Construct 7 with Math Majors!

So I did the math part of Construct 7 with a few math majors I know, including myself. These are people who are in Calculus 3 or higher in college.

They do not play FFXIV so I just did the math part and mimicked it. I gave each of them one of the HP numbers and told them “....divide by 3” or whatever. I then had cards set out for each pool Construct 7 makes.

Out of 6 people this happened

-First, all were confused by the word “divide” they thought thy had to divide their number by the one I said and get that card. So obviously some numbers were impossible.

-Then when I said it does not actually mean to divide it, one person thought of “divisible” in the next minute and got the answer right. They had a 4 and I said “divide by 3.” They chose the 2 card to get 6, which is divisble by 3.

-After the other figured this out, I tried Prime. Surprisingly, they all thought 1 was a prime number, which I often mistake on occasion also. So we had a fun talk about the definition.


Simple math, but even math majors got stumped for a few minutes.

I also tried this with a friend who is not strong in math but does coding...and they somehow got it instantly.

(sorry had to comment because I can’t edit post on the mobile version)

I don't think it's fair to tell them "Divide by x" or whatever because that's not what the boss actually does. He uses an ability called "Divide by x," which is the cast bar, while explicitly saying (in chat as well as an onscreen pop-up) "Calibrate vitals to multiples of x." He literally tells you what to do if you read -- it's not like you have to "figure it out" beyond finding out that standing in the circles changes your hp.

Also, how does a group of math majors think that 1 is a prime number? I have a hard time believing that any competent math major wouldn't understand the fundamental theorem of arithmetic well enough to know that 1 isn't defined to be prime.

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Originally Posted by Azbroolah

I don't think it's fair to tell them "Divide by x" or whatever because that's not what the boss actually does. He uses an ability called "Divide by x," which is the cast bar, while explicitly saying (in chat as well as an onscreen pop-up) "Calibrate vitals to multiples of x." He literally tells you what to do if you read -- it's not like you have to "figure it out" beyond finding out that standing in the circles changes your hp.

Also, how does a group of math majors think that 1 is a prime number? I have a hard time believing that any competent math major wouldn't understand the fundamental theorem of arithmetic well enough to know that 1 isn't defined to be prime.

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First I went with what exactly the boss said with “divide” and his exact quotes just to see what they thought of the actual fight. Like an experiment it is best to go with what actually happened not what should happen.

I told them after a few minutes that it does not actually mean that.

And it seems possible to believe that when you have been being lazy all summer.

Just because we are math majors does not mean we don’t make mistakes haha. And 1 does generally seem like a number that would be prime even though by definition it is not.

My point is they understood the arithmetic, but got confused by the boss’ wording. Once they understood what was actually wanted, they did fine.

Like for example they thought maybe it was more like coding where if you choose “int” for numbers, you can only do whole numbers. So if you divide like 2/4 in coding, it would just give you 0. Or 3.2 x 2 would just give you 6.

Basically ignoring anything after the decimal point.

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Originally Posted by CryBloodwing

First I went with what exactly the boss said with “divide” and his exact quotes just to see what they thought of the actual fight. Like an experiment it is best to go with what actually happened not what should happen.

[...]

My point is they understood the arithmetic, but got confused by the boss’ wording. Once they understood what was actually wanted, they did fine.

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But you didn't tell them what the boss says. In game, the boss explicitly says the phrases "Calibrate vitals to multiples of x," and "Calibrate vitals to primes." The ability he uses is called "Divide by x," which is not the same thing as telling someone "Divide by x." The boss does tell players exactly what to do.

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Originally Posted by CryBloodwing

And 1 does generally seem like a number that would be prime even though by definition it is not.

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I think this is only really true if you don't understand why prime numbers are important to number theory. Within the context of higher-level mathematics, 1 being defined as not prime is absolutely the natural choice, not just a "weird" definition.

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Originally Posted by CryBloodwing

-After the other figured this out, I tried Prime. Surprisingly, they all thought 1 was a prime number, which I often mistake on occasion also. So we had a fun talk about the definition.

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I'm curious how you phrased this to them. You seem to be a stickler for phrasing it exactly as the boss does, and yet you (and everyone else who talks about this move) typed "Prime" when the boss move is called "Indivisible". I'm fully aware that 1 is not a prime number (and that the game does not accept 1 as a valid answer for this move), but doesn't it fit the definition of indivisible? I think it would be perfectly reasonable for a math major to consider 1 to be indivisible.

I imagine this is just a simple matter of localization (perhaps other languages to somehow specify "prime" more explicitly) and unfortunately having the move called "prime" in English is not a clear indicator of what you're supposed to do.

The thing is doesn't the boss say when he goes in to Computation Mode to match numbers to required multiples... or something along the lines of that. Then a few seconds after he will ask you to provide either multiples, divisions or a prime number.

So if you have 3 HP and it asks you to divide by 3, you could go in to the 3 circle to increase to 6 HP or just stay where you are, as 3x1 is still a multiple. The only issue I had though was with the Prime numbers, it's not exactly something you use in day to day life.

I wonder how they are math majors if they think 1 is prime number.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

I'm curious how you phrased this to them. You seem to be a stickler for phrasing it exactly as the boss does, and yet you (and everyone else who talks about this move) typed "Prime" when the boss move is called "Indivisible".

[...]

I imagine this is just a simple matter of localization (perhaps other languages to somehow specify "prime" more explicitly)

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Again, the boss move is called "Indivisible," but the boss literally tells players to "Calibrate vitals to primes." Yes, EXPLICITLY "primes."

