[Suggestion] EX Queue

I was thinking that it could be a great addition for those who want to play harder content, the way it was supposed to be. The majority of players in Party Finder seemingly only want to rush through runs as fast as possible on unsynced, rather than enjoying the challenge presented.

EX queue for trials could really help those who enjoy more challenging content, and for other players it could be another daily to run for those nice rewards.

I can see the value in the suggestion, and I can understand how some would want to be able to experience the EX primal fights at the level of their initial release. That said, as somebody who's done pretty much every single EX primal on-content since the advent of ARR, and who's spent a pretty good chunk of time in PFs, let me say this: the daily rewards for clearing EX roulette would need to be absolutely astronomical before I'd even consider queuing up. I'm talking rewards that even MSQ roulette would look at and be like "daaaaaaaaayum."

If you want to experience these fights at minimum, or at least synched ilevel, you would be far better off trying your luck in a PF or by gathering FC people to give it a swing. Random people absolutely cannot be trusted with regularly, consistently being able to perform at even an EX primal's level of difficulty. Especially since so many people that aren't prepared for the difficulty, or don't know the fights would just queue in with the expectation that, as with all other content, the other 7 people would be able to drag their lifeless bodies across the finish line.

SargentToughie has phrased it better than I could. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, and I see the merit in it, but she's right. Another problem is, there's a massive difficulty spike between say Garuda Ex and Ramuh Ex. Even with amazing rewards in place, due to the timescales involved, you're probably quicker just taking the penalty and fishing for an easier ex primal than bashing your head against Ramuh Ex. You can't even increase the penalty because then people would just demand to be kicked (people do it even now with a 30 minute penalty, this happened to me recently in Trials Roulette. One wipe because we had I believe 5 newbies in the party, and this guy started mouthing off bigtime at us, saying we can't clear, to kick him, etc, which we refused. He then faked offline to try and force a kick, basically holding us hostage). It's a no win situation there, so I don't think this idea would work.

Yeah people do queue up ex trials and the unlucky folks that happen to be queuing up mentor roulette at the time would get into them. It's not a pleasant experience for both parties 90% of the time so I can't say I'd want one even with worthwhile rewards attached to them. This is also reflected by the fact that they purposefully not include any of the coils raid in the current normal raid roulette.

As Sargent said, the biggest worry is that the rewards would have to be extremely (hah) tasty. There would also have some measures put into place to ensure that people don't lower their ilvl down to 65 so they only get Garuda.

Don't get me wrong, I would like this idea and would do it given proper rewards, but there is a lot of things they would have to change and consider due to the massive difficulty gap between something like Garuda and Thordan (people would just dodge anything hard and keep going until they got an easy one).

With EX duties we step outside the "casual" zone and enter the "know (more or less, depends the duty) the mechanics", putting them into DF will likely result in a madness of failed duties (as Sargent pointed up).

I'd better keep Extreme content on PF.

I'd be okay with rewards being higher and such. And maybe it would need some extra tweaking, but as it stands currently there is next to no option for those who want to do more difficult content without unsyncing it, other than building an FC and getting everyone's schedules right and all that stuff.
I don't mind doing that, but options are options.

Players regularly fail mechanics even while unsynced. Giving them the option to fail even harder seems unwise.

I jest. But that's the way of old content.

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Originally Posted by xbamfo

I'd be okay with rewards being higher and such. And maybe it would need some extra tweaking, but as it stands currently there is next to no option for those who want to do more difficult content without unsyncing it, other than building an FC and getting everyone's schedules right and all that stuff.
I don't mind doing that, but options are options.

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I'll let you in on a secret: Thats no different from how it was when this content was current.
With a few exceptions (mainly Shiva and Sophia) this content has always been a pain in DF, because its not made for DF. At release you couldnt even queue for the current EX-primals, you needed a full party because the devs figured that you wont be able to clear it with randoms. And you know what? They were mostly correct about that.
For me building up your own party has always been part of the experience of this sort of content - me and some friends started building a LS to clear Titan EX back then. Today there are about 70 people in it and all are willing to help with Ex and Savage content.

I did pretty much everyone of those fights when they were current content and I even farmed some of the ARR ones in DF - Garuda, Ramuh and Shiva mostly. And that was at a time when you had a good chance that at least half the group was very familiar with the fight - and it still was a freaking pain. (...I had a lot of freetime and selfhatred back then, I guess...)
During the most recent Shiva Ex run that I got through my mentor roulette I wanted to cry because even after I explained mechanics and put down a letter for everyone to stack behind her, people were all over the place. They failed at stacking on "1".

"Extra tweaking" sounds a lot like addiotional nerfes, which I'm not onboard with - and neither should you, if you really want a challenging experience. So thats out.

"Options are options" - thats right, but there are good and bad options. You have the option to put salt in your coffee, but believe me its not a good one, so you better not put the salt next to the sugar... I disgress.
Bottomline is: EX-Primals arent made for DF. Queueing for them includes a very high chance that you end up with a bunch of people who just finished MSQ, are undergeared and unexperienced and unaware that this isnt the kind of content you just queue for. Each time I get an EX-primal in my mentor roulette my (best) advice to the group is to use PF for the next time (and yes, I still stay and try my best to help them clear).

I understand the desire to do those fights the "right way", but that requires that you put the "right effort" into it - which is building a party by yourself, working together with those people, communicate how you gonna deal with mechanics etc. etc.

The only way I could see this work for me (...but I'm the kind of person who joins "Clear for a friend!"-Shinryu EX parties - those are never "clear for a friend". Those are always "7 people are completly new to the fight"...) is to take the EX-primals out of the mentor roulette, add an "Expert-Mentor-roulette" that has no daily limit to the bonus and grants you 5 points towards the mountprogression on top of whatever tomestones. Rewards need to be given out even if the duty fails in the end or the group votes "abonon" after more than 30 minutes have passed.
And even then I'm unsure if many people would queue for it and how succesful you'd be... at the end of the day: EX-primals are not DF-content. Start networking today, its worth the extra effort!

Edit: I also dont fully agree with the idea that unsyched=no challenge. That is (mostly) true when you bring a full party, but I recommend you try to solo or duo some of the ARR-primals! Three-man-Sophia kept me and two friends busy for an evening at the start of SB. 4-man-Niddhog was still a challenge, even though it was a different one that involved a lot of Shirk... depending on how many people you bring those primals dont lose all their bite - so if you dont want to put in the effort to build a synched-party, only take one or two friends with you and see how far you can get! Its still a challenge - a different one, yes, but a challenge.

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Originally Posted by xbamfo

the way it was supposed to be.

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Not possible with combat changes. The changes to surecast and addition of arm's length break fights like Sophia, Levi and Titan. Casters can replenish mana to healers with manashift, they can remove a dot with erase or they can provide a magic def buff with apoc. More jobs have diversion and it lasts longer and is stronger than quelling. Shirk.

It would be optional, so I'm for it, btw.

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Originally Posted by xbamfo

The majority of players in Party Finder seemingly only want to rush through runs as fast as possible on unsynced, rather than enjoying the challenge presented.

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The problem is that the only challenge left to "enjoy" for people who cleared it when it was current is the "challenge" of your own party's inadequacies.