table, in case they aren't extremely good at damage so they're given a bit of leeway. As a pure dps job that brings nothing unique to the table however, you NEED to be ahead of everyone (and by a good margin), or they will notice you fast.

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I kinda agree with that. If you're not playing SAM or BLM well enough, you don't have the utility to still help people.
Though very few jobs can bring something to the table while they suck, and I'm mostly thinking about BRD, which brings great utility other than a damage boost (Minne for insane Deployed Adlos, Mana song for healers...). A shitty NIN won't bring personal DPS nor raid DPS because if they can't play the job properly they might be also using TA, Shadewalker and Smokescreen badly.

NIN's DPS + TA is barely above a SAM's personal DPS (SAM is 600-800 DPS above NIN, depending on performance and at equal percentile). What makes NIN so good imo is Smokescreen and Shadewalker. Those two give a lot of leeway to us tanks in very healing heavy fights, so the WHM isn't taking hate.

Hardcore statics favor NIN over SAM for good reasons, because NIN allows for better levels of optimization (raid buffs synchro, less aggro combos on tank side). My concern is about all the statics being adamant about the fact that a NIN is required, where a samurai would be as valuable as a ninja in a "casual/midcore" environment.

I agree that a bad player behind a utility-rich job can be just as bad as a poor selfish-dps. That TA isn't really worth much if it's used all over the place or even not at all.

The main issue with SAM and BLM both, isn't even their literal rdps contribution. SE could buff their pdps so high that it would actually outweigh all the utility other jobs provide, granting them a place in the speedkill meta, but they would still simply be less "fun" to have in your group. It's kind of subjective obviously, but for the majority of players, doing high dps feels good. Big part of enjoyment in raiding is trying to optimize, striving to improve so that you can land those highest percentiles and that simply can't happen if you lack raid buffs other parties have. Of course good players will do well in any composition, but there is always the fact that you could do better if only you had that one buff.

SAM is a powerful job to play on Pick Up Groups. And ironically enough, a decent melee to do progression on since Diversion buffs making NIN's Shade not that godlike anymore. People will still shame on you forever, though.

if its going for world fastest Speedkill meta, than sam is still a bit behind nin and drg..(aside of maybe some sam friendly fights, where sam's burst or/and aoe comes into account)

for "normal" speed kill farming / meta, sam is just as good as nin or drg, dps is very close...hence in most speed kills (but meta there is often abused to get personal buffs for good personal dps fflogs)

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Originally Posted by zuzu-bq

SAM is a powerful job to play on Pick Up Groups. And ironically enough, a decent melee to do progression on since Diversion buffs making NIN's Shade not that godlike anymore. People will still shame on you forever, though.

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Implying most SAM even use diversion.

Well, we got more damage on our base combos and an increase to Enpi plus mild Yaten change. I use Yaten quite a bit to avoid AoEs and then Enpi/dash, but it still has the problem with interrupting combos.