Pictomancer(cause no one asked for it)

Okay so I lurk on the forums and when I see Job ideas I usually give my feedback. And although I said I had an idea for Geomancer, I said I wasn't going to release it; as a hopeful notion that it'll be implemented in a similar fashion to what i have, XD. Anyways, on a whim I decided to create a Pictomancer Job, which would basically be sorta like a Beastmaster/Tamer, since that what a Pictomancer is/was.

http://tinyurl.com/pictomancer

Anyways, a couple of things.

1: The skills and how they work should be easy to follow. It should be easy to see the rotation/a rotation just from the descriptions. If it doesn't seem that obvious, a slightly more detailed explanation is on the second sheet.

2: It doesn't look like the comments show on the one made to view. So the comments about the color spells aren't there. But I assure you all of the spell names are references to colors even if it doesn't look like it.

3: The second sheet shows a mini mock-up of the Job Gauge. It's a pretty simple system of 1-2-3, but also of 3-2-1, or 2-1-3/3-1-2/2-3-1/1-3-2, you get the idea, lol.

Everything should be there, I don't believe I missed anything; but I'm only a lala, so maybe I did, lol

So feel free to look it over and tell me what you think for a change. And if you need anything explain, I shall.

Also if anyone has a good lore quote, I'm all ears. i had stuff and thoughts but they all sounded too "modern" or "corny" so I wasn't happy. possible faux-icons to com later, possibly.

oh, right this too...
https://i.imgur.com/DrWWnG1.jpg
sorry its big, T.T

So pretty much Relm, Shadow's (Clyde's daughter ) -.-/ Well we do sight seeing maybe power increase based on logs?

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

So pretty much Relm, Shadow's (Clyde's daughter ) -.-/ Well we do sight seeing maybe power increase based on logs?

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Yeah, basically Relm, but I don't think strength based on the sightseeing logs is a good idea, runs the gambit of being like collecting Blue Mage skills.

But any thoughts on the idea?

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Originally Posted by Eloah

Yeah, basically Relm, but I don't think strength based on the sightseeing logs is a good idea, runs the gambit of being like collecting Blue Mage skills.

But any thoughts on the idea?

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Well the reason I suggested the logs would be to make it fit into the story. Kind of having the story develop around Illshyre with the preoccupied artist. To get inspiration for new actions. Perhaps depending on weather or time effect it's attacks to an extend. Or can go completely different direction and make it similar to a rune knight type and use runes to summon aspects of pictures they want to capture.

Example;

Defensive stance;

Green rune when used on a party member will auto cast effect on other rune holder up to 5 times with half potency. One on Healer other on tank. for example.

Water rune replenishes MP

Fire increases attack Damage

ect

Offensive stance doubles the effect of enfeebling or damage of attack.

Example place on NIN ; Fire rune based on element doubles power, if sneak attack doubles duration ect.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

snip

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That sounds fine, in theory, but that might only work if we change the game/job system. At the moment, adhering to the current system help make a job feel viable and not too outlandish.

Are there any thoughts on the idea I made?


Also why did you suggest two stances? What DPS has two stances? BLM doesn't count since it's not offense/defense it's burst/non-burst.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

That sounds fine, in theory, but that might only work if we change the game/job system. At the moment, adhering to the current system help make a job feel viable and not too outlandish.

Are there any thoughts on the idea I made?


Also why did you suggest two stances? What DPS has two stances? BLM doesn't count since it's not offense/defense it's burst/non-burst.

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You can tell you placed a lot of thought into it and it does seem well balance. However the only thing I would change would be some of the mini. It's nice however maybe making it less mini and more visual life like size. While i love the idea I think SE has used the mini pets way too much. We are big boys now :P

As for the stances, I myself love to draw and paint. Inspiration can be from both positive and negative feelings from a creative perspective. A Pictomancer should be able to tap into those as a support type I would think. After all things are a bit too linear can make a job kind of boring. Yes there is a nice flow however a bit of a challenge would be kind of nice. As for the BLM comparison that is a bit different. Yous speaking about open based inspiration type of art vs the study of an actual subjective art.

