Hey guys, returning player here. I played a machinist in HW because I like the support playstyle and i preferred the aesthetic over the bards. Looking at the changes to both classes I'm wondering if machinist can really be called a support class compared to how the bard works now as I barely see any real support actions on the machinist now. Is machinist just a regular dps now?
Machinist vs Bard
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08-17-2018, 03:21 AMAebelMachinist vs Bard
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08-17-2018, 03:52 AMZerathorIt still has all the ranged role skill options shared with brd, like refresh, and palisade. For unique utility they have dismantle, which is pretty nice. Brd however is much much more of a support type job, and mch deals more personal damage (brd makes the group do more damage than the gap though )Quote:
Originally Posted by Aebel
They're still in an OK spot though if you like playing it. -
08-18-2018, 01:28 AMVelhartIf you planned on joining a Savage raid group, they usually prefer BRD due to it having more support functions. However a good MCH is usually welcomed also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aebel
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08-18-2018, 08:13 PMAzerhan
Machinist are really good in dps and in utility, however, it's too hard to play now.
There is only a few MCH in the game, and there is even less good MCH. Because it's hard to play, and you'll need a DRG with you to be relevant in dps. Also, any death is really punishing.
Right now, if you want to play Support, BRD is perfect for that. NIN too can be a good idea, but is a different way. -
08-19-2018, 04:50 PMGrimoire-M
Whether you want BRD or MCH for utility depends on whether Dismantle would see more use than Troubadour. Minne's one of those "nice but eh" utility effects. Foes and Crit are great, especially if you're rocking sustained selfish dps classes like SAM/BLM in your group, but Hypercharge's spikes combined with TA are very notable if you're running with SMN/NIN/DRG, since at that point three of your DPS are on the 60s timers and DRG's rotation lines up well enough with it.
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08-20-2018, 12:49 AMmommozz
Not going into fine details but after playing both classes for a fair bit I can tell you that BRD's support is more of a Swiss Army Knife kind of support. It has a lot of uses but it's weaker compared to the actual tool. But the amount of types of support that BRD gives makes up for it's strength(support wise). Basically, very handy to have in a party(just like it's handy to have a Swiss Army Knife at all times irl).
MCH support is more focused. Meaning just by using it's support skill, you make a direct tangible effect i.e. boost party bamage by a fair amount, or mitigating damage by 10%. Contrary to BRD, you don't feel the effects of the support as much with a BRD, but it's still there and it adds up over the course of the fight. -
08-21-2018, 09:26 PMStraynge
After having played both for a little while I would have to say I vastly prefer my bard but I'm very biased towards the Bard. It was my first class I've ever played and still my favorite. I don't think Machinist is actually too far behind the Bard as far as damage goes but Bard just feels like it has more utility. That utility is a bit spotty though with some songs/abilities being much better than others. Bard is also in my opinion the easiest class to play. You literally just shoot everything in the face. Keep your songs up, keep your dots up...done. Okay, it's probably a little more than that but basically that's it. One thing I absolutely cannot stand doing on the Machinist is having to maintain heat/overheat. Machinist is several moments of pure boredom/frustration followed by nice crits then rinse and repeat. I hate always having to wait on those fleeting few seconds. It just feels too clunky for me. I'd rather just concentrate on killing a boss than constantly having to keep my sight on my heat gauge. Still the Machinist is not bad and we could always use more good machinists out there (of which I am not lol) so take what I say with a grain of salt. I consider myself a decent Bard (I've seen better) but I'm not that great with the Mch. I just don't care for it as much. Mainly though just play what YOU enjoy. What I like may not fit with what you enjoy. Have fun and bring plenty of ammo/arrows.
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08-21-2018, 11:26 PMLubu_Mykono
Machinist is also the only class affected by ping. There are different rotations regarding your connection.
