Scattering Scions [Spoilers]

Spoiler discussion below....

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So as the storyline progress, we constantly see members of the Scion leave the Scions through different reasons....

Moenbryda - sacrifice herself to power the weapon we need to kill a Ascion.

Minfilia - Became a Demi-Goddess to save the Warriors of Darkness world thus can never return from that world.

Papalymo - Sacrifice himself to slow down Shinryu

Lyse/Yda - retired from the Scion so she can act as the leader of the Ala Mhigo resistance which currently act as Police force to keep order as Ala Mhigo rebuilds.


Who do you think is next to leave the Scions as the story goes on in 5.0?

For me I can only guess it may be either Thancred or Y'shtola since bother of them have shown signs of physical issues.

Thancred can no longer teleport due to his aether being unbalanced since the events of 2.55 which would mean if he is stuck in any place about to be destroyed with only means to escape is teleporting out of there then he will die.

Y'shtola has already been mentioned to be slowly dying now due to her choice of using a technique that drains her life.

I would assume Krile but she may be our NPC that gives us access into Sharlayan in the later storyline if 5.0 does not include Sharlayan.

My personal theory is that they wanted to remove all those rather "weak" 1.0 characters from the story to add some of their own. Not including Moenbryda, all the characters that left us - Minfilia, Papalymo and Yda - were more stereotypes than "real" characters. Or at least that was always my impression of them - I never felt a connection to any of those 3 because there is nothing to feel connected to. They have very little character, no personal struggle, that I could have really cared about. The first time I cared about Yda was when she revealed that she was indeed Lyse and didnt want to uphold that masquared any longer.

If my theory is correct, I dont blame anyone for writing an end for those characters (which also serves as an "We're really at war and need to make sacrfices!")

With that in mind:
I can only see Thancred go, if anyone. They've invested in his character-development, at least a little, and he matured from the stereotypical Cassanova he was presetend to me in ARR.

Y'shtola is our postergirl, I'm not sure if they would retire her.

I obviously have no proof for my theory, but following that I wouldnt use the "physical weakness" that Thancred and Y'shtola are showing as argument for them to leave/die - quite the contrarary, actually! They got those weak points as character traits to make them more intresting and give them problems to deal with (up to you to decide for yourself if that worked or not...)

I think most of the characters we have now, are far better and more intresting than 2.0 Yda, Papalymo and yes, Minfilia. So if someone gets killed off, it would be more like Haurchefaunt - someone we have an emotional connection to.
Y'shtola is probably safe, thanks to being the face of FFXIV.
Thancred... at least I can say that I would need a lot more screentime with him before I would really care about his death.
A more likely candidat for me would be either Alphinaud or Alisae - we've traveled quite a bit with both them, got to know them and added bonus: If only one of the twins dies, we get to see the pain of the other one. Okay, that came out wrong... my point is: either of those deaths would be far more emotional than Thancred.

Bottomline:
I believe the old Scions needed to make room for new, more original characters and thats why they died/left. Now that they're out of the picture we'll see only/more "emotional-meanigful" deaths (if we see any).

The New Avengers Scions movie, when?

Starring Arenvald as the leader of a new generation of heroes to defend Hydaelyn against the primal threat and other Ascian shenanigans, with cameo appearances by everyone's favourite silent superhero.

*nods in approval*

The Scions are some of the characters for who the 1.0 to 2.0 transition was very detrimental to their character arcs. For everyone playing the game since 2.0 there was never a good opportunity for SE to develop them as characters in the MSQ. It really doesn't help that some of the scenes that feature the Scions the most in 1.0 and 2.0 are in the starting cities and you only get to see one set of those per play-though.

I've gone and watched the 1.0 starting-city cutscenes on YouTube and it really helps develop who the Scions are and what they were doing before the Calamity. Minfilia probably is the most improved as the Ul'dah cutscense go into a lot of detail regarding who she is and what her relationship with Thancred and F'lahmin was like. Yda/Lyse and Papalymo are a bit different as for various reasons, that isn't Lyse we're seeing for most of the Gridania cut-scenes, it's the real Yda.

