House Trading/Selling

First time poster here :) Sharing some thoughts on the state of housing from my perspective on Zalera, which is one of the lower population servers.

We have a ton of small and a few medium houses available on Zalera and, while there are many neighborhoods that are full (e.g. lower # Shirogane wards), there are also some that are nearly completely vacant with the exception of the 3 larges in the ward (e.g. Goblet).

There's obviously a much higher demand for mansions as those tend to fill up first, but people also hang on to them to sell the plot for 1-3x the amount that they bought the plot for in the first place. I understand this practice isn't encouraged, but nobody I know is going to let their large plot auto-demo without getting substantial compensation, just due to the demand.

It would be nice if there was a way to sell your house directly or trade houses with another player (in the same way you would other items - just keep the housing permit/deed around as a physical token notating ownership) to encourage giving folks the flexibility to move into their dream plot without the risk of getting scammed, or not being able to get into the plot at all because someone is asking for unreasonable amounts of gil to displace themselves.

The current system isn't working well, but we haven't gotten much traction on asking for things to be different, and the current stance seems to be "don't buy plots from other players". Given the above, do others have feedback/thoughts we could pass along to make this a better experience for the player base overall? I'd like to hear from those on more populated servers as what works on Zalera may not work on Levi or Balmung.

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Originally Posted by SiskaArisato

or not being able to get into the plot at all because someone is asking for unreasonable amounts of gil to displace themselves.

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The problem is, if there's a system to trade in game that limits the cost and lets you choose who to trade the plot to, that will just enable flippers to request more from a trade outside the system. Personally I think they need to lock the system down further by bringing back the temporary rules as a permanent base and then add on to them so people can't transfer fcs or sell relocations.

Can you elaborate on the temporary rules? I've been on XIV for a year, so I don't have all the context some veterans do.

Maybe auction houses and all the gil beyond the original cost of the house can only go to the housing vendor or something? So it doesn't benefit the seller?

Not sure what other main proposals are that have been thrown out, but we as a community can think of something that would help, I'd wager.

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Originally Posted by SiskaArisato

Can you elaborate on the temporary rules?

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Basically once a plot is emptied, either through auto-demo or voluntary relinquishment, it doesn't immediately go back up for sale. There is a random, unmarked wait period, ranging from (I think) 30 minutes to 24 hours before the house can be purchased by anyone. So if you "buy" a plot off someone, you have to camp the placard for up to 24 hours in order to get it. That is, of course, assuming no one else comes up and has the blind luck to click it faster than the intended buyer and get it instead.

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Originally Posted by SiskaArisato

Maybe auction houses and all the gil beyond the original cost of the house can only go to the housing vendor or something? So it doesn't benefit the seller?

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Sellers would still try to manipulate the system, in this case by doing something like agreeing to put the house up for auction at a specific, low-pop time. For a price of course. And I dislike the idea of an auction system for housing; with what we have in place now everyone has an equal chance of getting a house as long as they have the minimum gil. You just gotta get lucky. An auction system would give more of an advantage to the super-rich.

If anything, I think the best way to get some of your investment back would be to allow players to sell plots back to the server. Even at a loss, it would be nice if you could get a portion of your gil back without having to wait the 45 days.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

Basically once a plot is emptied, either through auto-demo or voluntary relinquishment, it doesn't immediately go back up for sale. There is a random, unmarked wait period, ranging from (I think) 30 minutes to 24 hours before the house can be purchased by anyone. So if you "buy" a plot off someone, you have to camp the placard for up to 24 hours in order to get it. That is, of course, assuming no one else comes up and has the blind luck to click it faster than the intended buyer and get it instead.

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Isn't that still in effect? It sounded like DustyTome was referencing some other temporary rule, but I could be misinterpreting.

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Originally Posted by SiskaArisato

Isn't that still in effect? It sounded like DustyTome was referencing some other temporary rule, but I could be misinterpreting.

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As far as I know it is. She might also have been referencing the rule limiting the number of FCs with housing that you can be leader of. But I was under the impression that one was still rolling too.

During the temporary phase you physically could not transfer fc's... after the first two weeks that ban was lifted.