Well thank you for your thoughts. But what do you mean when you say mini? If you mean the minions I linked that's just for a visual reference, the actual monster would/could be any size, that's up to SE.

And your stance idea makes a bit more sense now. But based on what you said, I don't think you want stances per se. It seems like you want more support like skills, like Bard. That doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.

It's an interesting job and well presented.

I noticed your Sketch II - IV have a duration of 30 sec but the pets disappear after 21 sec.
I think there is a problem here.
Edit : ah, I see, 8 sec for casting the big attack of the 3 sketch, ouch.
Why Sketch I has 18 sec (duration) / 18 sec (pet) then ? Still, I don't get it why it's different from the 3 others Sketch.

Wouldn't have been better that Sketch III, draw a Bombo instead of a Golem ?
The color match and the Explosion too (but need to change Brick Breaker then).

The use of colors is well thought I guess and logical with the association of primary colors giving secondary colors, + the way to obtain Grey (but strange that White + Black dont give Grey instant)(and that secondary colors don't help to get Grey).
But I'am not convinced with the use of Ivory (white) and Ebony (black). Their potency are too low (50 or 100 if doubled).
Edit : ok, it seems like it's for only AOE (White, Grey, Black).
To continue on that, why you choose to apply Black and White colors on enemy instead on your palette ?
If you keep things like that, I think you should do minor changes for Ivory and Ebony and maybe add skills or additional effect on skills to use/combo with the Black and White applied on enemy.

Don't you think you have too much AOE actions which do the same thing : Explosion from Sketch III, Micro Meteor from Sketch IV, Star Prism and "Je ne sais quoi" (good name lol).

Color Splash is a very good idea but I wonder in what situation it could help. The buff for healer is too weak I should say. Tank will be worth for a tank buster. Dps is okay for burst.
The problem I see is when you cast it, you want the 3 effects be useful at the same moment. But I don't know if we have a fight which permit that.
For me, you could have a Color Splash I (reduce damage taken by team) which depend of primary colors, Colors Splash II (increased damage dealt by team) which depend of secondary colors. And if Grey is present, you have a bonus.
And by doing that, you lost the colors used for Color Splash I or II (+ Grey).

Pointillé I & II, Primary & Secondary Charge, Gestalt are nice. It reinforces the identity of the color aspect of the job.

To go a bit further I imagine some skills like :
- one where you throw all your paint pots on the canvas (if the job have one but I doubt, it's not a painter) and have a random effect.
- refresh/wash your palette with water (so remove colors) and have a good effect (could be Transcience but with a better effect/potency depending of the number of colors removed).

It's good to see that you've finaly posted one of your job ideas ^.^ I've seen you posting in other job idea threads and after seeing your signature, I always wondered what you'd come up with ;)
I'll admit that when I first read the excel sheet, I was quite confused with what you wanted us to do. However after a while of scrolling up and down the list of spells and abilities and imagining playing it, I think I get roughly what you're supposed to do. It seems like quite an interesting job. =)

Just a few little questions atm. I was wondering what you thought to adding an instant cast spell or maybe making the 3 primary colour spells 1.5s cast time? It's mainly for using the sketches really as they're every ~20-30s and the only instant cast spell you have is the DOT. It just doesn't sound like they'll sync up enough so that you can refresh the DOT when you need to sketch (i.e. you can't proc the GCD so that you can use sketch in the oGCD).
I was also wondering about Colour Splash. It seems quite powerful but I was more wondering about maybe lowering the tank buff to 10% to bring it in line with the total % buff each role with receive in the party. Basically in 4 man content, the tank and healer would get 10% to their jobs each and the DPS would collectively get 10%. In 8 man content, tanks, healers and DPS would collectively get 20% to help with their defenses, healing and damage respectively (this point is also partly my OCD wanting them to be the same ;) ).
My last one was about the lvls you learn Ebony and Ivory. I was thinking that maybe they should be learnt at different lvls because you don't usually learn more than one spell or ability at the same time. This one is also partly personal preference. =)

Overall though, this sounds like a really interesting idea and I'd very much like to try it out! I was initially worried that you wouldn't use some of the sketches once you lvled up (see Titan-egi T.T ) but based on the recast timers you appear to have to use them all which is awesome ^.^ Obviously this doesn't apply in fights with significant down time but what can you do? Big thumbs up from me =D

YES!!!!! Feedback. Finally, lol. Okay I will answer all your inquiries once I am able to get to my computer. Trying to do all that on my phone would kill me, lol.

