Red Mage DoT Suggestion

So, there's a good bit of stuff I'd like to see added in 5.0; but maybe this could be seen in between patches to enhance DSP a bit:

Verholy and Verflare, Additional Effect of DoTs.

[Verholy]:

Dia: Deals Holy Damage over Time with a potency of 40

• Duration: 21s
• Additional Effect: Black Manameter increases by 1 point per tick

[Verflare]:

Burn: Deals Fire Damage over Time with e potency of 40

• Duration: 21s
• Additional Effect: White Manameter increases by 1 point per tick

[So clarifying, since after finishing a Combo that side of the Mana Gauge gets 21 Points, the DoT would increase the Opposite Side's Mana]

*Not changing what Embolden does, just adding this if the enemy has both DoTs.

Embolden: If Enemy is tagged with Burn and Dia, Potency of effects are doubled, and duration of effects are increased to 20s.

• Additional Effect:
• -10% Defense Down
• -10% Attack Down

Defense Down and Attack Down reduce by 2% per second until the duration of Embolden is done.

[Other Thoughts]:

*I was going to suggest during Embolden that the Manameter increases to [2 Points] Per second, while this effect is on; but that might be too OP, << give me some feedback on this, please?

*That's an additional 40 Points during the duration of the effect. That could be used for a AoE Moulinet, or just a "Manafication" to get 80/80 and do another Sword Combo.

Again, it's adding to the Overall DPS, if timed correctly.


*During a regular Verholy / Verflare Rotation: that would be an additional [20 Points]; for both sides. Of course, the Tick would continue if the Red Mage continues to Cycle between them; but the goal would be to have both DoTs on the enemy.

[Closing Thoughts]:

So purpose behind this? To try to incorporate both Verholy and Verflare. At times I just ever use Verflare, but alternating between both to keep the DoT on would be a fun little change.

What do you think? Thanks for replies ahead of time =D

Pat out.

I for one would be "ok" with dots to a certain point but can also see how it does not fit with the jobs identity, dots belongs moreso to smn and i am sure the community (this forum anyhow) would be very vocal.
I would suggest some status effects but that would fall too much into time mage. My thoughts are more mellee stuff, not sure what to suggest however

I do really hope next expansion finally sees changes to Red Mage, as it stands Stormblood has shown that they do not give the job the care like that of all other jobs

This is actually a well thought idea. Not talking about balance though, because I'm shit with that ;D

What I think your proposal could achieve is to force RDM to switch between Verholy and Veflare. Each one puts a long lasting dots, meaning that you would prefer to not clip those. That would give RDM a bit of work to do with their mana gauge, more than "just stay in the same range for black and white mana" ;D

And for Maero : BLM has thunder, which is a dot and is really important in their gameplay. SMN don't whine because of that. Because if you check, a lot of classes have DoT, and Bard's DoTs are more central to their deeps that SMN ones.

I have been a blm main for 4 years so am aware of that lol.
I am just thinking in terms of Red Mage's identity and if they would actually change it.
I am not 100% opposed to OP's ideas it would bring some change to the job

As far as perhaps changing the RDM's identity, it's hard to interpret what it would do really; what Identity does the RDM currently though, may I ask? XD

Incorporating a mild DoT after the initial Verflare / Verholy, and adding that new balancing where the RDM will have to carefully plan on which one to do next would add a different strategic element; especially if Embolden does grant -10% Defense / Attack down. It would add something new to the table to do during a raid group.

Of course, this is just a suggestion; I know if SE would do anything, it would be to tweak some potencies around and that's it, for simplicity sake, and for the sake of not having to deal with "Balancing" with a new DoT or a debuff on enemy.

Thanks foe the replies btw =D

If over time effects are added then Verflare and Verholy would need to be reduced in potency to compensate the additional damage coming from the dots. I mean generally the concept is well thought, but I'd like to see maybe more burst output from RDM more than anything.

I'd personally prefer it if RDM did get a DoT like this. It's a good way to add to their potency without frontloading it. They don't get a spell like that at all currently. However, I feel Verflare/Holy should share the same DoT, and it should proc 2 White/Black Mana per tick (which is every 3 seconds currently) over the same duration. This would be slightly more than what you offer, not require any balancing acts around it, and fit within RDM's current play patterns nicely. It accelerates you to each subsequent melee combo without clipping, and manafication would feel a lot nicer with it.

As some people said, they won't do shit except adjusting potencies before 5.0. So there is no real need to "adjust" potency of verholy and verflare if we do that, since they'll not do that before the new expac and 5 new skills/traits.

In my opinion, it's a great idea in the long term for RDM's kit. I think that in theory, RDM's identity is "Keeping the balance between white and black". Adding something that asks you to keep balance between verholy and verflare seems to go in this way. But that is my personal opinion ;D

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

I'd personally prefer it if RDM did get a DoT like this. It's a good way to add to their potency without frontloading it. They don't get a spell like that at all currently. However, I feel Verflare/Holy should share the same DoT, and it should proc 2 White/Black Mana per tick (which is every 3 seconds currently) over the same duration. This would be slightly more than what you offer, not require any balancing acts around it, and fit within RDM's current play patterns nicely. It accelerates you to each subsequent melee combo without clipping, and manafication would feel a lot nicer with it.

