Garlean vs Elezen models

Most of the Garlean characters use modified Elezen models and they tend to look a bit 'off' to me - simply enough it must be the mix of Elezen body proportions and a more 'human' head, but I was interested exactly where the difference is, so I took matching screenshots of Nero and my Elezen character to compare them.

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...03f238f956.jpg https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...2bbcf3c3f1.jpg

It seems I got the angle a little bit off, judging from the position of their left hands, but it's close enough for comparision. I matched the image sizes by measuring how many pixels there were between the buckle on the scarf and the belt. You can put the two images in a 'gallery' viewer and flick back and forth to compare.

The heads are the same size and at the same height, but Nero's is wider, so it looks like his neck has to slope inwards slightly to match up with the Elezen body - although they do seem to have modified the shirt collar as well, but maybe not enough? Or maybe it's more about the length of the neck.

Possibly their eyes need to remain at a fixed height when they modify the face shape, so they can't adjust the proportions entirely. At any rate, they are at the same height on these two pictures.

Also noticable that Nero's coat is not simply a recolour of the Alchemist's Coat, but has some modified elements - higher coat collar, wider shirt collar, and an extra layer underneath that's probably hiding the join between the head and body. Nero's scarf is also thicker and (unless it's due to the angle) his shoulders are a bit more rounded.

So yeah. It seems there's not a huge difference between them except for the changed width of the head and neck, but it's noticable, particularly when they're moving. Perhaps also because Nero has quite a realistic face, it gives a different impression (a subconscious expectation that the body needs to look correctly-proportioned?) to the more stylised Elezen designs. An "uncanny valley" sort of effect.

As I remember it, Nael van Darnus used an elezen skeleton in 1.0 as well. It was very apparent from their flamboyant gestures.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheGrimace

As I remember it, Nael van Darnus used an elezen skeleton in 1.0 as well. It was very apparent from their flamboyant gestures.

---

Funny you should say that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

So yeah. It seems there's not a huge difference between them except for the changed width of the head and neck, but it's noticable, particularly when they're moving. Perhaps also because Nero has quite a realistic face, it gives a different impression (a subconscious expectation that the body needs to look correctly-proportioned?) to the more stylised Elezen designs. An "uncanny valley" sort of effect.

---

The problem is this is comparing a unique model with a player model. You'd have to compare the Garlean nameless henchmen. But aside from the face, it's pretty obvious they're Elezen models. So explain Cid then.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

The problem is this is comparing a unique model with a player model. You'd have to compare the Garlean nameless henchmen. But aside from the face, it's pretty obvious they're Elezen models. So explain Cid then.

---

Cid is.... a really short Garlean?

But seriously, he uses a Midlander model rather than Elezen. That’s why I said “most” at the start. Maybe the rule wasn’t as set when they were making 1.0 characters, or maybe they wanted him to have that different set of emotes.

And I don’t think Nero is a “unique model” as such. It’s a normal Elezen NPC model with a customised face on it (plus any alterations built into the customised alchemist coat). Thus it makes sense to me to compare it to an unmodified character to see where the differences are.

Most of the Garlean characters we see are in their heavy armour, which seems specifically designed (at a game level) to disguise those odd ‘borrowed’ proportions. It’s only really noticeable on the occasions where they are wearing lighter clothing - ie. Nero, and Jenomis in the Ivalice plotline.

Long before I’d worked out what was actually going on, as soon as Nero turned up in the Crystal Tower plotline wearing that coat instead of his armour, I just had the sense that there was something ‘wrong’ with his design - his head moved strangely and didn’t seem to quite fit his body - which turned out to be exactly the case.

Aurelie, you should visit that massive airship, the one that's used to get us to ridorana from kugane - there are at least four pure-blood garleans, and they all use the midlander model.

I'm quite serious, it's two of the dancers and one of the engineers. The fourth one being Jenomis himself.


My (likely wrong) theory, is that garleans might count as their own distinct race, purely based on the fact they have that third eye and can't manipulate aether - and maybe not unlike the hyurs, they have two clans? Where one is tall, elezen-shaped and the other is midlander shaped?

Either that, or hyurs now have four distinct clans, two of which being the unplayable garleans.

Or the third option, which is... I don't know why pure-blood garleans come in hyur and elezen packages both.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odstarva

Or the third option, which is... I don't know why pure-blood garleans come in hyur and elezen packages both.

---

Clearly genetic engineering :p

Considering Cid is pretty much a reference character, it's quite likely he had different rules going for him. But that doesn't exactly explain the Hyur-Puries on the Prima Vista.

For now, my theory is: They use the fact they never gave the garleans an actual race in the system to display a greater amount of diversity within it. Alternately, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is up to when they make garlean NPCs. Either or.

Wait, wait, first this might be a better post for the lore forum, but aside that what if the elezen-like model is used mostly for military garleans? If someone can confirm this (because I don't remember them all) maybe it'll means that the reason there's this dimorphism might be related to the military training and what not

I agree Nero falls into "uncanny valley", I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've always wondered why he was given far more realistic facial features and bone structure (lord, that heavy brow and shadow cast beneath it...yikes) than all other NPCs and player characters which are far more stylized and semi-realistic.

I thought this was about Garlean and Elezen fashion models.

Nero isn't the only insanely tall one though... he IS a giraffe of a giraffe but there are other 'tol' Garleans. Lucia uses the Elezan body with the more Hyur head model and is 'tol' in the Elezen way as well. An older 'chart' I found with someone who did a bit of 'digging' is here that ponders about it. Nero is just insanely tol magical princess but in general, we've had some pretty wide ranging heights. The 'major NPC warriors' have been, as expected of 'Judges' tall. (Regula was on the tall side as well.) And the Emperor and his spawn are stupid tol as well. However the mad doctor wasn't really all that impressively big? I wonder if it isn't just the fact that they are a wide-ranging race like hyur are? Midlander vs Highlander...? Considering the information of the Garlean background we got from Ridorana, I wouldn't be surprised that they have a wide range of height ranges.

