i'm really disappointed SE

Hi everyone..

This game is going down by the time they do new things..

DarkHold = CNJ ARC ARC ARC ARC ARC ARC GLA
Ifrit = CNJ CNJ THM THM THM THM THM GLA
Moogle = CNJ CNJ CNJ ARC ARC ARC GLA

so what about the rule of other classes?
Its because other classes is useless in there and wont be in any need at all
PUG : solo class wont help in any way
MRD: sometimes good tank
LNC : nothing to do with it at all ... on the way to be forgotten

Cant SE make better battle environments while doing other classes.. At least they have to give them some power + skills that will make the fight more enjoyable doing it with more than one DD :confused:

Actually it's because Jobs haven't released yet.

Classes are mainly for progression.

Jobs are more specific and will allow for more variety in party setups.

So be patient: 1.21 is weeks away.

well lnc is still useful on ifrit, in fact i outdamage all thms on ifrit as lnc thm is just easier its not the best DD

I don't understand. I was doing ifrit for the longest time as MRD DD and parsing same numbers with others, winning fights like any other setup. I've also done Darkhold as MRD a few times, filling a DD spot with no problems at all. Only done one moogle run, that was on MRD also. Sure, I couldn't bind but I parsed same numbers as the archers and didn't die once. Now I usually tank ifrit on MRD and DD on LNC since I finally got it to 50. I just feel that LNC is a bit more optimal for DDing on ifrit, but my MRD sure wasn't "useless" on the fights I did before. I'm pretty sure that PGL can do fine in the same DD spot I've been running in as MRD and LNC. It might not be the ideal for all situations but it sure isn't a game breaking disadvantage.

Learn the fights, learn your class, get to know people who do the same and you'll have no problems.

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Originally Posted by Rak_Boy

Moogle = CNJ CNJ CNJ ARC ARC ARC GLA

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You're missing one more Arc for Moogle. Also, (on my server anyway) it's more common to have 1 Thm and 2 Cnj. And Mrd is still better than Gld on Ifrit.

But aside from that I completely agree. Class stacking is old.

It's not SE who is stacking the classes, it's the community. One group manages to win a boss fight with a setup and everyone slavishly follows the same setup without trying anything else. And since class stacking is easy, it's usually what ends up being used on any fight.

There is nothing SE can really do to stop the players from stacking classes except for requiring a certain setup, which would just end up in a huge whine wave about our "freedom" being restricted.

There are alternative ways to beat the primals, mixed melee setup for moogle for example, but most people just follow the standard setup "because it works"

My LS has and does use all the classes on every endgame event and they work just fine. "Some" players are the ones that think it's "better" to stack classes, when other players realize the diversity is actually a good thing. For instance, Lancer in Darkhold is excellent against the ogre. Marauder is a good tank as well, depending on the dps balance of your party. Pugilist was actually really good on Ifrit too and we use them often against the moogles. They all have special things only they can do and each class can greatly benefit any of those fights in their own way as long as people know what they are doing.

Edit: Also if people actually use your suggested set ups in those fights, they are just making the fights too hard for themselves, honestly.

Class stacking happens, but I've done each of those fights with mrd, pugs, and lancers, albeit usually no more than one of each. It's doable, just difficult.

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Originally Posted by Rak_Boy

Hi everyone..

This game is going down by the time they do new things..

DarkHold = CNJ ARC ARC ARC ARC ARC ARC GLA
Ifrit = CNJ CNJ THM THM THM THM THM GLA
Moogle = CNJ CNJ CNJ ARC ARC ARC GLA

so what about the rule of other classes?
Its because other classes is useless in there and wont be in any need at all
PUG : solo class wont help in any way
MRD: sometimes good tank
LNC : nothing to do with it at all ... on the way to be forgotten

Cant SE make better battle environments while doing other classes.. At least they have to give them some power + skills that will make the fight more enjoyable doing it with more than one DD :confused:

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i done darkhold without everyone as arc lol and i done ifrit without everyone being THM but lancer and THM are still best i even done ifrit with mrd tank class are weak jobs have better role so i think it be ok when jobs come out.

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Originally Posted by Rak_Boy

Hi everyone..

This game is going down by the time they do new things..

DarkHold = CNJ ARC ARC ARC ARC ARC ARC GLA
Ifrit = CNJ CNJ THM THM THM THM THM GLA
Moogle = CNJ CNJ CNJ ARC ARC ARC GLA

so what about the rule of other classes?
Its because other classes is useless in there and wont be in any need at all
PUG : solo class wont help in any way
MRD: sometimes good tank
LNC : nothing to do with it at all ... on the way to be forgotten

Cant SE make better battle environments while doing other classes.. At least they have to give them some power + skills that will make the fight more enjoyable doing it with more than one DD :confused:

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Hang in there it will be better sooner then later :)

Also you can't blame SE all the time because even in ffxi people would want you this job or this sub vs this and that. due to the fact that people find this set up easy SE can't balance everything 100%. Sadly even if jobs do come out THM and Lancer would be better due to the fact that Pug can't get to close or they get hit and take a lot of DMG and arc get lock on to the mob and die but maybe SE would fix that :) can always hope.

btw i mean only after skill adjusment patch.. before patch it was no problem

I have one idea if its going to be good for it "or its already in plan" that some classes/jobs have different skills which will help in the fight... ex, PUG/MNK can do puch to stun , LNC/DRG can reduce its TP or increase party TP , slow blind poison..
but it should be spreaded to all classes .... it was good before the adjustments >_<

I dont agree with the people saying it is the communitys fault,

several years playing XI and class stacking was rarely seen.

