Does Scholar Really Use Magic? - Lore/RP

Does Scholar Really Use Magic? see this translation (japanese):

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Adloquium is 鼓舞激励の策 (kobugekirei no saku) - "encouragement plan"

Succor is 士気高揚の策 (shikikouyou no saku) - "morale lifting plan"

Leeches is 生命浄化法 (seimeijoukahou) - "life-purifying method"

Sacred Soil is 野戦治療の陣 (yasenchiryou no jin) - "battlefield medical treatment circle"

Lustrate is 生命活性法 (seimeikasseihou) - "life-refreshing method"

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So, this abilities do not seem to magic spell, but combat strategy.

in lore, does scholar use magic to heal or create shields?

how should we see (RP side) the use of these skills?

SCH abilities tend towards the more technical and yes, some of the japanese names especially so.

But in the end - even if you gloss over MP and such and being just a game system - SCH abilities are powered by Aetherflow (Not to mention the passive traits connected to the same). And for the most part, the lore team does fairly well at keeping lore explanations in line with how the game systems works.

So I would conclude that, yes, Scholars are most definitely using a branch of magic.

You can additionally conclude as much from the Arcanist questlines, if the above isn't compelling enough of an argument.

Edit: Just for fun, here's some dialogue from the scholar quests:

My archaeological pursuits are but an extension of this practice, for at present I am researching the military tactics of ancient Nym.

'Twould not surprise me if you were unfamiliar with Nym. The civilization flourished some fifteen-odd centuries ago, during the Fifth Astral Era.

The Nymians lived during an age of wonders, when the magical arts flourished. But magicks can be wielded for weal or for woe, and this period of peace eventually gave way to the great War of the Magi.

The nations of that bygone era brought earth-shattering magicks to bear against one another. Yet Nym, with only a handful of mages to support its army of mariners, repulsed would-be invaders time and time again.

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Originally Posted by CrimsonDark

Does Scholar Really Use Magic? see this translation (japanese):



So, this abilities do not seem to magic spell, but combat strategy.

in lore, does scholar use magic to heal or create shields?

how should we see (RP side) the use of these skills?

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They use magic. ALL classes and jobs use aether (magic) in some form for at least some of their abilities. (Possible exception being the DoL classes.)

As you probably already know, SCH 'magicks' are of Nymian origin. Magic in this game is more of a broad tree that branches into several schools with Conjurer and Thaumaturgy being the most recognized in Eorzea. Nymian tactics, Astromancy, and Geomancy can also be considered branches that stem from this tree. A 'magic spell' is simply the calling forth of energies from this particular source of aether to produce this arcanic effect.

What is interesting is that the Nymian arts were developed with a tactical mindset, which is why only a few Nymian mages could ward off a battalion of troops giving validity to brain > brawn. The lore is so well designed in comparison to how the SCH job plays. A optimal SCH plays the job proactively, and is an extremely strong addition to any group, increasing chance of success to very high numbers.

While the names of the scholar abilities suggest it’s more of a doctor (physick > physician, leeches > medieval physicians used leeches to drain puss from plague patients, succor > to provide aid) I think it is still using magic to provide these effects, the same way an arcanist is using magic to inflict disease. Scholar is kind of the flip side of the coin of arcanist (more so than summoner).

Scholar Magic is a form of Nymian Arcanima. Arcanima is the most prevalent form of magic among Sharlyans who are arguably the most magically adept people in Hydaelyn. So.... Yeah I'd say their pretty much magi. That and there's the Faerie who is literally a familiar manifested from your own aether.

That being said MistakeNot is indeed correct that all classes manipulate Aether in some way or another. The only race that cannot manipulate Aether are the Garleans. This is why they use Magitech and wear magic inhibiting armor. There are mentions of Garleans who are born with the ability to use magic but his is EXTREMELY rare.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

They use magic. ALL classes and jobs use aether (magic) in some form for at least some of their abilities. (Possible exception being the DoL classes.)

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Just because aether is used, doesn't mean that magic is used. My opinion is that magic is the channeling of aether through the body, which you are right, many more jobs than mages do this. PLD, DRK, WAR, NIN, DRG, and MNK all do this in various different forms, but MCH does not. MCH has an aetherotransformer on their belt, which uses your aether to power the weapon in the same way that garleans use ceruleum. MCH is a very artificial job, using technology over magic, and I would argue that they are where the line is drawn between aether and magic.

SCH totally channels aether through their bodies though, the nymian magic is just written as battle tactics.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Just because aether is used, doesn't mean that magic is used. My opinion is that magic is the channeling of aether through the body, which you are right, many more jobs than mages do this. PLD, DRK, WAR, NIN, DRG, and MNK all do this in various different forms, but MCH does not. MCH has an aetherotransformer on their belt, which uses your aether to power the weapon in the same way that garleans use ceruleum. MCH is a very artificial job, using technology over magic, and I would argue that they are where the line is drawn between aether and magic.

SCH totally channels aether through their bodies though, the nymian magic is just written as battle tactics.

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Do you... really not see the contradictions in your own post?

Or perhaps it's better to ask... what is your definition of "magic"?

To most people, Aether = Magic. Saying Garleans cannot use aether (like in the post above yours) is equivalent to saying Garleans cannot use magic (and not strictly true if you include tool use). And using Aether through a tool is still using Aether (AKA magic).

Various mage classes has different 'sources' and ways of channeling aether but in the end they all use it, so saying "oh but this class's particular tool is a bit different" seems relatively meaningless and makes an unconvincing argument.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Various mage classes has different 'sources' and ways of channeling aether but in the end they all use it, so saying "oh but this class's particular tool is a bit different" seems relatively meaningless and makes an unconvincing argument.