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So this would be a bit less complicated, and I like that; and it would make sense to have it 2 White/Black per tick . However:

• Alternating Between: Verflare and Verholy

Continues the DoT. Just to keep the Red Mage shifting back and forth.

The other reason why I proposed the individual DoTs in the first place; would to give the "Illusion" that "Hey, Verholy adds Dia Effect," Cool and "Hey, Verflare adds Burn Effect;" to give them a new identity as well, not just Flavor Text with different effects.

Back to your point: It would fit very nicely in the RDM's current play patterns, I agree, and yes, It would definitely accelerate its DPS, without having to bolster up individual potencies and such.

Thanks for the reply; excellent discussion ;)

@Nobuyoki

Yeah, seeing how far we've gone without seeing anything major changed on RDM leads me to believe too; they're waiting for 5.0. for anything super major.
Adding that DoT / maybe even if the DoT's potencies are like 20 or 30; that additional Mana tick would substantially increase their overall momentum, as mentioned by Grimoire up top.

That would not only make RDM one that has to balance White and Black, but it would make them a fast-paced magic wielding machine, with a fun sword rotation that activates more often thanks to the added tick by the DoTs.

Thanks for the reply; hopefully we can see some small changes like this one in a future update, as 4.5 looms in.

Actually Red Mage has really seen Zero changes thus far as opposed to every other job seeing one or 2. I guess they do not care all that much about the job or they think it is fine as it is despite (at least the NA community) stating otherwise.

Red Mage did get one change: a shadow nerf. Lol

I can get on board with giving RDM some DoTs, but I'm not really sure how I feel about the gradual mana gauge increase added with it. If it were added in addition to the boost in mana Verholy/flare already grant when used, that just seems to be asking for mana balance issues. And if it's occurring instead of the typical mana boost from those spells, honestly I'd prefer the instantaneous effect over a gradual build of 21 points. Of all the things that can be improved for RDM, I don't think that they way mana gauge generation is handled is one of them.

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Originally Posted by ChaoticCrimson

I can get on board with giving RDM some DoTs, but I'm not really sure how I feel about the gradual mana gauge increase added with it. If it were added in addition to the boost in mana Verholy/flare already grant when used, that just seems to be asking for mana balance issues. And if it's occurring instead of the typical mana boost from those spells, honestly I'd prefer the instantaneous effect over a gradual build of 21 points. Of all the things that can be improved for RDM, I don't think that they way mana gauge generation is handled is one of them.

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I mean the gradually increase can be on the mana side that didn't get the mana boost then there shouldn't be a issue with the mana buildup.

Another point I would like to bring up is that Dia is an iconic WHM spell, the only game that gave RDM access to it was FFXI. I would call it something else maybe blight.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

I mean the gradually increase can be on the mana side that didn't get the mana boost then there shouldn't be a issue with the mana buildup.

Another point I would like to bring up is that Dia is an iconic WHM spell, the only game that gave RDM access to it was FFXI. I would call it something else maybe blight.

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Yeah that’s what I mean on that btw;

So the side that gets the 21 Mana (depending on what finisher is done) doesn’t get the Mana tick.

I’ll have to edit that in.

But the overall goal is to get both DoTs on to get the Embolden additional effect.

I like the Blight thing; but... how about Verdia? Ahahaha

I'd rather have a bigger verflare/holy than a dot I can't even see deal dmg. (see bahamut for digit disappointment)

I don't see RDM getting a DoT.

Not because of identity, but because of mechanics. There was a huge pruning of DoT skills because classes like Summoner and Bard were getting seriously hindered on open-world bosses. Since they have a limited number of debuffs they can store, eventually you'd end up not having any on the boss, because there's no room. Hence, anyone who didn't "need" their DoT, lost it. DoTs now became upgrades of each other, minimising the number you needed.

Of course, this is just forum gossip I'm repeating. It may turn out wrong. In which case, go nuts.

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

I don't see RDM getting a DoT.

Not because of identity, but because of mechanics. There was a huge pruning of DoT skills because classes like Summoner and Bard were getting seriously hindered on open-world bosses. Since they have a limited number of debuffs they can store, eventually you'd end up not having any on the boss, because there's no room. Hence, anyone who didn't "need" their DoT, lost it. DoTs now became upgrades of each other, minimising the number you needed.

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Wasn't aware about that; even if it is gossip or not: it would suck. But they'd still get the bump in Mana Gauge Ticks to further speed up generation.

As far as the DoT; I mean, besides overworld bosses, and NMs and such: this would bump the DPS slightly, speed up the Mana Gauge a bit, to increase more Sword Rotations, on just regular content. This could be a very easy addition, balancing wise. Of course:

The Tick for the Mana Gauge would = 21 more points for the duration of the DoTs per side; if the RDM cycles through them properly.