But in advance I thank you for your input.

Okay here are my responses to peoples inquiries

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Why Sketch I has 18 sec (duration) / 18 sec (pet) then ? Still, I don't get it why it's different from the 3 others Sketch.

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When I was thinking of what "subjects" to Sketch, the first one that came to me for Purple was a Pudding. My first thought was, "when a pudding dies, they dissolve into a puddle", so I wanted that for part of the attack. But I felt that having them out for the same duration as the others might seem OP, since they leave an AoE puddle behind once they leave. It's deceiving, kinda, but their actual total time is 42 seconds. Combining their attack with their finisher the potency total is roughly 420-450 which when calculating the Madragora's potency, roughly 620-740, it's actually lower; which makes me wonder if I need to fix that?

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Wouldn't have been better that Sketch III, draw a Bombo instead of a Golem ? The color match and the Explosion too (but need to change Brick Breaker then).

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To the first part of this question, I chose a Golem since they are usually brown in color, brown being a variant of Orange. I will admit a Bomb crossed my mind. But Bombs are usually associated with fire, and fire with red. As for the second. When I was thinking of attacks for the Sketches, it was easy to think of what I have seen, but naming them is a different story. Like I know Mandragoras scream but is it just scream or (blank) scream. When I got to the Golem, I remembered them doing an attack where they expel magical energy and shoot rocks at people in all directions. When I found a list, a move like that wasn't there, so I decided to just call it what it was, an Explosion. An explosion doesn't have to be fire it's just an expansion of energy. Plus Bombs usually use Self-Destruct as their finisher.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Why you choose to apply Black and White colors on enemy instead on your palette ?

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Trying to think of an AoE attack was a little difficult, most jobs, half the time, are just spamming a move over and over. The Black and White "back and forth" as it were came about as a way of keeping it simple but making it feel somewhat unique. As for why it's not on the Palette. They are only used for AoE; you can use single target on a group of enemies, but you wouldn't use AoE on just one. Plus I felt it might become too much paint to monitor. As for the potencies, I wanted them to mirror what the current casters have for their "spamable" AoE with BLM having 50/80(160)/100, SMN having 30(70), and RDM having 100. I felt 100 was a good potency for the spells. But to make the spells play off one another I made it that they double the potency after being effected by the other spell. The potencies can be adjusted but as of right now they fall with the amounts "set" by the other casters.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

If you keep things like that, I think you should do minor changes for Ivory and Ebony and maybe add skills or additional effect on skills to use/combo with the Black and White applied on enemy.

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That is exactly how the Gray Paint mechanic came about. I wanted something to interact with the White/Black mechanic. At the time this was the best I could come up with. But I am open to ideas.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Don't you think you have too much AOE actions which do the same thing : Explosion from Sketch III, Micro Meteor from Sketch IV, Star Prism and "Je ne sais quoi" (good name lol).

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Ultimately, every attack in the game is the same just with a different coat of paint, no pun intended. My guess is you are referring to the degradation of the potency for the skills you mentioned, and you may be right. But the skills are either going to hve a lower potency or a high one which degrades. If you have any ideas on adjustments, you have my right ear, I cut my left one off.. XD

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

Color Splash is a very good idea but I wonder in what situation it could help. The buff for healer is too weak I should say. Tank will be worth for a tank buster. Dps is okay for burst.
The problem I see is when you cast it, you want the 3 effects be useful at the same moment. But I don't know if we have a fight which permit that.
For me, you could have a Color Splash I (reduce damage taken by team) which depend of primary colors, Colors Splash II (increased damage dealt by team) which depend of secondary colors. And if Grey is present, you have a bonus.
And by doing that, you lost the colors used for Color Splash I or II (+ Grey).