The other character who gets shafted from 1.0 to 2.0 is Cid. In 2.0, his reason for helping out the Scions and making sure people can't get to dangerous technology isn't gone into in that much detail. I mean, 4.4 is the next patch and we're just barely getting some idea with the Omega story why messing with advanced tech bothers him so much. The patches between 1.0 and 2.0 go into what his motivations are and why he's done with Garlemald. It goes a long way in explaining why Jessie and Nero are so frustrated with him over the course of the Omega story.

You do see SE take two approaches with the characters from 1.0. Most of them (city-state leaders, Urianger, Thancred, Y'shtola, Cid, etc.) get more development eventually and probably aren't going to be going anywhere soon. The others, like the other Scions, are slowly getting phased out (character death/character reveal).

I really don't think they are going to off them but they may just have remaining ones move on while others fill their place? I mean the Scions, at least to me, were like sorta neutral. They helped each city state with the problems of the Primals while trying (at least) to forge a piece with the Beast Tribes. With them gone it would feel sort of weird. Not to mention it would just be the whacky adventures of WoL plus one.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

My personal theory is that they wanted to remove all those rather "weak" 1.0 characters from the story to add some of their own. Not including Moenbryda, all the characters that left us - Minfilia, Papalymo and Yda - were more stereotypes than "real" characters. Or at least that was always my impression of them - I never felt a connection to any of those 3 because there is nothing to feel connected to. They have very little character, no personal struggle, that I could have really cared about. The first time I cared about Yda was when she revealed that she was indeed Lyse and didnt want to uphold that masquared any longer.

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Yda and Papalymo weren't really developed characters individually, but they worked well as a pair - I liked their banter. Lyse on her own seems to have very little of her previous personality and I find it hard to connect them as the same person, even as I'm replaying ARR and aware of it.

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Originally Posted by SicariusSeven

Not to mention it would just be the whacky adventures of WoL plus one.

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It is eventually going to become that way once Season 1 storyline ends and we enter Season 2 storyline. Yoshi-P did say years ago that he does plan to end the Season 1 storyline (aka Zodiark Arc) within FF14 lifespan and continue with a new storyline after so it is expected that the Scions begin to split off overtime as we get closer to the end of the Season 1 storyline to make room for new companions in Season 2 storyline and to provide a reason why the WoL is no longer part of the Scions once Season 1 storyline end and a new journey begins with Season 2 storyline



For what the planned Season 2 storyline may hold we do not know yet since we have yet to reach the conclusion of the Zodiark Arc (aka Season 1 storyline) but it does feel close since now we are down to only 2 of the original Scions left being Thancred, and Y'shtola and it seems the war against the Garlean Empire maybe concluding in 5.X.

Can't really count Tataru since she is always acting as the manager of the Scion's organization and most likely will stay after Season 1 storyline ends so the Scion Organization have someone to manage all the taxes, trading, and connections.

I can only assume the Season 2 storyline is going to be a completely new storyline that still acknowledge Season 1 storyline events but made so it does not feel to be a direct sequel/continuation to Season 1 storyline since by then Zodiark and the Ascians should be all gone in Season 2 and the long war against the Garlean Empire ended by then.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Arenvald did not formally leave the Scions like Lyse did during the end of Stormblood. So he might be involved in future battles as a Scion when Alphinaud is probably involved one way or another.

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Originally Posted by RokkuEkkusu

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that Arenvald did not formally leave the Scions like Lyse did during the end of Stormblood. So he might be involved in future battles as a Scion when Alphinaud is probably involved one way or another.

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Arendvald never left the Scions. He was separated from the main group after the Crystal Braves incident but he was still a Scion, and he's definitely still a Scion after 4.1.

It's not just that Arenvald hasn't left the Scions, he's specifically said he doesn't want to as that's the first place he's ever had a purpose in life. Unlike Lyse, he doesn't have any good memories associated with the Ala Mhigans and he has very little reason to stay in Gyr Abania. The reason he's currently still there is because Fordola is there and he's one of the few people who can empathize with being caught in the middle between being Garlean and not being Garlean.