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Thats my point though, does it or doesn't it matter? Because while you could well be right in that aether = magic, the use of an external tool is far more akin to garlean tech than actual magic. In the sightseeing log, we find the following passage: "To power their legions of war machina, the Garleans require a steady supply of the aether-based fuel known as ceruleum." What this tells us is that ceruleum is aether based, making magitek technology aetheric fueled. That gives us a huge link towards MCH, which also uses technology that is aetheric fueled.

My argument therefor is that MCH uses magitek, not magic. Garleans use magitek, not magic. Other jobs use magick because the aether is the source of the abilities, not just the fuel (and it is just fuel, the lorebook describes the process as "converting mana into lightning-aspected energy (or as well call it in the real world - electricity) to power the invention"). You could argue that it is semantics, but I think there is an important distinction.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Thats my point though, does it or doesn't it matter? Because while you could well be right in that aether = magic, the use of an external tool is far more akin to garlean tech than actual magic. In the sightseeing log, we find the following passage: "To power their legions of war machina, the Garleans require a steady supply of the aether-based fuel known as ceruleum." What this tells us is that ceruleum is aether based, making magitek technology aetheric fueled. That gives us a huge link towards MCH, which also uses technology that is aetheric fueled.

My argument therefor is that MCH uses magitek, not magic. Garleans use magitek, not magic. Other jobs use magick because the aether is the source of the abilities, not just the fuel. You could argue that it is semantics, but I think there is an important distinction.

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It's an interesting distinction, yes, especially for lore discussions. But when it comes down to "does this class use aether", I don't think there is a distinction there. The answer is still yes.

There are other distinctions you can draw. For example, WHM/BLM draw on aether from their surroundings*, while RDM uses the caster's internal aether as a power source. A distinct difference, but in the end, using abilities fueled by aether/magic. So now magitek... similar deal. It's a tool/external source that grants it, but the abilities are ultimately still aether-driven.

Of course, I'd still peg SCH as one of the more traditional mages, and there's multiple in-game references to them as mages/users of nymnian magics, etc. I wouldn't go so far as to call melees or mch or similar "mages". But if a given ability uses 'aether' (vs pure martial skill/discipline/etc), I think to most, that would be magic. Regardless of the source.

*(Because I know someone will nitpick: Yes, it is indicated in questlines that CNJ/THM can self-power their abilities somewhat, but that this may not exactly lead to a long and healthy life.)

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tl;dr: Unless we have definitions that specifically separate 'magic' and 'aether', distinctions in sources of aether are interesting to discuss in terms of lore... but in the end, it still all seems like "magic".

Think of SCH being similar to Alchemists from Full Metal Alchemists. They draw/create arcane geoemetric patterns using aether o their book to weave effects into existence. So they turn to a page on their grimoire of the Adloquiem spell and swipe their hands over it, empowering it with their aether, then the spell "activates", healing and shielding the players.

It's magic but rather than the effect being some primordial energy, it's more complex. It uses aether like magic, but the command is "executed" according to the geoemetric patterns/blueprints (which is like programming code), which the aether follow. For plain mages, their subconscious controls the flow of the aether to carry out the effects. Think of White Mage and Black Mage as musicians. They play instruments to make beautiful music. Scholar also makes music, but they use a computer. The code/programs/scripts they use tells electricity how to produce sound. Both the mages and the scholar use "electricity", the mages use their body's own bioelectricity and the scholar uses an external device powered by electricity. The outcomes are similar but the tool is different.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

But if a given ability uses 'aether' (vs pure martial skill/discipline/etc), I think to most, that would be magic. Regardless of the source.

tl;dr: Unless we have definitions that specifically separate 'magic' and 'aether', distinctions in sources of aether are interesting to discuss in terms of lore... but in the end, it still all seems like "magic".

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That is pretty much my thought process on it. If the ability consumes MP, it's of a magical property. Semantics can intertwine aether and magic, but all we need to do is look to the lore where it specifically states that Garleans cannot use magic. This tells us the lore makes the two terms separate. Magic is the art of channeling aether through various means for a myriad of purposes. Eorzens use music, nature, written text, jutsu, and even the abyss to harness and wield the aether. Garleans are incapable of any of this. In short, if you could play a Garlean in FFXIV, you wouldn't have an MP gauge of any kind.

We also know that not all magic users are mages - another distinction. Mage in this game is synonymous with caster, hence how we got terms like Bow Mage and Gun Mage in earlier days. BRD, DRK, and PLD are clear magic users, but none of them are mages. Even though some of their abilities are classified as 'spells', we can't call any those melee jobs true mages.

In short; Eorzeans are magical badasses, and Garleans are just jelly. :p

Incidentally, came across this about MCH: "Next, let's talk about that contraption at yer waist. Now, I don't rightly understand it, but the boss tells me it draws on the aether in yer body an' turns it into the spark what'll feed some new devices 'e's workin' on."

Makes MCH seem even more like a mage really - it's not even something like ceruleum-fueled, it's just the lunchbox taking on the role of staff/cane/wand/medium/etc.

Thanks all for the answers to my question.btw, I loved the analogy with Full Metal Alchemist transmutation. xD

about this MCH discussion, i think that is a interesting point. mch uses its own source of magic (ether) via aetherotransformer, but is something automatic, that does not need the ether manipulation. but, I believe that we must know how to manipulate ether to be a mage.

if we compare with allagan, there really are not major differences, because they created "automatic grimoires" with technology. some did not know how to manipulate ether like a allagan summoner and created these tools but they were engineer / researchers who created and controlled (although they did many weapon 100% automatic)