Who tanks?

I just leveled up a DRK and started running 8 and 24 man content. I'm just wondering how we decide who main tanks when there are multiple tanks, but only one boss. In 24 mans, it looks like it's always group A's tank unless there is a discussion beforehand (like group A's tank is undergeared and asks to pass on main tanking).

For 8 man content, I've just stood there for around 10 seconds to see if the other tank goes, then I go main tank if we are still standing there.

When there are two different tank classes in the dungeon, does one take priority as main tank, like PLD > DRK > WAR, mostly because war can dps so well?

It also seems like the top geared tanks never want to tank. I'm assuming this is because they can put out a lot more dps, so the lesser geared tank should be the one focused on tanking?

In short, is there an etiquette for choosing the main tank so that I don't have to sit there waiting to see if the other tank wants to?

I feel in most occasions it's whoever has the most patience. Some tanks will just stand there with no intention of going tank stance, but eventually someone has to go mt. Generally I'll give it a few seconds and if the other tank seems like they only want to DPS them I'll start things off, otherwise you can try communicating as well and just saying what is your preferred stance. In 24 man there is the risk of anyone in the entire raid pulling prematurely so there is less time to mess about on waiting for someone to decide is tanking. All tanks are viable though and WAR can easily main tank in Deliverance if they know what they are doing.

Generally speaking, WAR is the best pulling Tank. However in my experience when I pug on WAR I end up with co-tanks that have the "WAR is OT" mindset, so then I just switch to Deliverance and let them pull (or sometimes I pull and they fight for aggro anyway, so I just Shirk and let them MT).

In 24 mans you should just put in chat if you want to MT, and if someone else runs in and pulls instead then let them have it.

I personally think whoever has the ninja should tank since hopefully the ninja shadewalks the tank. If no ninja is there than up to whoever wants to.

TL;DR - There is no best MT or OT for every situation. Encounters vary in the type of damage they do and the utility they need, making all 3 tanks very useful in different situations. WAR is the most commonly used MT, but good parties will choose tanks to fit the current situation.

In all content except hardcore end game raiding, it doesn't matter at all who tanks and it is mostly random. When I tank, I tend to just MT all the time so that we can get through content faster without having to sit around and decide.

Technically, some tanks are superior at MT and OT at lower levels, while the roles switch around a bit at higher levels.

In lvl 50 content, the DRK actually makes the best OT because it has access to more DPS capability (Dark Arts) than WAR or PLD. PLD gets most of its DPS abilities between levels 50 and 60, and WAR doesn't even get its DPS stance until lvl 52.

Between level 60-69, DRK really falls behind as MT because they don't get The Blackest Night until 70, while both PLD and WAR have virtually all of their kits and are only missing mostly fluff abilities.

At lvl 70, for casual content (basically everything except hardcore 8 man raiding), the 3 tanks are all equally viable and it makes little to no difference who tanks. Enemies just don't do enough damage for it to matter, so it is basically just player choice.

For lvl 70 hardcore content, WAR is generally the strongest puller and MT due to their ability to put out high threat in their opener, even without their tank stance. WAR's Holmgang is also ridiculously good, with its low CD, so WAR tends to be preferred a lot of the time for MT. They lose virtually no DPS, whereas the other 2 tanks lose a bit more. PLD easily loses the most, so if in a DRK/PLD composition, then the DRK should pull.

The last consideration is the fight itself. DRK gets special consideration for fights that have magical tankbusters because of how strong Dark Mind is for those abilities. PLD is always a good choice for the mountain of additional utility and party mitigation they bring as well.

Thanks for the replies. I think I'll just start taking the main tank mindset. It seems like most tanks don't actually want to tabk, as they all sit there waiting to see if I pull, just like I was doing with them. I was trying to let them decide since I'm usually the nooby of the two tanks.

Im not to the hardcore content yet, and yeah, it does seem like anyone can tank current easier content. I mostly just wanted to know if there were unspoken rules, like certain classes get to MT more, or better gear = should be dpsing because they get more out of it, etc... It doesn't seem to be the case though.

In practical terms for PUGs I generally assume whoever has the higher unbuffed health tanks. Usually whomever has higher health is better geared with the exception of pentamelded accessories. And if they are using pentamelded accessories just let them stretch their epeen and DPS anyway. Barring that, if they won't go tank stance (or turn theirs off!) then I'll go ahead and do it. It makes me happy when the other tank steps up. Not because I get to DPS, but because then I get to do all the voke/shirk and external cooldown stuff most people ignore when they OT.

I wait until the Duty Commenced message to see if the other tank puts on their tank stance. If not, I just ask. I don't mind taking either role.

Unless it's Steps of Faith, then screw that noise, I'm going for a cannon. Mostly because nobody ever seems to want to do that, lately.

On JPN servers, it's generally agreed that in alliance raids, the B alliance Maintanks.

On english speaking servers, I'll go first, and if someone else tries to fight me, it'll be a small duel to see who grabs the aggro first. Generally, I'll win, and they jump to OT...

Although there's one recent case where they refused to let it go, so I dropped to DPS stance with irritation.

In pug 8-man stuff? Whichever dude turns on tank stance first.
In pug 24-mans whoever is in A / whichever one takes over if(/when) that dude dies.

that's what I've seen at the norm. If all else fails, just ask 'em.