Why is no one mentioning another remaining Scion, Urangier? He's still running the Walking Sands last we saw. I know he's more of a researcher, but we did get to see how powerful his magic is during the Dark Warrior quests especially at the end of that arc.

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For what the planned Season 2 storyline may hold we do not know yet since we have yet to reach the conclusion of the Zodiark Arc (aka Season 1 storyline) but it does feel close since now we are down to only 2 of the original Scions left being Thancred, and Y'shtola and it seems the war against the Garlean Empire maybe concluding in 5.X.

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Sad thing is... that's true.

There was the attack at the Waking Sands which killed off most of the Scions, where most of them were killed off and only a handful escaped... and then Moenbryda who gave her life for us. Which I think was the real turning point for the Scions luck to take a turn for the worst. And almost immediately afterwards, the Scions were all scattered after the Crystal Braves betrayal and so it left us with just 3 Scions left.

And while we were able to gather most of them back together, it does seem that we are slowly losing people again. After getting Y'shtola and Thancred back, it looked like we were going to be able to reunite everyone until discovering what happened to Minfilia. Now, it may not be completely late for her. She did promise that she would one day return... but that is far far off into the future, if it ever happens. And then we never found out what happened to Papalymo. I know that it's most likely that he's dead, but we never found his body. So you know the saying. No body... most likely not dead. I mean, we never even found the staff yet. And why go through all the trouble with that staff only to lose it here and never see it again?

Papalymo is most likely dead in my eyes. But, knowing SE, it's not impossible that some part of him may still be out there.

All in all, I think that Lyse is very lucky to have escaped the Scions with her life and is free to rebuild her homeland. She's left the Scions, but at least we know she's still alive and we can go talk to her whenever we want.

So... out of all of that.

We have Thancred
Y'shtola
Alisaie
Alphinaud
Tataru
Urianger
Krile

And we have minor Scions like Arenvald... and maybe honorary Scions like Yugiri. A Scion in all but name.

So, out of this list, I don't think we need to worry about the twins leaving us anytime soon. And Tataru seems unlikely to go due to her popularity with the fanbase. Y'shtola almost died before because of Zenos, but I wouldn't count her out of the woods yet for something else tragic happening to her. I think that Thancred will be playing some important role in 5.0. Whether or not something happens to him, is anyone's guess. The Lifestream sure seemed to have taken a toll on him, and not just physically... but it seems almost emotionally and mentally as well. He's just not the same cheerful person we once knew... but that could be because of what happened to Minfilia.

I don't know... but it seems to me that something is building up for Thancred. He is going into dangerous territory without any magic or a way to teleport out of trouble. So it could be that the reason we head off into the Empire is for a chance to rescue him and maybe Alphinaud?

As for Y'shtola? Yes, even Matoya mentions that she's pushing herself too far. She's slowly killing herself by sensing the aether around her to 'see'. It's almost like she doesn't care what happens to her. So, think that something will happen to her after she discovers a new reason to want to keep going. A reason to live... only to have that snatched away from her. Sad... but almost scary appropriate for her.

Also, this whole adventure through Eorzea is only supposed to be season 1? And that there will be a season 2 where the WoL leaves the Scions? Do you have a link where I could check out that interview or something? I really want to read it now?

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Originally Posted by ClaireFaye

Also, this whole adventure through Eorzea is only supposed to be season 1? And that there will be a season 2 where the WoL leaves the Scions? Do you have a link where I could check out that interview or something? I really want to read it now?

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Can't really find it now since it was around 2 to 3 years ago when this question was asked back in Heavensward about what Yoshi-P has planned once Zodiark Arc storyline (aka Season 1) is over and if FF14 may end with no more expansion and updates once Zodiark and Ascians are defeated at the end of this story arc.

All Yoshi-P said no and FF14 will continue after Zodiark and Ascians are defeated with a brand new storyline.

I am curious how they will handle the transition from Zodiark Arc (season 1) into the Season 2 storyline though since so far we know they are dealing with the Scions slowly as Season 1 progress but to introduce Season 2 as a new storyline without it being a direct continuation/sequel to Season 1 storyline will be tricky unless they plan to erase everyone's memory of the WoL as the Warrior of Light but only keep the parts that people remember of WoL was his Adventurer life such as the DoW/DoM Storylines, beast tribes, and etc.