Some use that to argue that rule was intended to only be temporary not permanent... I however just get annoyed because there are empty houses aplenty and folks aren't buying them on my server not because they can't afford to... they just don't like where they actually are.

I think another part to this is that we haven't seen direct statements indicating that trading housing plots is against the ToS. Some situations are ok, while others are not.

If infrastructure went in to support the trading SE wants players to be able to do, they could issue a statement regarding what isn't allowed and then enforce it.

Is that unrealistic? Seems like this needs to be backed by both feature and policy.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

As far as I know it is. She might also have been referencing the rule limiting the number of FCs with housing that you can be leader of. But I was under the impression that one was still rolling too.

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Funny how you weighted on the subject before but you are unaware of what's been going on :)

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Originally Posted by SiskaArisato

Isn't that still in effect? It sounded like DustyTome was referencing some other temporary rule, but I could be misinterpreting.

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I believe DustyTome was referring to the rule where you could not own two FC houses on the same account and world. If one of your characters was a member of a FC that owned a house, you could not purchase a FC house on another character on the same server. They have since lifted that restriction.

As far as I'm aware, the other restrictions are still in place.

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Originally Posted by SiskaArisato

I think another part to this is that we haven't seen direct statements indicating that trading housing plots is against the ToS.

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*groan* Not this again, ugh.
This old argument has been beaten to death so many times over, I'm not even going to get into it again. I'll just leave this here and be done with it-
Thread: House flipping is 100% confirmed against ToS, send vegetable naysayers to this thread

Everything that can possibly be on both sides of the subject has already been said (over and over) in this and so many other threads.

Absolutely not player control over in way to sell houses, would be opposed that very much, mostly because it would not end well when smalls on more populated servers would end going for like 10m+ or the likes.

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Originally Posted by Rymm

*groan* Not this again, ugh.
This old argument has been beaten to death so many times over, I'm not even going to get into it again. I'll just leave this here and be done with it-
Thread: House flipping is 100% confirmed against ToS, send vegetable naysayers to this thread

Everything that can possibly be on both sides of the subject has already been said (over and over) in this and so many other threads.

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This is from some random player misinterpreting the ToS. Please don't spin this as gospel. I opened a ticket with a GM to ask about this earlier in the week and they refused to say house selling or trading was against ToS.

Meaning "don't go flipping houses for a huge profit". That is the unacceptable use. Trying to trade out of your plot for what you bought it for so you can get something different? That is not covered in that thread.

We take one example that covers an extreme and apply it to all the gray area. This does nobody any good.

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Originally Posted by SiskaArisato

This is from some random player misinterpreting the ToS.

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Yeah, still not being drawn into this old argument. The only thing I'll point out is she sources everything she claims, so I don't know how you can accuse her of misinterpreting anything.

But really, there is no effective argument against willful ignorance, so I'm walking away. Your mind won't change, my mind won't change; I've seen how this show ends too many times already.

Ahhh housing salt. The best kind.

It really is.

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

Ahhh housing salt. The best kind.

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Does housing salt go good on housing steak? :D

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

Does housing salt go good on housing steak? :D

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Yes! Very tasty.

The way it stands new buyers are mostly screwed unless there's plots appearing in lands people aren't the least bit interested in. If a house appears in Shirogane it will be snapped up very fast by someone who is relocating since housing in Shirogane is in seriously high demand. The market for buying houses from other players has been slashed since you'd need multiple accounts to claim multiple plots and new house buyers won't be able to claim the land right away and wouldn't want to take the risk of someone else claiming it first, but the market still exists for players who want to relocate since they can bypass the waiting period despite it being against the ToS because players are desperate. SE kinda brought this on themselves because A) they limited the number of houses, B) they put in houses of different sizes and made the bigger ones have more benefits than smaller houses, and C) they made houses a necessity for players and companies who want to be able to build huge housing projects that bring in lots of gil, grade 3 buffs, or need to crossbreed plants for crafts and chocobo leveling.

Meanwhile... I want to move server and get rid of my large but now I gotta wait 1.5 month :/

So I just had the feeling I've never had before with this game. The feeling that it just wasted my time. I am on Leviathan and can't really transfer as it would require all my friends to do the same as well. But I wanted to buy a small lot for my FC to use.