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For Color Splash I was trying to figure out a form of utility that has yet to be done, T.T How many times can we have a skill that increases damage dealt, increases direct hit, reduces damage. As I said in a previous response, everything is ultimately the same just with a different coat of paint. I was browsing the current utility to figure something out. Devotion was used the most, since it has all 3 buffs too, but in a smaller amount. I figured a buff that depends on the recipient would be interesting and hasn't been done yet. I tried to come up with percentages that would be beneficial but not break the skill. Your idea about using Gray Paint is interesting and worth looking into.

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

To go a bit further I imagine some skills like :
- one where you throw all your paint pots on the canvas (if the job have one but I doubt, it's not a painter) and have a random effect.

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This is what "Je ne sais quoi" is supposed to be. It's not stated, cause I felt if might cause confusion, but my thought was the animation would be random, but the damage output the same. I didn't want to make a random effect cause then it might become a skill that people don't want to use since the random effect isn't what they want; just look at the AST cards, lol. As for a canvas, I was actually thinking of another "gauge" that would show you what sketch you currently have out. I din't make a mock-up since I wasn't sure if I wanted it. But it was a thought

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Originally Posted by Ceasaria

- refresh/wash your palette with water (so remove colors) and have a good effect (could be Transience but with a better effect/potency depending of the number of colors removed).

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This might be a better use for Transience, with the current effect being an Additional Effect. I'll admit Transience was one of the last skills made, and at that point I was like "what hasn't been done before," lol

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Originally Posted by Rinion

I was wondering what you thought to adding an instant cast spell or maybe making the 3 primary colour spells 1.5s cast time? It's mainly for using the sketches really as they're every ~20-30s and the only instant cast spell you have is the DOT. It just doesn't sound like they'll sync up enough so that you can refresh the DOT when you need to sketch (i.e. you can't proc the GCD so that you can use sketch in the oGCD).

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i thought about making some of the spells [the primaries like you suggested] have a lower cast time. But then I thought of the animation and how it's supposed to look like you are getting paint off your palette and onto your brush; I felt a "longer" cast time would show that better. Doesn't mean it cant be shortened. As for Pointillé, the word is to literally DoT something, how appropriate, throwing paint [instant cast] felt appropriate. As for the GCD/oGCD synergy at a glance they seem to work well, in theory. But like it's done now, the player base tends to find what is optimal. I will go through with my thoughts on a rotation soon, but as of right now, it's left up in the air so that each person can figure it out on their own with what works for them. At the moment the skills potencies, which admittedly may need and adjustment, and recasts are set so as to not make them too powerful, ie 4 Flares in a row.

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Originally Posted by Rinion

I was also wondering about Colour Splash. It seems quite powerful but I was more wondering about maybe lowering the tank buff to 10% to bring it in line with the total % buff each role with receive in the party. Basically in 4 man content, the tank and healer would get 10% to their jobs each and the DPS would collectively get 10%. In 8 man content, tanks, healers and DPS would collectively get 20% to help with their defenses, healing and damage respectively (this point is also partly my OCD wanting them to be the same ).

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Color Splash might need to be looked over again. Along with the separate buffs each role got I tried to not make them OP, compared to similar skills, that is how I landed on the potencies they have. A flat 10% might be okay for healers and tanks, but might be OP for DPS. I'll have to look at it more to find a way to balance it but not make any one OP.

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Originally Posted by Rinion

My last one was about the lvls you learn Ebony and Ivory. I was thinking that maybe they should be learnt at different lvls because you don't usually learn more than one spell or ability at the same time. This one is also partly personal preference. =)

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The short answer is some skills can be learned at the same time. Many of the upgraded skills are learned together, as are skills that support one another. It just depends on how the skills are made/used.
The long answer is all of these skills. Granted, most are a remnant from the Class/Job issue, but they still apply.

