What happened to Parry? [dev 1206]

I just checked again and only parried 6 out of 200 attacks from a level 55 Doblyn.

Am i missing something? Has anyone managed to boost thier parry rate significantly?

I would expect 301 DEX and +33 Parry to allow me parry more than i happen to evade wearing zero plus evasion. Oh wait... thats +41 Parry with the +8 from the MRD trait. Is this wopping +8 supposed to mean something?

This is pretty agrovating to me and i cant believe its working as intended. What worries me more is i get the feeling most people with MRD leveled really dont care. Does anyone care?

I haven't noticed any discussion about this anywhere so felt the need to begin to maybe get a bit vocal about it here.

MRD extraordinary parry was due Steadfast. With the level difference between you and the mob and without steadfast, parry rate was expected to be very low now since probably the 5 lv lower than the mob is more impacting than the dex bonus. Also, i heard ppl is considering an attribute cap for dmg in ~280...if this confirms, it might be the cap for the rest too (assumption based on attribute impact to damage topic somewhere here).

And yep, i do care...but i just don't feel like discussing much anymore since this single-target sissy with foam axe is neither the MRD i learned to play nor the one i loved. It's just a FFXI WAR wannabe.

I am well aware of the parry boost that came along with steadfast. Its not like we had parry materia back then either. What in the world was the numerical value of + parry from steafast? Plus six hundred? Plus three hundred percent? Come on, its not even close now. Parry trait with +8? Am i supposed to be looking forward to an additional +10 parry trait at level 62?

So you're not interested in a frontal cone AoE with a 10 second cool down that procs off of parry? Overpower is the AoE we're missing. Half of mauraders AoE capacity is based on parry! You dont add a second parry weaponskill and move provoke from gladiator to marauder and then tell me this low parry rate is working as intended.

I should not expect parry to take a dive like it has, Lienn. "It just sux now n that sux" is not what im trying to hear <_< lol

When sentinel was removed and shields block rate adjusted, every gladiator cried out in unison "WTF". Where are the marauders that give a damn?

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Originally Posted by pilot

I am well aware of the parry boost that came along with steadfast. Its not like we had parry materia back then either. What in the world was the numerical value of + parry from steafast? Plus six hundred? Plus three hundred percent? Come on, its not even close now. Parry trait with +8? Am i supposed to be looking forward to an additional +10 parry trait at level 62?

So you're not interested in a frontal cone AoE with a 10 second cool down that procs off of parry? Overpower is the AoE we're missing. Half of mauraders AoE capacity is based on parry! You dont add a second parry weaponskill and move provoke from gladiator to marauder and then tell me this low parry rate is working as intended.

I should not expect parry to take a dive like it has, Lienn. "It just sux now n that sux" is not what im trying to hear <_< lol

When sentinel was removed and shields block rate adjusted, every gladiator cried out in unison "WTF". Where are the marauders that give a damn?

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Well, IMO it will be exactly like happened to GLA...they changed it and that's ir...not reverting it anymore. But here you will have less crying because the game is being tuned in a way where only ARC, GLA and mages will be needed. In a manaburn world there is no space for the dude with foam axe.

Also, it's not like overpower would make any difference in the current class setup...you have the parry action meant to be used against clusters of mobs, but you don't have the way to lure them to the cone AoE anymore. I think most of people actually is waiting right now because WAR is right around the corner and they promissed some additional balancing somewhere between 1.21 and 1.22 for both jobs and classes...maybe they have something planned for WAR regarding parry since, unless the new WS have 3000 TP (probably will.../facepalm) it can take the empty spot left by storm path.

IMO we should just wait 1.21 for now. Maybe the parry rate drop was planned exactly because was balanced based on features that aren't ingame still, like AFs and jub-specific traits.

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I think most of people actually is waiting right now because WAR is right around the corner and they promissed some additional balancing somewhere between 1.21 and 1.22 for both jobs and classes...