The easy answer is to check who's in tank stance vs dps stance. If no one is in tank stance either step up and be the MT, or if you're new/don't know the content, maybe ask one of the other tanks if they wouldn't mind MT'ing. When I run stuff myself and the other tank(s) aren't in tank stance, I usually ask "(name), do you prefer to MT or OT?" and that either gets a "I'd prefer to X" or a "which would you prefer?" response :D

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Originally Posted by Ekimmak

On english speaking servers, I'll go first, and if someone else tries to fight me, it'll be a small duel to see who grabs the aggro first. Generally, I'll win, and they jump to OT...

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I'm the exact opposite, I'll take charge if I see nobody else stepping up, but if they decide to fight aggro for it, it's their damage loss, not mine. If it's 8 person content I'll shirk them immediately. Fighting for aggro is a huge waste of time in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Keldon

if you're new/don't know the content, maybe ask one of the other tanks if they wouldn't mind MT'ing

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While it's natural reaction, I'd say opposite should be the way to go. Outside of savage content, MT doesn't have to do anything. OT on the other hand needs to do some important mechanics in few fights, especially now with normal raids roulette.

Personally I try to adjust to sync and players. For example if I'm on lvl 50 WAR I'll try to MT because of no Deliverance and OT when I'm on DRK. If I see other tank(s) are PLD I'll pull.

The unspoken rule about whoever puts on tank stance.

Then you have those guys that OT in tank stance and you scratch your head a bit there...

For level 50 content. DRK is the best as a dps instead of tanking. IT has a strong enmity combo, sure, but PLD has only one combo. PLD should be the tank in 50 raids. Warrior has some other combos, but it'll lose some potency by it. Whether the PLD or WAR decides is tank or not, both have shirk to help reduce their enmity. I can't say anything on the matter for HW, but PLD has 2 new combos for HW, and DRK just has more ogcds. As someone has mentioned, warrior is the best at pulling, so why not let it do its job?

One time I was picked by the other tanks due to being the most geared. But really its just out of the 3 tanks who chooses to be the chosen one.

Unless people call it out is more of who takes the initiative and common sense bothgear wise and mechanic sense wise.

i generally don't care if i MT or not (should be mentality of all tanks)
i just ask in 8 man situation
in 4 man? i don't have much of a choice
9 times outta i 10 when i try to MT in 24 man have someone just spam there aggro combo and use Provoke/Ultimatrix when they can "no i must be the hero that tanks the boss" mentality
really just ask don't let this game suffer even more with lack of communication.

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Originally Posted by Duskane

i generally don't care if i MT or not (should be mentality of all tanks)
i just ask in 8 man situation
in 4 man? i don't have much of a choice
9 times outta i 10 when i try to MT in 24 man have someone just spam there aggro combo and use Provoke/Ultimatrix when they can "no i must be the hero that tanks the boss" mentality
really just ask don't let this game suffer even more with lack of communication.

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So true, sometimes however you have to communicate and let them know " If your going to tank tank properly otherwise let someone who KNOWS how to tank actually tank. I normally pretty kickback however when I take enmity with out even trying then there is something wrong there, give a call out and I over power based on that.

No one tanks. Cept the RDM, cuz in the past few 24 man raid runs all 3 tanks went dps mode, didnt wanna tank, asked them why the hell they quein as tank then? Obvious response "Faster Que"

So, RDM tank :D. Cuz why not, they can do everything else lol.....ahhh if only RDM had Phalanx.....

Eventually though one of the tanks decided to grow a backbone then tank. I swear, never gonna do 24 man as RDM or healer or other class again, just gonna go as Tank and tank all the bosses myself. Its ridiculous.

Seen this in lv 50 raids, seen it in the 60s, even seen it in the 70s. Ah well, its really good laughs, and I play this game for the lulz and the challenge.

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I swear, never gonna do 24 man as RDM or healer or other class again, just gonna go as Tank and tank all the bosses myself. Its ridiculous.

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Just use Diversion on a pull and then Lucid on CD. You have some of the best aggro management abilities, use them. I've seen a lot of RDMs who opened with all oGCDs in the first couple of seconds and no Diversion only to die from the first tankbuster.

Usually it's WAR > DRK > PLD
Enmity is directly tied to damage (1 damage = 1 enmity, unless skill has multiplier eg. Onslaught has 10) you make as well as WAR has tools like Unchained, highest damage potential and enmity tools like Onslaught with high enmity multipliers. Warrior is natural aggro generating machine and does is most feasibly.

DRK has DA Power Slash which generates more enmity than anything else (4840 aggro potency vs. Butcher 2100 and Rage 1890) in this game as well as DA Plunge and Dark Passenger which too are no way or shape bad now.

PLD on the other hand is the lackluster here. Circle of Scorn and Shield Swipe are very weak oGCD enmity tools (espesially latter because damage was nerfed but aggro wasn't buffed) and Rage of Halone is by far both weakest aggro combo out of 3 and punishes user far more than WAR using Butcher or DRK using Power.

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Originally Posted by Terkhev

While it's natural reaction, I'd say opposite should be the way to go. Outside of savage content, MT doesn't have to do anything. OT on the other hand needs to do some important mechanics in few fights, especially now with normal raids roulette.

Personally I try to adjust to sync and players. For example if I'm on lvl 50 WAR I'll try to MT because of no Deliverance and OT when I'm on DRK. If I see other tank(s) are PLD I'll pull.

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While it's true that the OT has to deal with mechanics that the MT doesn't, sometimes it's easier to OT if you're new to the encounter because it gives you a better sense of the fight and what's happening around you. Then when you MT it, you'll know exactly what to expect.