Summoner/Scholar
Summon/Physick, Aetherflow/Energy Drain, Sustain/Resurrection, Bane/Summon III/Adloquium, Shadow Flare/Enkindle/Lustrate, Bio III/Miasma III, Summon Bahamut/Enkindle Bahamut
Black Mage
Manaward/Convert, Aetherial Manipulation/Flare
Red Mage
Redoublement/Acceleration
White Mage
Cure II/ Presence of Mind, Medica II/Benediction
Astrologian
Draw/Diurnal Sect/Undraw, Royal Road/Empty Road/ Spread/Undraw Spread, Nocturnal Sect/Synastry
Paladin
Shield Swipe/Shield Oath, Bulwark/Total Eclipse, Circle of Scorn/Hallowed Ground
Warrior
Butcher's Block/Defiance, Storm's Eye/Infuriate
Dark Knight
Grit/Darkside, (they use to have Delirium/Living Dead, but Delirium was removed and reworded)
Bard
Windbite/Mage's Ballad (they use to have Wide Volley/Battle Voice, but Wide Volley was removed) Caustic bite/Stormbite
Machinist
Hot Shot/Rapid Fire, all heated shots, (they had a good chunk of their moves removed, who knows what was where)
Monk
Demolish/Rockbreaker, Perfect Balance/Dragon Kick
Dragoon
Blood for Blood/Jump, Chaos Thrust/Dragonfire Dive
Ninja
Jugulate/Ten
Samurai
Gekko/Iaijutsu, Yukikaze/Meikyo Shisui

This is so well thought out! I don't generally look at the DPS Forums, but I'm glad I did today! I love how much thought you put in to it; the balance, and just the level of detail with descriptions. I found myself pleasantly reading the ENTIRE doc. Also I enjoy how you broke it down too, and of course, the Icon is super cute lol.

Just the fact that I can summon a Mandy and cast Leaf Dagger! I'm in! And a baby-behemoth. Dude, I'm all in.

It's unique, it's "Colorful" =D and I'm on board.

Glad to see your expertise in designing a job.

Yeah this is well done. Math wise you're able to get full paint and put up Your DoT over 10 GCDs, which nearly fits within one Sketch rotation, though I haven't thought about how that's accomplished for max DPS yet. I'd say the only thing you might want is to make either your Blue/Yellow/Red or Purple/Green/Orange paint abilities instant cast, perhaps as a combo action. My only concern is oGCD alignment, which Pointillé helps with but does not solve. Using a Sketch after Purple/Green/Orange makes the most sense, but there are busier windows where it would be appreciated on Blue/Yellow/Red. My suggestion is to simply pick one group over the other.

This is one of the better original job ideas I've seen in a long while. Well done! Now if we can just get the devs to notice...

I really like this job great job. If SE really wants to add a unique job to the game I feel this one should definitely be considered it's unique and fits with the way final fantasy jobs are supposed to feel. Unlike something like a necromancer which is also suggested by many but doesn't have that Final Fantasy aesthetics in my opinion

you got what you wanted buddy

I don't dislike Pictomancer in theory, and think it could be neat but the graphics/effects for it seem so... wildly out of place for the rest of the game? I hope, maybe, it looks better in-game and less er... Splatoon-y. I'm disappointed, but I'll withhold judgement until I actually get to play the class.

So, Krile theme went from a 5 y.o. to 6 y.o.

OMG, people Necro'd this thread before I did. I am so grateful. I never posted my RDM idea prior to the reveal, so I wonder if I'm close with the design like I was with RDM. With RDM I guessed swapping between casting and melee, but a bit differently.

But yes for those wondering, I am very excited! And I love Krile, I think she is a perfect fit for the job.

We may finally get a LB worse than RDM ; the whole screen covered in paint !

Holy shit, gotta love those pre -ShB potency values on your imagining of this job. And DoTs. And ground-effects. And pets. We've come so far.

It's a shame that what you've made would probably have been more fun to play than whatever they cook up.

(Yes, it summons a Moogle in the clip, but the three jump-cuts all are the same action; they repeat it 3 times from different angles just to show off the effect; it resolves instantly and doesn't linger)