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Originally Posted by Kurando

The thing is doesn't the boss say when he goes in to Computation Mode to match numbers to required multiples... or something along the lines of that.

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Yes, and as "Divide by X" or "Indivisible" is casting, a HUGE popup directly in the middle of the screen says "Calibrate vitals to multiples of X" or "Calibrate vitals to primes." Apparently, everyone only reads the cast bar and stops paying attention to everything else on the screen during this fight.

Screenshots:

https://i.imgur.com/re97YoK.png
https://i.imgur.com/YyCLx7G.png
https://i.imgur.com/VpCNwrI.png
https://i.imgur.com/LjgAaed.png
https://i.imgur.com/KIC5Gwk.png

INSTRUCTIONS IN SPEECH BUBBLES.

Of particular interest should be the third speech bubble.

--COMMAND--
ALIGN CURRENT VITALS WITH SPECIFIED MULTIPLES.

You're not wrong, but the game has taught us that 99% of the text in those pop-up bubbles are flavor text, unimportant to the task at hand. I've done this fight at least once a week since it came out, and seeing that he actually says the word "PRIMES" is news to me. I can't think of any past situation where that popup text as important to the completion of a fight, and guess I'm too busy pushing my buttons to continue doing damage. That text should probably be forced to remain on the screen until his cast is completed, unless you're going to tell me it does that too and I'm completely oblivious (which is certainly possible).

I'm sure it doesn't help that I use a focus-target box down near the bottom on my screen to see what it's casting, as opposed to something near the top where this text actually is...

You guys do realize that the scrap bots before the fight give you prime numbers so really all you need is just to remember those based on HP, the other ones are just mainly numbers that can be divided by or subtracted by the number specified. -.- you don't need to be a math wiz. you can also get what he is going to ask from previous scrap bots on the way. I run it close to 3-4 a week ( Card that I RNG hates me ) and only really have failed when people do it incorrectly. On that note you don't have to step into a circle if your number is already the answer.

On that note the problem is not really the math if done properly is more people running away from wide aoe. IF you close enough can just side step and even attack while he does lasers that go around, if your terrible at side steps or can't distinguish perimeters can always just save spring for that single situation.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

You're not wrong, but the game has taught us that 99% of the text in those pop-up bubbles are flavor text, unimportant to the task at hand. I've done this fight at least once a week since it came out, and seeing that he actually says the word "PRIMES" is news to me. I can't think of any past situation where that popup text as important to the completion of a fight, and guess I'm too busy pushing my buttons to continue doing damage. That text should probably be forced to remain on the screen until his cast is completed, unless you're going to tell me it does that too and I'm completely oblivious (which is certainly possible).

I'm sure it doesn't help that I use a focus-target box down near the bottom on my screen to see what it's casting, as opposed to something near the top where this text actually is...

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It's certainly not a common method of conveying information but I don't think it's the only fight in the game that does it or anything. You could argue that Alexander Prime uses it, when he counts down to his ultimate attack; as far as I know, the only way to properly time the tank limit break is to watch the speech bubble that has the countdown. Also, I believe that in Tsukuyomi EX, she has different quotes for the gun and the spear Nightfall mechanics to accompany the differing audio cues ("Beg for mercy!" vs. "Your end is near."), so you could argue that it's also quite important there.

As for remaining on screen until the cast completes, that is possibly a valid point. It also appears in the chatbox, though.

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Originally Posted by Azbroolah

It's certainly not a common method of conveying information but I don't think it's the only fight in the game that does it or anything. You could argue that Alexander Prime uses it, when he counts down to his ultimate attack; as far as I know, the only way to properly time the tank limit break is to watch the speech bubble that has the countdown. Also, I believe that in Tsukuyomi EX, she has different quotes for the gun and the spear Nightfall mechanics to accompany the differing audio cues ("Beg for mercy!" vs. "Your end is near."), so you could argue that it's also quite important there.

As for remaining on screen until the cast completes, that is possibly a valid point. It also appears in the chatbox, though.

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Interesting. That would explain why I caused a wipe in Alexander the first time I did it, and I would MUCH rather look at the quote in TsuEx instead of trying to listen for the audio. I was not aware of those things.

I don't think that stuff shows up in my chatbox...? Might be filter related. My filters are set to chat and system only. I wish the more important text would force itself into your log regardless of filter settings. Maybe it does? Now I'm questioning what I thought I knew.

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Originally Posted by Azbroolah

But you didn't tell them what the boss says. In game, the boss explicitly says the phrases "Calibrate vitals to multiples of x," and "Calibrate vitals to primes." The ability he uses is called "Divide by x," which is not the same thing as telling someone "Divide by x." The boss does tell players exactly what to do.



I think this is only really true if you don't understand why prime numbers are important to number theory. Within the context of higher-level mathematics, 1 being defined as not prime is absolutely the natural choice, not just a "weird" definition.

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No, I did say exactly what the boss would say. I just did not type it correctly on here.

I wrote down the boss’ quotes and read them off.

One thing that a lot of people seem to misunderstand is the fact that the castbar shows what the BOSS is doing, not what you need to do to counter it. When he casts "Divide by three", that means the boss is trying to divide by three. Think of it the same way as the second boss in Temple of the Fist: When he casts "Fore and Aft", he isn't telling you to go to the fore and/or aft. He is telling you that he will be attacking at the fore and aft.