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Originally Posted by Rosa_Frandlia

Why is no one mentioning another remaining Scion, Urangier? He's still running the Walking Sands last we saw. I know he's more of a researcher, but we did get to see how powerful his magic is during the Dark Warrior quests especially at the end of that arc.

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Hard to consider him to leave the Scions anytime when he basically is the Scion's organization Librarian that Ninja his way in and out of the storyline once in a while for plot convenience. Most likely he may stay with the Scions after Season 1 storyline ends acting as a senior member with Tataru.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Yda and Papalymo weren't really developed characters individually, but they worked well as a pair - I liked their banter. Lyse on her own seems to have very little of her previous personality and I find it hard to connect them as the same person, even as I'm replaying ARR and aware of it.

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Oh yeah, I agree with them working well as a pair - if I'm not mistaken thats kinda in the style of some sort of japanese comedy-duo-trope or something like that? At least thats some analysis/information a friend shared with me once when we had a conversation about the quality of 1.0-Scion-Characters.
I assume that specially people who started in Gridania and got Yda and Papalymo as their guardians might have really liked them as a pair and were more able to overlook that indivdually they were both lacking.

Think they need to add some new ones to replace the lost ones. I would support Godbert, Hildibrand, and Greg if they was added as new scions.

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Originally Posted by Annana

Arendvald never left the Scions. He was separated from the main group after the Crystal Braves incident but he was still a Scion, and he's definitely still a Scion after 4.1.

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Specifically, he's one of the group that stayed behind at the Waking Sands when the main base of operations was moved to Mor Dhona. (He's definitely still there in post-ARR, as I just checked on my alt character, and I think he remains there throughout Heavensward/Stormblood as well but I can't be sure.)

Also Urianger won't be leaving the Waking Sands any time soon either, as he gives out the EX primal sidequests that can be taken up at any point. So from a game-programming point I'm not sure if they can ever permanently move him elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Think they need to add some new ones to replace the lost ones. I would support Godbert, Hildibrand, and Greg if they was added as new scions.

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I can't see any of them working (literally or figuratively) as Scions. Godbert is an ally - and surprisingly used as a serious character in his MSQ appearances - but I don't think he's suited to being an actual member of the Scions. Meanwhile, Hildibrand just seems too.... outside of the reality of the rest of the game, and best used sparingly. I think it would be detrimental to the plot to have him there in the MSQ. Let him remain in his side plot.


If any additional existing characters are going to join the Scions, I'd guess Estinien.

Gotta keep in mind that a number of these characters appear in sidestories (Alisae (and I believe Alphinaud too) in the Bahamut quests for example)

Unless the quest level is an indicator of it's placement in the timeline, it could mess with some people's heads if they visit these older quests at a later point.
"What? but you died! I've seen you die! Why aren't you acknowledging that you came back from the dead?!!?"

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Originally Posted by hynaku

Think they need to add some new ones to replace the lost ones. I would support Godbert, Hildibrand, and Greg if they was added as new scions.

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So Hildy and Greg as the new comic relief and useless members(respectively), and Godbert as the even-better-then-a-WoL for when we retire? Seriously, he's more dangerous armed with just a jewelers scope in his underwear then we are decked out of full BiS armor and weaponry.

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Originally Posted by Ing-Dono

Gotta keep in mind that a number of these characters appear in sidestories (Alisae (and I believe Alphinaud too) in the Bahamut quests for example)

Unless the quest level is an indicator of it's placement in the timeline, it could mess with some people's heads if they visit these older quests at a later point.
"What? but you died! I've seen you die! Why aren't you acknowledging that you came back from the dead?!!?"

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If i recall correctly, the official line is that all quests take place at the point in the timeline that they were released(patch x.y) - regardless of how much later you may actually get to them. The level 50 CUL class quest involves making dishes for a banquet whos guest of honor had a little misfortune a couple patches later. There were certainly some players who didnt finish leveling their crafters until after that point in the MSQ, and they had a similar experience to what you describe.