Ooooooor they just decided to play fast and dirty with the models for dramatic effect and we're seeing the results of that now as we're actually going to the homeland and people want a more consistent racial answer and they're going to have to figure that out now. Oops. :P "Allagans" *wiggles fingers*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odstarva

Aurelie, you should visit that massive airship, the one that's used to get us to ridorana from kugane - there are at least four pure-blood garleans, and they all use the midlander model.

I'm quite serious, it's two of the dancers and one of the engineers. The fourth one being Jenomis himself.

---

Okay, I must be going mad, I could have sworn Jenomis was standing in an Elezen idle pose... but yes, on actually checking (both database and visiting in-game), he has a max-height Midlander model.

He still has rather strange proportions though, but in a different way. There could be something off with the size/shape of the customised face, or it could just be that really puffy hairstyle making his head look bigger, combined with the coat that gives him extra wide shoulders.

The other Garleans are a funny mix of Hyur models and Elezen features. From memory, the (Midlander) Thespian is wearing the Elezen version of the hempen underwear set, and the Dancer has a Duskwight tattoo. Plus there are some actual Elezen in the troupe as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Odstarva

My (likely wrong) theory, is that garleans might count as their own distinct race, purely based on the fact they have that third eye and can't manipulate aether - and maybe not unlike the hyurs, they have two clans? Where one is tall, elezen-shaped and the other is midlander shaped?

---

I like that theory!

The Garleans are certainly a distinct race by lore, it's just at a game level that they 'cheaped out' on the models and repurposed other races instead of building an equilvalent-to-playable-race level of customisation for only a few characters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

For now, my theory is: They use the fact they never gave the garleans an actual race in the system to display a greater amount of diversity within it. Alternately, the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is up to when they make garlean NPCs. Either or.

---

Also quite possible. ^_^;

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Remedi

Wait, wait, first this might be a better post for the lore forum, but aside that what if the elezen-like model is used mostly for military garleans? If someone can confirm this (because I don't remember them all) maybe it'll means that the reason there's this dimorphism might be related to the military training and what not

---

Interesting - or perhaps a heavily enforced split between "upper class" and "commoner" Garleans to the point that they're practically different races because they're not mixing at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bahati

I agree Nero falls into "uncanny valley", I'm glad I'm not the only one. I've always wondered why he was given far more realistic facial features and bone structure (lord, that heavy brow and shadow cast beneath it...yikes) than all other NPCs and player characters which are far more stylized and semi-realistic.

---

He's also really not helped by the fact you can barely see his eyes at a distance. (The shaded glasses are an improvement!) The character designers seem to have a liking for very pale eye colours and it doesn't work well.

The heavy eyelids seem to be a common trait for the Garleans we've seen. Eg. Lucia, Ramza, Zenos. But yeah, it's more about the degree of detail they've put into his face - perhaps because he was one of their earlier 'custom face' characters and they wanted to do a good job on that unique face, rather than thinking about how well it matched the other standard faces?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsalmaveth

Nero isn't the only insanely tall one though... he IS a giraffe of a giraffe but there are other 'tol' Garleans. Lucia uses the Elezan body with the more Hyur head model and is 'tol' in the Elezen way as well. An older 'chart' I found with someone who did a bit of 'digging' is here that ponders about it. [...]

---

I don't get why you're using 'tol' instead of 'tall'. Is that supposed to mean something in particular?

The height list you linked to is guesswork (and is going to be affected by poses, positioning and characters wearing bulky helmets) but you can actually get the NPC heights by looking them up in the database (to get their height setting in the format 0-100) and then checking that against the character creator menu which actually states the height that translates to. They got pretty close to the right answer for the 'standing NPC' characters.

Listed heights:

For male Elezen:
Gaius: 50 = 202 cm
Nero : 50
Regula: 100 = 209.8 cm

For female Elezen:
Lucia: 50 = 191 cm
Livia: 50

For male Midlanders:
Cid: 50 = 175 cm
Jenomis: 100 = 182 cm

They're... not all that creative with their character heights. (Although I did go looking up the various members of the Ishgardian high houses at one point, and there was a bit more variety across heights there - always at simple 0, 25, 50, 75, 100 intervals though.)

Meanwhile the settings for Ramza and Alma are very strange: both have height "255" and Alma isn't marked as having a 'child' model (as is used, of course for children, but also for characters like Alphinaud, Alisaie and the Padjals). They're not super tall or anything. Jenomis is taller than Ramza.

Also another curious thing from the character data - Livia's settings have the same skin and eye colour, and similar hair colour, to Urianger. Weird coincidence? Character builder bored at work and making genderswitched versions of NPCs (then 'throwing it in' because nobody's going to see her face anyway)?

I don't think Aulus (the mad scientist) is supposed to be Garlean though - at least, he doesn't have a customised face and I don't remember seeing he had the third eye.

I mostly used 'tol' as an amusing thing, nothing meant from it except that I like the term as an 'endearment' because I'm terribly fond of some of those characters. Especially Nero. And, as I said, the page I did link was old information that the person did their best to compile with what they had at the time. The new tools do allow for much better data.

I do wonder about the nature of these character models with the Garlean race, though. It's perplexing.

As for Aulus, his wiki does list him as being Garlean and wanting to fix his people's inability to use magic. Not sure if that means he has the Third Eye or not... but the wiki doesn't mean it is 'official' since it is not run by SE, right? I suppose we'll need to wait for the Lorebook? His headgear blocks any view.