MCH dismantle and the overcharge buff/debuff are under-rated though. They are nice to have in casual content if you play them properly with the cross class abilities but too many people simply focus on the lethargic DPS rotation. -
08-22-2018, 12:04 AMZerathorAlso this. If you want to be a good mch, I believe you need <80ms to do the proper wildfire thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lubu_Mykono
Also, there are other jobs with different rotations regarding ping. It's just by far the most noticeable on mch. There's a few different ninja variations only super low ping can do, and smn has some slight variations. -
08-23-2018, 08:30 AMGrimoire-M
MCH is also the only class penalized for having too much skill speed. Which players will have felt this patch because of the Tome Weapon/Chest having it as their main substats. The melee dps and BRD don't really want it, but they're not hurt by it in the same way. RDM and SMN have some minor breakpoints with it, but like BLM they only really want more of it for some QoL based on ping.
The only real option to deal with it is to delay Barrel Stabilizer if you want to retain fluidity, because Cooldown takes too much heat off your bar and Flamethrower takes too long. It's something you have to test when you equip new gear, just to be safe. -
10-19-2018, 07:24 PMMatthew_Fox
just play bard 4head mch is dead
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10-19-2018, 07:33 PMKitfox
BRD is objectively better than MCH in majority of the content in the game. They provide more raid dps and support for the party, not to mention being more flexible with positioning, latency and gear choices. You also get attention from the devs.
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10-20-2018, 09:25 AMSomethingCoolFeelsBadManQuote:
Originally Posted by Kitfox
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10-23-2018, 12:33 AMBourne_EndeavorNinjas want to have a word with you about this statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grimoire-M
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10-23-2018, 03:45 AMSsmiley_Bjakkzz
Machinist vs Bard need a death match battle on youtube!
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10-23-2018, 10:44 PMValenceDid you mean a formal execution?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ssmiley_Bjakkzz
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10-23-2018, 11:37 PMwhiskeybravo
When the top MCH contributors tell you to roll BRD, you know something is f'd up.
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11-09-2018, 09:12 AMKitfox
When will SE realize that making a job mechanic scale with gear stats is a bad idea? BRDs are now doing MCH level dps with much better utility, usability and raid dps buffs. Please nerf BRD crit scaling and please buff MCH with quality-of-life features so it's not such a headache to play.
https://i.imgur.com/YxcxSZV.jpg -
11-09-2018, 03:01 PMNemekh
Brd has been contributing too much for the longest time. The sad fact is the representation of the uploads with total logs for mch vs brd isn't even representative of how mch is played even less by the non-raiding player base. Rdm and Brd are by far the most represented dps jobs.
You have the clunkfest of machinist not even coming close a bard's qol and total package. Quite the Performance in balance. -
11-10-2018, 04:09 AMIlanUhm how about just buffing the MCH? Its stupid to always nerf here and nerf there instead of getting a propper balance with buffing the classes who need it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitfox
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11-10-2018, 04:15 AMKitfoxBRD is the balance breaker so it makes sense to nerf them. If they buff MCH, we get back to the double ranged meta and casters will get ignored. SE rarely nerfs anything but there's absolutely nothing with nerfs, if they improve game balance. Otherwise they not only have to buff MCH but every other job as well, especially casters, to bring everyone in line with BRDs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilan
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11-10-2018, 09:37 AMlulunami
The only thing that MCH is better than BRD at is large pulls of dungeon trash mobs since BRD's AoE is locked behind Mage's Ballad -- Rain of Death procs.
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11-10-2018, 11:56 PMHyperiusUltimaEven then, let’s not forget their AoE skill is a tad weaker. A BRD can Quick Nock all day but at least MCH can use their Bishop.Quote:
Originally Posted by lulunami
Either way, BRD has gotten out of hand this expansion with Crit Scaling and the Damage it does. There are even logs that prove that BRD is superior to MCH in all aspects. -
11-11-2018, 09:19 AMNemekh
It's not even just about the personal damage. Hypercharge doesn't come remotely close to Foe, BV and Crit up. This is before you look at Refresh vs alternatives from non-Range jobs.