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Originally Posted by Ing-Dono

Unless the quest level is an indicator of it's placement in the timeline, it could mess with some people's heads if they visit these older quests at a later point.
"What? but you died! I've seen you die! Why aren't you acknowledging that you came back from the dead?!!?"

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As Frizze said, yes, quest level does seem to be an indicator of where the quest falls in the timeline.

An early and particularly interlinked example: Lv15 quests in western La Noscea.

• The MSQ sends you to Sastasha.
• A chain of sidequests starting at Aleport docks sends you to run errands at Skull Valley and concludes with dialogue indicating you're just about to go into Sastasha.
• A sidequest in Aleport deals with a smuggler who's been training coeurls and jackals for the pirates to use as guard animals, but some of the coeurls have been running wild.
• The Lv15 marauder quest sends you to slay a coeurl that's been on the loose in western La Noscea.
• The Lv15 arcanist and rogue quests both encounter slave-trader pirates docked in Aleport.

On the actual question of visiting old quests at a later point, they do remain set in their place in the timeline, and even if nobody dies there can still be jarring things in there.

The ARR dragoon questline is a big one, because it is absolutely set pre-Heavensward, and you haven't met Estinien yet (even if you have). Also the singular Eye of Nidhogg is back to being purely an Ishgardian relic, and in Estinien's possession.

It doesn't even need to be about characters. The ARR monk quests are also set in that period, with talk of Ala Mhigo being under Garlean rule.

(Meanwhile, given this logic, reaching the Lv50 machinist quest after completing the Vault was.... well, it's a tournament between High House knights at Camp Dragonhead, and someone ought to be there at that chronological point...)

I'm of the opinion that if after the Ascians arc is done and there is a possibility the remaining Scions go their separate ways for one reason or another, then the main story NPCs afterwards should involve the Job NPCs more. Giving the opportunity for unique dialogues and events depending on how well acquainted you are with them. For example, if during an event you need someone to do espionage, get either Jack or Oboro, who will have unique things to say and maybe even scenes of you're a Ninja. Have the MSQ and the Job stories integrate more with each other and such.
I still believe Estinien was one of the more well developed NPCs they made and his story in HW was made more elaborate if you had done the Dragoon story at that point.

I still think that Minfilia will appear in the future

I liked Minfillia, and would like to see her return, either as the Word of the Mother or herself.

I think it's quite likely we'll run into Minfilia again, but I think her time as a major character is over and done with, for good. I attribute this largely to negative fan reaction to the character; Minfilia as a "useless" Scion was a meme both in the Eastern and Western fandoms, and so the writers took steps to write the unpopular character out of the narrative. I was personally disappointed by the decision; I thought she deserved better, but I guess SE did what they felt they had to do. Like Wesley Crusher from Star Trek: The Next Generation, she's ascended to a higher plane of existence, into a place of importance but very little direct influence on the storyline.

(I did feel that a bit of dialogue that appeared later, where the reunited Scions meet to determine who the new Antecedent will be, and eventually decide that they're fine on their own and don't need an Antecedant at all, was a bit mean-spirited. Even the other Scions think that Minfilia was useless, right?)

I took it more that no one was interested in taking Minfilia's job right then and there. The other Scions each have their own niche and if they stop doing it, no one else will do it. It also could have seemed like the person who decided to take her place thought they were better then Minfilia at it and clearly the Scions didn't think anyone but Minfilia should have been the Anticedent instead when she was a live.

It's also a sign of growth for the Scions as a whole. They've all matured since we first saw them in 2.0 and do a lot less arguing among themselves about what they're going to do now. They don't need a neutral party to make a decision about what to do next.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

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Alphinaud seem to have take Minfilia's job involving the political aspect of the Scion's quite well. Yes, he is quite young but his talent falls more into politics rather than combat and politics is deadly and tricky game the Scion's must play if they want to win over allies or convience enemies to become allies.

A single misstep can be costly in politics even judging a person by their age as it can easily be turned against a person to be biased towards things which is a bad reputation to have in politics.