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The point here is to not wait quietly. Its been far too quiet regarding this.

The other half of it is the damage mitigation we're losing out on. We have provoke now and parry as it stands is a wet noodle. It just doesnt make any sense. I evade as much as i parry with ZERO +evasion.

Has anyone played with materia to boost dex and or parry higher than what i mentioned in the OP? I am not very optimistic when several double melds are not cutting it keeping in mind the game was balanced around single materia melded gear.

I've had a set of gauntlets with +46/+47 parry made, as far as it goes just eyeballing it seems like there's a slight increase in parry, but nothing to make your panties wet over. Haven't done any hard testing on it since, like was said, ARC/GLA/Mage are the go-to classes at the moment. MRD gets very little love but can be utilized in a off-tank role for 2nd Moogle phase, and can put out a pretty good amount of damage.

Yeah, I agree with pilot. I had a pair of +40 parry before 1.20 and I was able to partial parry ifrit about 15-20% of the time. But recently I tried tanking ifrit, the % is more around 8%.

Not to mention the lack of parrying against mobs at natalan, I think that even my lancer parries more.

SE, please fix parry!

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Originally Posted by Lienn

Well, IMO it will be exactly like happened to GLA...they changed it and that's ir...not reverting it anymore. But here you will have less crying because the game is being tuned in a way where only ARC, GLA and mages will be needed. In a manaburn world there is no space for the dude with foam axe.

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And this doesn't concern you at all... how? If you're referring to something like a spirtbonding party it would seem in the current patch that manaburn is the most efficient way but I doubt in the coming patches it will always be this way. With introductions of BLM/WHM and modified statistics for each I think we'll see much more of the paper thing defense mage and more of the heavy geared WAR/MRD/GLA/PLD style of playing.

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Also, it's not like overpower would make any difference in the current class setup...you have the parry action meant to be used against clusters of mobs, but you don't have the way to lure them to the cone AoE anymore.

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OK.. couple things here.

There are plenty of ways a Marauder can move mobs to look at him. Single mob would be Taunt which has the mob attack you for 5-6 seconds or at least enough to parry an attack from it. Pair that with the initial Provoke and you should have plenty of hate to hold a single mob for anyone to get setup or for the GLA to get into position somewhere or whatever.

And I suppose you might also be forgetting that you can equip Sentinel, Rampart, and Flash as Marader. Of course there it will carry less hate than a like Gladiator's use, but they are all still viable options for crowd control.

Pair that with Rampage, Storm's Path, Keen Flurry, and Whirlwind, with the rest of the actions sprinkled about and you've got yourself a viable crowd controller with high ATK (provided they do not move or keep enduring march active while doing so) as each attack against the MRD while in that state will increase their attack power, speed, and HP absorbed.. to a so far undetermined amount.

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I think most of people actually is waiting right now because WAR is right around the corner and they promissed some additional balancing somewhere between 1.21 and 1.22 for both jobs and classes...maybe they have something planned for WAR regarding parry since, unless the new WS have 3000 TP (probably will.../facepalm) it can take the empty spot left by storm path.

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If you cannot find a way to properly play MRD in it's current state then I don't know what to tell you. Leaning on past weaponskills in a system that does not support it any longer is wasting your time. Lancer lost all it's piercing attacks except Doomspike in the path 1.2 and I'm still doing fine. React, adapt, prevail.

The biggest issue here is how it's not given the proper attention... even though it is the STAPLE of the Marauder build and two WSs proc off of it. Let's put this into perspective for those who don't follow. Let's say Block Rate (that which is effect by two stats.. DEX and the block rating itself.. ahem) had the same effect that increases in Parry had. Imagine the outroar as piles of equipment and abilities are rendered useless because the curve for increase vs. effects wasn't matched to the class.