If we take the moogle fight as an example, people take archers because they can do combos alot easier than melee who have to hit the correct side of a mob, which is difficult if the mob is moving around.

SE designed the fight with multiple mobs that are moving around alot, visa vie- fault of battle design (NOT the community)

i find it ironic that SE made combos proc when the correct face of a mob is hit and then introduce this kind of battle.

SE allways seem to give a good advantage to stacking one or another job..

and people allways say "well you CAN do it without stacking jobs"... yes we all know that, but that is missing the point,

the point is people are stacking jobs because of whatever advantage.


whatever the rhyme or reason it is getting really old by this point.. SE should try to stop it from happening, possibly by offering buffs to more diverse parties.

Arc stacking may disappear with the intrduction of the new jobs depending on whether or not they offer a better advantage than ARC's.. whether class stacking in general will disappear is another question.

Maybe SE should take a look at why job stacking wasnt prevelant in FFXI??

Such an Ignorant post.

Only people who are to lazy to figure these Fights out for themselves believe this kind of Elitest Spew.

Every Class is effective in every Fight.

PGL is great at Tanking Ifrit and can put out the most Damage on Moogle if done right. PGL also is best DD for Baatral because they pwn Skellies with ease and can tank them while doing it.

Lancer Out damages THM on ifrit constantly and By far does the Most damage on DH ogre.

Mrd can tank anything that GLA can and match most DDs in almost every fight.

Don't push this kind of Garbage on this community. Just because some setups have very simple mechanics does not make them the best. Do not perpetuate the FFXI DRK > ALL kind of bogus rumors in this community.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Such an Ignorant post.

Only people who are to lazy to figure these Fights out for themselves believe this kind of Elitest Spew.

Every Class is effective in every Fight.

PGL is great at Tanking Ifrit and can put out the most Damage on Moogle if done right. PGL also is best DD for Baatral because they pwn Skellies with ease and can tank them while doing it.

Lancer Out damages THM on ifrit constantly and By far does the Most damage on DH ogre.

Mrd can tank anything that GLA can and match most DDs in almost every fight.

Don't push this kind of Garbage on this community. Just because some setups have very simple mechanics does not make them the best. Do not perpetuate the FFXI DRK > ALL kind of bogus rumors in this community.

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not sure if this is directed at my post but dam.. maybe you should take up boxing to vent some of that anger lol..

but anyway, you kinda said alot without really saying much.. if you accept class stacking is a problem, which i find it hard to dispute, what do you propose?

maybe you can offer something usefull?

My opinion, stop having mobs that spam AOE every 5-15 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Such an Ignorant post.

Only people who are to lazy to figure these Fights out for themselves believe this kind of Elitest Spew.

Every Class is effective in every Fight.

PGL is great at Tanking Ifrit and can put out the most Damage on Moogle if done right. PGL also is best DD for Baatral because they pwn Skellies with ease and can tank them while doing it.

Lancer Out damages THM on ifrit constantly and By far does the Most damage on DH ogre.

Mrd can tank anything that GLA can and match most DDs in almost every fight.

Don't push this kind of Garbage on this community. Just because some setups have very simple mechanics does not make them the best. Do not perpetuate the FFXI DRK > ALL kind of bogus rumors in this community.

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MRD is a good tank my ls try it with ifrit the only issue is if one of the healers are down it going to be really hard to keep that MRD HP up. While GLA have more ways of keeping him/her self up and way to heal faster but if the healers are good players you take down ifrit faster due to the fact that MRD is doing over 10+k dmg vs GLA doing less :) so i agree every class is useful but people just want to do what works.

Already been said, people stack jobs. The debate of what class is better for what battle or what does more damage is useless as well. You personally might out damage another job on one run and think well, my PUG is the best DD. Even when the same player uses different jobs their level of "skill" in each job will not be the same. Like already stated people will be sheep and follow the path of least resistance. There are pros and cons of each job and the player not the battle environment make that job good or not in that instance. The jobs are balanced and working as they should imo. You can run 8 CNJ on Ifrit or use every job in the game and get a win. I've seen pickup parties finish Ifrit runs with the DD only taking damage from Hellfire and nothing else. Over time people will learn the fights on their own and not use the elitist strategy from 6 months ago.

It is all personal preference, Most of those builds are geared toward easy fight, as opposed to a hard one. It is more then possible and could even be more effective to have different parties, However if you look at the groups, You are talking about classes that have the most range to Avoid having to be too active in the battle. Stacking classes as stated earlier is a personal choice. All the fights can be won with the other classes. LNC's happen to be a very very damaging class. the OP stated they were gonna be forgotten.... That is a poor observation. It is all preference. Do whatever suits you. really blaming SE for player choices is a little much

I dont care whethers Its down to SE or down to the players..

But since we cant expect the players to change their ways it is down to the developers to try and change the way people are playing their game.

so.. SE should be the ones to try and stop class stacking (instead of encourageing it)... there has to be a million things they can do so it shouldnt that difficult.

so far i havent even seen them acknowledge it as a problem.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

It's not SE who is stacking the classes, it's the community. One group manages to win a boss fight with a setup and everyone slavishly follows the same setup without trying anything else. And since class stacking is easy, it's usually what ends up being used on any fight.

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I've been saying this exact thing every time this discussion comes up.

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Originally Posted by NotApplicable

I've been saying this exact thing every time this discussion comes up.

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Good luck pulling off a moogle speed run without 6 archers then. That's SE talking btw, not the community.

You'd pretty much need a miracle.

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Originally Posted by GreyJorildyn

Good luck pulling off a moogle speed run without 6 archers then. That's SE talking btw, not the community.

You'd pretty much need a miracle.

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Accepted. =o Will gather people this weekend to try it out...