Or, as discussed above, if it's just ONE single DoT, [For simplicity] that can only remain active if both Finishers are cycled through, it could be 2 a tick equaling: 42 for both sides.

*And I must add, that isn't adding the continuous cycle of Jolt >> Aero / Thunder >> Fire/Stone etc.

But again; it'll definitely speed up the timing to get to 80/80 for finishers.

Plus, the bouncing back and forth from Verflare >> Verholy, Keep DoT's Active, then Embolden >> Manafication >> Sword Rotation, could prove to be a good increase to overall DPS.

That and Party Members within range if done properly timed.

Rdm needs more aoe dmg...takes forever to bring a mob down ugh..,would be nice if verholy and verflare gave you 10% mp back or something.Wouldnt mind scatter having a dot...

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Originally Posted by MysticDreamer

Rdm needs more aoe dmg...takes forever to bring a mob down ugh..,would be nice if verholy and verflare gave you 10% mp back or something.Wouldnt mind scatter having a dot...

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That's is true, what's funny is a while back I made a post about that, its here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...E-Attack-Phase

However, sadly I believe my idea would be too ambitious. But I'm not sure of course if SE would ever even consider something like that lol; but a summary of my idea from that post is:

After using "Scatter" Enhanced Scatter would trigger [Enhanced Veraero / Verthunder] to be AoE's at half potencies.

That would give them more AoE's without adding new spells.

I also had a post a while back where maybe in 5.0 if we get VerBlizzard / VerWater, have one of them be an AoE. But again, if anything, I've changed my perspective in a few areas for RDM. And would much rather have a classic FFXI EnSpell infused Sword attack, Enblizzard/Enwater or something along those lines.

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Originally Posted by MysticDreamer

Rdm needs more aoe dmg...takes forever to bring a mob down ugh..,would be nice if verholy and verflare gave you 10% mp back or something.Wouldnt mind scatter having a dot...

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I wouldn't say RDM needs more AoE damage. More AoE interaction perhaps, but Scatter spam is fine currently and you have your burst in Moulinet and Contre Sixte. I'd say it's a lower priority compared to everything else atm. Maybe add Scatter II and allow players to exchange the Scatter proc in order to use it.

MP recovery and raw DPS are the primary concerns atm. Altering the rotation to be more friendly to players who want to optimize the class would also be beneficial, and I do think another Mana spender that fits within the spell rotation is something that's needed to balance the kit out. That said, a DoT, if tuned appropriately, is not a bad option to add free damage.

An interesting note comparing RDM to other casters: (just an observation, mind) RDM is the only caster without an aoe "finisher". BLM's "finisher" is the aoe Foul, and SMN's "finishers" are deathflare/ahk morn.

Which is especially funny when RDM's finishers are named for BLM and WHM's aoe abilities, holy and flare.

Just stuff that makes me chuckle a bit.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

An interesting note comparing RDM to other casters: (just an observation, mind) RDM is the only caster without an aoe "finisher". BLM's "finisher" is the aoe Foul, and SMN's "finishers" are deathflare/ahk morn.

Which is especially funny when RDM's finishers are named for BLM and WHM's aoe abilities, holy and flare.

Just stuff that makes me chuckle a bit.

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Would be smart to have made one an AoE; maybe have Verflare be an AoE Finisher right?

Bc I never see myself, at least again, speaking for myself lol; I don't use my Combo on trash mobs. But if they did make one of them an AoE, I'd definitely do my sword rotation. Plus that would definitely make both options useable.
One for single target another AoE. Bc I only ever just use one most of the time anyways.

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Originally Posted by PatronasCharm

Would be smart to have made one an AoE; maybe have Verflare be an AoE Finisher right?

Bc I never see myself, at least again, speaking for myself lol; I don't use my Combo on trash mobs. But if they did make one of them an AoE, I'd definitely do my sword rotation. Plus that would definitely make both options useable.
One for single target another AoE. Bc I only ever just use one most of the time anyways.

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Trip moulinet would still beat out using an aoe finisher after the st combo. Maybe make verfreeze/verflood as aoe finishers usable after triple moulinet or something.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Trip moulinet would still beat out using an aoe finisher after the st combo. Maybe make verfreeze/verflood as aoe finishers usable after triple moulinet or something.

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I think in one of my older post I did almost a year ago, I had it to where: doing: Enchanted Riposte >> Enchanted Zwerchhau >> Enchanted Moulinet >> Verfreeze (AoE) Finisher

This was back when RDM was still freshly new so nobody liked my ideas then lol. But maybe if I wrote it now, the community might of liked my 5.0 RDM =D

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

Trip moulinet would still beat out using an aoe finisher after the st combo. Maybe make verfreeze/verflood as aoe finishers usable after triple moulinet or something.

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Yeah I had the same train of thought. Three Moulinets and boom VerAoe.

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Originally Posted by Zyneste

Yeah I had the same train of thought. Three Moulinets and boom VerAoe.

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That would be the easiet and most damage inflicting strat. I see; it would make sense too: triple moulinets; since the goal is to kill trash mobs ASAP.