If it's true that an increase in almost 50 Parry has little to no effect on a marauder's ability to parry attacks that presents another issue. Gladiator has an ability that insta-procs a block (MRD = Foresight) however Gladiator also has Outmanuver.. which lasts until the ability is gone. So.. we lost steadfast but GLA has that still... see where I'm going?

WAR will get warmonger and collusion.. but it will still be rendered useless by the fact he'll just be an HP sponge until a GLA with BLOCK that works takes it off of him ; ;

I think the parry rate is fine most of the time. When you have 4-5 mobs on you, you can practically spam Overpower every 3 seconds. It's a really powerful move in these limited instances when you have a mass of mobs on your for whatever reason. Now, if you could parry almost all the time even when tanking fewer mobs, you'd have an AOE WS, that you can spam, for 250 TP! I don't see how that would be in balance with the other classes.

By the way:

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Originally Posted by Kameseri

And I suppose you might also be forgetting that you can equip Sentinel, Rampart, and Flash as Marader. Of course there it will carry less hate than a like Gladiator's use, but they are all still viable options for crowd control.

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Abilities' hate production isn't affected by what class you use them on. Testing provided by the JP community, translations here: Enmity Test Results and Conclusions

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I think the parry rate is fine most of the time. When you have 4-5 mobs on you, you can practically spam Overpower every 3 seconds.

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Anything my parry rate is "fine" on really doesnt even need to be tanked, it just needs to be burned down in 10 seconds. To me, Rampage + Enduring March suggests a longer window than that.

The problem i see is clear to me when comparing my evasion rate. After equipping DEX and Parry hoping to boost parry rate, my rate of evasion is about the same as my rate of parry wearing 0+ evasion. Parry rate seems to have nothing to do with +Parry or DEX stats.

Should i try to squeeze ~100 +parry across two gear slots so i can check to see if it still isnt really effecting anything? Am i supposed to go to such an extreme to even begin to see an effect?

There is +8 Parry stat by trait seperating gladiators, lancers, 2h thaumaturges and 2h conjurers from marauders.

With Fracture and Overpower being tied to Parry, it would be nice to see more influence of stats to passively Parry. Instead of say Foresight every 45 seconds.

update: I'm not Parry spec'd, had four enemies attacking me on a 1 star level 50 (faction) leve, could not get a parry off during the fight. Had to use Foresight to make the thing work.

Would have loved to use Overpower without relying on Foresight. That Steadfast bonus from olden times must have been massive.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

update: I'm not Parry spec'd, had four enemies attacking me on a 1 star level 50 (faction) leve, could not get a parry off during the fight. Had to use Foresight to make the thing work.

Would have loved to use Overpower without relying on Foresight. That Steadfast bonus from olden times must have been massive.

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Indeed. Foresight parry bonus was indeed very expressive. I lost count of the number of times i got over 5 parries in a row against single targets...against multitargets i wouldn't even need to wait for a parry...anytime i used fracture it worked due parry frequency of steadfast.

Hi Pilot,

I can't find it at the moment, but I think I *thought* I saw every 30 +Parry is about +1% chance to Parry against a Level 46 target and maybe about a +0.5% against a Level 50ish target? Capping out at 20%.

...I really thought I saw that somewhere, but I might have dreamed it up too.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

Hi Pilot,

I can't find it at the moment, but I think I *thought* I saw every 30 +Parry is about +1% chance to Parry against a Level 46 target and maybe about a +0.5% against a Level 50ish target? Capping out at 20%.

...I really thought I saw that somewhere, but I might have dreamed it up too.

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Those are the numbers that apply to crit rates. As far as I know, parry has not been extensively tested.

Most of the returns on stuff in general are low, +10 Enmity only wields a 1% return as well, so I wouldn't put it past SE to say you need to put out crazy amounts of parry to make it a worthwhile return.

I dont find I'm having an issue parrying. My reactive abilities fire all the time. Most my tanking has been on bosses though and I admit I have not been doing it very long, but it seems about right to me since we have such a high HP pool to balance the effect.