Ability Leveling Suggestion

I really enjoy this game, but I feel that some further character customization/development is nessecary.

Most MMORPG's have some form of "talent tree" or "speciality":
(Aion - Stigma System, Wow - Gylphs + Talent Trees, Dragon Nest - Skill Tree, Rift - Skill Tree)

So, a feature i think that could fit in nicely in FFXIV would be a leveling system for skills or for materia.
(Skills have their own levels and become stronger with xp earnt)

Perhaps something similar to FFVII's materia system.

Given how little a difference stat's make at present, it would be nice if we had something extra to seprate the freshly dinged 50 from the veterans.

Everything that is currently being implemented end game, is simply obtained, and then discarded for the next upgrade. It would be nice if we had something to do on the long term that showed character growth.

Perhaps even if we had to pick and choose which abilities we wanted to master to optimize class customization.

Further skill development is dire if this game is going to have PvP implemented.

One of the main reason's i play MMORPG's over offline console games, is class individuality.
(I.E - Multiple choices in character development, Strengths with Weaknesses, Unpredictable PvP ect)

I liked the freedom we had before with picking and choosing/defining our roles with cross class abilities (even if half of those abilties sucked), but now, most abiltiies are class specific and don't allow a great deal of customization.

At current, most end game development is more Disciples of Hand focused. I think we need something inbetween all the crafting and primal weapons to work on.

I'm curious as to what the Dev's have planned and also what the community thinks.

http://skippercc.com/fabulous6.gif

All skill trees are is an additional grind (ohoho, people think MMOs are free of grinds right?) when in reality XIV's auto leveling into skills is the exact same, you're just not grinding to level 1 skill in order to unlock another branch of skills, then to power them up. Skills scale with level in XIV as is, so a talent tree would be kind of redundant.

With the addition of Jobs soon, it is a fair bit redundant to want this kind of system ontop of it. Also, no stats don't make "a little difference", no one's gotten down the stat caps and diminishing returns yet since we have base stats of 200+ which means you need a lot more bonus stats to see a real increase versus in FFXI where you had 80 STR and + 140 str in your WS setup that showed an obvious difference.

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Originally Posted by Brigandier

http://skippercc.com/fabulous6.gif

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This is the best gif I have ever seen in my whole life...

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Originally Posted by Elexia

All skill trees are is an additional grind (ohoho, people think MMOs are free of grinds right?) when in reality XIV's auto leveling into skills is the exact same, you're just not grinding to level 1 skill in order to unlock another branch of skills, then to power them up. Skills scale with level in XIV as is, so a talent tree would be kind of redundant.

With the addition of Jobs soon, it is a fair bit redundant to want this kind of system ontop of it. Also, no stats don't make "a little difference", no one's gotten down the stat caps and diminishing returns yet since we have base stats of 200+ which means you need a lot more bonus stats to see a real increase versus in FFXI where you had 80 STR and + 140 str in your WS setup that showed an obvious difference.

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It's not the same. Skill trees generally mean your class has to choose a path. You normally sacrifice one or two paths to specialize in one. A.K.A - White Mage - Specialise in healing but do less damage with elemental spells.

In FFXIV, you can use every skill without having to give up anything.
Slot cost isn't really an issue given that most abilities are class specific.

FFXIV just needs something more class defining. Every job will be pretty much be indentical, which in my opinion, makes the game much more stale. (EG. That WHM has the exact same spells as my WHM)

Awesome gif btw Brigandier.

*uses this thread to push evil agenda!*

I would be looking forward to something like this too. Whether it be small potency boosts in our abilities, reduced TP and MP costs, shortened cooldowns, increased duration of buffs and debuffs, increased chance to land the debuff effect of an attack, etc.

Jobs are going to be our specializations of classes.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

*uses this thread to push evil agenda!*

I would be looking forward to something like this too. Whether it be small potency boosts in our abilities, reduced TP and MP costs, shortened cooldowns, increased duration of buffs and debuffs, increased chance to land the debuff effect of an attack, etc.

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Ironically enough, all of that could come from gear (like AF gear for example) and better weapons/materia and native abilities (take a look at some of XI's abilities and gear) if they show enough care for it..doesn't necessarily need a 3rd skill system ontop of everything.

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Originally Posted by Avraym

In FFXIV, you can use every skill without having to give up anything.
Slot cost isn't really an issue given that most abilities are class specific.

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You seem to fail to understand the system, because your statement is completely incorrect. Are attempting to tell us that Cure loses mothing going from CNJ to MRD? SS loses damage mitigation. Protect loses its physical effectiveness as well as its elemental resistance addition when cross classes...etc

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Originally Posted by Eldaena

Jobs are going to be our specializations of classes.