I found a plot open and found that I couldn't buy it because of a random timer...(first time buying a house.) Not a problem. Proceeded to wait for 8 hours on my day off at the placard, clicking on the thing every two minutes. Saw many people come and go. At 1:30 in the morning....an FC just runs up and transfers to the plot. Well, that sucked. But the person tells me the plot that opened up. So I run to the Mist, and sure enough...an open spot. Waited another ten hours at that placard. At hour 9, about 6 others show up and start clicking...I lose out on a random click-off. 18 hours of trying to get nothing. First time I ever felt like a game actively punished me for dedication. Thanks SE.

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Originally Posted by Xandurin

So I just had the feeling I've never had before with this game. The feeling that it just wasted my time. I am on Leviathan and can't really transfer as it would require all my friends to do the same as well. But I wanted to buy a small lot for my FC to use.

I found a plot open and found that I couldn't buy it because of a random timer...(first time buying a house.) Not a problem. Proceeded to wait for 8 hours on my day off at the placard, clicking on the thing every two minutes. Saw many people come and go. At 1:30 in the morning....an FC just runs up and transfers to the plot. Well, that sucked. But the person tells me the plot that opened up. So I run to the Mist, and sure enough...an open spot. Waited another ten hours at that placard. At hour 9, about 6 others show up and start clicking...I lose out on a random click-off. 18 hours of trying to get nothing. First time I ever felt like a game actively punished me for dedication. Thanks SE.

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I'm sorry you couldn't get your house but would you prefer the old system where hoarder buy all available plots, possible with claim bots and sell them outside of the game for 10-100x the worth?

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

I'm sorry you couldn't get your house but would you prefer the old system where hoarder buy all available plots, possible with claim bots and sell them outside of the game for 10-100x the worth?

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You obviously don't value your free time huh?

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Originally Posted by NotOliverB

You obviously don't value your free time huh?

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Wrong person quote?

Nope. ((((

At least with the old system people who didn't already own houses had a chance at getting one. An FC could raise the money and almost guaranteed would find a lot someone was selling in game. Now, no matter how much money you have, or how much you want the lot, it comes down to the luck of no other existing home owner wanting the free lot that you had to wait to be available in the first place, and then you have to win a random clicking battle. Such a better system...

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Originally Posted by Xandurin

At least with the old system people who didn't already own houses had a chance at getting one. An FC could raise the money and almost guaranteed would find a lot someone was selling in game. Now, no matter how much money you have, or how much you want the lot, it comes down to the luck of no other existing home owner wanting the free lot that you had to wait to be available in the first place, and then you have to win a random clicking battle. Such a better system...

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What are you saying? You had a chance before? Some Shirogane houses were advertised for 500 million gil. The only way for most players and fcs to get that sort of money was from buying gil, which meant strongly putting their accounts at risk. For a huge amount of people even only 20 times the price of the house was crazy unrealistic for them to pay. The old system literally fed RMT, and RMT has bad effects on server economy.

I'm not saying I agree with the clicking battle, I think it's awful honestly. But at least now players are paying the actual price of the house, and not 10 to a 100 times the price depending on the server and the plot. The old system was NOT better. Players were constantly exploited because of it.

The current system isn't perfect but the worst that could happen is to go back to how it was.

I think the system we have right now is fine
but need a better way of buying and selling houses if its putting deeds on MB or Auction house just for housing

But no matter what they do there will always be a shortage on Large plots for most cases

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Originally Posted by NotOliverB

Nope. ((((

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No clue what you mean then if I ask someone in this thread if they prefer this or old system. I had no issue with either.

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

No clue what you mean then if I ask someone in this thread if they prefer this or old system. I had no issue with either.

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I'll make a breakdown for you:

Pre 4.1

Basic requirement: Rank 6 FC / lvl 50 player with Second Lieutenant
New buyers can purchase a plot on sight.
No limit of FC houses per account.
No limit of personal houses per account.
Players can trade FC houses.
Players can sell personal plots.

Post 4.1
Basic requirement: Rank 6 FC / lvl 50 player with Second Lieutenant
New buyers cannot purchase a plot on sight
No limit of FC houses per account.
1 personal house per account.
Players can trade FC houses.
Players can sell personal plots through relocation.

I underlined the only things that have changed with this new system.

The second change is essentially worthless as it is easier to acquire a rank 6 FC than leveling to 50, saves you a jump potion I guess.

The first one is directly punishing new buyers because they are forced to camp a specific plot for hours, if not days. All this time wasted when they could have made something more productive; such as acquiring gil through gathering/crafting/doing maps/etc.

Now let's got back to what you've said:

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Originally Posted by Luna-M

I'm sorry you couldn't get your house but would you prefer the old system where hoarder buy all available plots, possible with claim bots and sell them outside of the game for 10-100x the worth?

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First of, there's no such thing as hoarders who purchase all available plots. Even when housing came out, there were still plenty of plots available. Their might be notable resellers on specific servers, but few people actually maintain more than 30 plots. In the grand scheme of things, it's a drop in the sea.

Second, "claim bots" did not exist pre 4.1. It is only now that you can see players with their status set to busy using a mouse/keyboard macro to spam the placard of an empty plot.

Third, there's never been a single house sold for 100x times it's worth. Do the math, you'll see why your statement is ludicrous.

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Originally Posted by NotOliverB

I'll make a breakdown for you:

Pre 4.1

Basic requirement: Rank 6 FC / lvl 50 player with Second Lieutenant
New buyers can purchase a plot on sight.
No limit of FC houses per account.
No limit of personal houses per account.
Players can trade FC houses.
Players can sell personal plots.

Post 4.1
Basic requirement: Rank 6 FC / lvl 50 player with Second Lieutenant
New buyers cannot purchase a plot on sight
No limit of FC houses per account.
1 personal house per account.
Players can trade FC houses.
Players can sell personal plots through relocation.

I underlined the only things that have changed with this new system.

The second change is essentially worthless as it is easier to acquire a rank 6 FC than leveling to 50, saves you a jump potion I guess.

The first one is directly punishing new buyers because they are forced to camp a specific plot for hours, if not days. All this time wasted when they could have made something more productive; such as acquiring gil through gathering/crafting/doing maps/etc.

Now let's got back to what you've said:



First of, there's no such thing as hoarders who purchase all available plots. Even when housing came out, there were still plenty of plots available. Their might be notable resellers on specific servers, but few people actually maintain more than 30 plots. In the grand scheme of things, it's a drop in the sea.

Second, "claim bots" did not exist pre 4.1. It is only now that you can see players with their status set to busy using a mouse/keyboard macro to spam the placard of an empty plot.

Third, there's never been a single house sold for 100x times it's worth. Do the math, you'll see why your statement is ludicrous.

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I would take anything this guy says with extreme skepticism. He's probably being disingenuous, he is a major part of the problem. MEW owns at least half a ward on Gilgamesh, all with owning players named after the plots location. Something is not right about whatever he is doing.

I wish when property becomes available it would go into a lottery system. Players would apply for a chance and then go mind their business/have fun in the game until it's time for the drawing. If they win, they can purchase the land. If they lose, they go about your business until another plot becomes available and their try your luck again.

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Originally Posted by Bahati

I wish when property becomes available it would go into a lottery system. Players would apply for a chance and then go mind their business/have fun in the game until it's time for the drawing. If they win, they can purchase the land. If they lose, they go about your business until another plot becomes available and their try your luck again.

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So you want to replace one type of lottery with another?

Spam clicking a placard is also lottery if you're competing with other players. With your lottery idea you would actually have more competition because participation would be near zero effort. Players would have nothing to lose by participating so even those who are pretty indifferent about having a house would enter.

I understand you don't want to spam click a placard. I hate that this is a thing. But your idea would not be a fix at all. It would be replacing one rng system with another.

Honestly instanced housing is the way to go to truly solve the housing issues for every server with equal success. The changes since 4.2 and HW have helped most servers a great deal but large hubs like Balmung have long outgrown the wards. I hope SE present a legitimate solution in the next expansion.

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Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom

I would take anything this guy says with extreme skepticism. He's probably being disingenuous, he is a major part of the problem. MEW owns at least half a ward on Gilgamesh, all with owning players named after the plots location. Something is not right about whatever he is doing.

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Ah yes, I'm obviously the person preventing every new home buyers to acquire a plot by enforcing some hidden timer. :rolleyes:

How evil...