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^^This^^

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Originally Posted by Coglin

You seem to fail to understand the system, because your statement is completely incorrect. Are attempting to tell us that Cure loses mothing going from CNJ to MRD? SS loses damage mitigation. Protect loses its physical effectiveness as well as its elemental resistance addition when cross classes...etc



^^This^^

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Obviously using the classes spells with that class will be more effective, thats a no brainer.

What i'm saying is, implement something to differentiate one WHM from another.

Or at the very least, a talent tree.

MMORPG's are all about customization. More options is always a good thing.

The biggest problem with such a system is that everyone will, eventually, go for the 'template' setup - as in, choosing skills that will most benefit a character rather than go for individuality - so in the end, you will have, say, 90% of the entire WHM population choose specific set of skills while the other 10% will not, and because they don't, people will not take them/choose them to go to raids. Other MMOs solve this problem by allowing multiple characters, but because FFXIV can be played with one, such a system will cause imbalance between the population.

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Originally Posted by Stanislaw

The biggest problem with such a system is that everyone will, eventually, go for the 'template' setup - as in, choosing skills that will most benefit a character rather than go for individuality - so in the end, you will have, say, 90% of the entire WHM population choose specific set of skills while the other 10% will not, and because they don't, people will not take them/choose them to go to raids. Other MMOs solve this problem by allowing multiple characters, but because FFXIV can be played with one, such a system will cause imbalance between the population.

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This is why Blizzard butchered the skill trees in WoW - everybody used certain templates, making the trees themselves largely irrelevant to everyone except those who like unusual setups and roleplayers. I really don't want to see anything that even remotely resembles a skill/talent tree in this game.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

This is why Blizzard butchered the skill trees in WoW - everybody used certain templates, making the trees themselves largely irrelevant to everyone except those who like unusual setups and roleplayers. I really don't want to see anything that even remotely resembles a skill/talent tree in this game.

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They are reforming them in the new expansion to be more relevant and diverese. From the look of it, there is no longer "the best path". EG: One build is ideal for Solo DPS, another for Party dps and another for survival (PVP). Each path also gives unique skills/spells that only that path can obtain.

What suggestion do you have for skill customization?

Or do you think the current system and job system is enough (Every WHM has more or less the same spells and build as me (Hello there predictable PVP!))

I don't agree, one thing that is different in xiv the same as in xi, is the fact that you can play every class and have all abilities. If you go down the skill tree path you will need multiple characters which is something I don't want, I like being able to do everything with the one character.

Eventually I would guess the specialization is what sits on your bar as you will not be able to fit everything on your bar as it only allows 30 abilities.

Also the main point of jobs is for specialisation of the class, as said.

This discussion actually came up in LS chat earlier... because the extent of the "variety" between your CNJ and my CNJ is that your cure might happen to restore about 100 more hp than mine.

What we came up with was basically that no matter how finely you balance a chart there will always be a better choice--if not overall, then for individual situations. If anything, a tree of this sort should not make any part of your character better or worse; rather, they should simply serve to make a character more suited to your playstyle. For example, rather than having slow, high damage nukes, someone might be able to make their BLM/THM have faster, lesser nukes, so long as they end at the same DPS. A melee character might swing faster for less damage--but these would be incredibly difficult to balance as well...

By the time we reached this, though, we realized that we really weren't describing skill trees anymore, but things that the job system could accomplish. Faster, lower hits? Thief. Slower, higher hits? DRK. Etc.

So no, I think that what others have said holds--the job system might be small at the moment, but we have to hope that when(/if) they add more jobs/classes, your concerns about uniformity will be taken care of.

Although considering the direction that the game is taking, it seems like things are going away from that level of customization.

Removal of Physical Levels. Which I imagine was meant to be the specialization of sorts, rather than folks constantly switching classes and wanting to optimize for each class.

Removal of guildmark use and possibly consolidation of all guildmarks ~ which was kind of that additional investment scheme going on.

Heavy-duty overhaul of our class actions down to the 15 we have with lots of exclusive incentives and reduced cross classing incentives, especially on weapon skills. Throw in 5 more for jobs. And that *may* even be what we have until 2.0.

I feel we're going more toward "everybody is the same" with only playstyle and gear to separate us for the time.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

I feel we're going more toward "everybody is the same" with only playstyle and gear to separate us for the time.

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I agree. And as someone with a short attention span, I hope don't find the gameplay stale after some time has passed.

Part of the things i enjoyed about mmorpgs is the diversity.

Everyone says cross classing abilities is fine, but as a primary disciple of magic user, only having a small hand of skills which barely complement the other, its not enough for me personally.

I'm optimistic jobs will bring diversity, but would be dissapointed if this was as far as it went.