6 DPS and STILL complaining about "low dps"? (new ex trail)

So in case some of you may not know, there is a new strat in the new Ex Trail where you can basically have 6 DPS, 1 Tank, and 1 Healer just beat the living hell out of the boss and the Tankbuster later you just raise the tank after they die I think.

Anyway, 1 or 2 people in this absolute clown show of a party kept saying the "dps was low" even though we had 6 dps. Even though it may not have been top tier, were still waaaaay ahead of what a normal composition would be doing. I mean can this be even more stupid?

To add a cherry on top, after one clear the shitheads (including the idiot healer PF maker) started dying A LOT and I had to go RDM to raise their sorry asses (because I was the 2nd BRD and heaven forbid a duplicate job even though you have 6 FREAKIN DPS).

One of the most pathetic things I've seen. The old "Skip Soar or disband" meme may have met it's match folks.

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Originally Posted by AncientCrystal

I mean can this be even more stupid?

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I feel like replying yes to that sadly...

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Originally Posted by AncientCrystal

One of the most pathetic things I've seen.

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And also, Trial.

I question how 1 Tank/1 Healer/6 DPS could even be a viable strat. Because the MT is going to die after the buster—a swap is required there. Unless the idea is to DPS so hard that you don’t even see the first buster, which would ask for a very fast kill, since the first one is done during the moon phase. Even the top speedkills now are using the standard comp of 2/2/4–though I do believe 2/1/5 is also viable; the fight has predictable enough damage that solo-healing should not be an issue.

That being said, more DPS doesn’t always equate to better rDPS. You can have 6 DPS and their damage not be higher than just the standard 4. It’s very much possible, especially if people are dying a lot since that’s -25% for Weakness, -50% for Brink of Death.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I question how 1 Tank/1 Healer/6 DPS could even be a viable strat. Because the MT is going to die after the buster—a swap is required there. Unless the idea is to DPS so hard that you don’t even see the first buster. That being said, more DPS doesn’t always equate to better rDPS. You can have 6 DPS and their damage not be higher than just the standard 4. It’s very much possible, especially if people are dying a lot since that’s -25% for Weakness, -50% for Brink of Death.

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I've been in 2 groups that do this now, they basically just revive the tank ASAP and keep going. It works well I guess. But yea, we did have just 1 decent clear with no deaths I think. But after that it was a death/crapshow

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Originally Posted by AncientCrystal

I've been in 2 groups that do this now, they basically just revive the tank ASAP and keep going. It works well I guess. But yea, we did have just 1 decent clear with no deaths I think. But after that it was a death/crapshow

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That’s not a viable strat, in my opinion. I know of some sac strats in A8S, but that was sacrificing a DPS, not a tank. The tank dying to the tankbuster inevitably means that the second highest DPS in terms of enmity (or healer if WHM) is going to have aggro, and it only takes a couple hits from her to slaughter a DPS or healer.

Regardless, I don’t see how this is a DPS gain unless the party members are damn good at their jobs.

Could be trying not to get to the second tank buster, Hallowed Ground/Holmgang/Living Dead could allow the tank to survive long enough for the debuff to fall of I think. Well maybe not Holmgang due to being shorter not sure.

So long as people aren't dieing left and right I've had parties make it to 10% before the second tankbuster and thats ones that don't clear it either. Might be possible.

Never expect High DPS in PF
Don't matter if 4 or 6 DDs
When they DDs can't play their Jobs well, the DPS always will be low

I always see DDs doing less Dmg then a Tank..

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

Could be trying not to get to the second tank buster, Hallowed Ground/Holmgang/Living Dead could allow the tank to survive long enough for the debuff to fall of I think. Well maybe not Holmgang due to being shorter not sure.

So long as people aren't dieing left and right I've had parties make it to 10% before the second tankbuster and thats ones that don't clear it either. Might be possible.

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I think the fastest kill has the second TB hit at 6:30, and then she’s killed at 6:50; they skipped the tankbuster during moon phase. But it was standard comp—2/2/4. Players were all on point though. The 1/1/6 strat is not something I would ever want to try in PF.

You can skip the second set of meteors with a completely standard comp if people are on it. I forget the exact amount needed to push but we're talking ~35k raid dps which isn't especially tricky if everyone's pitching in.

These sorts of strats are good for a giggle but I wouldn't consider it to be an efficient means of farming in a PF.

there is never enough DPs these days it seems, no matter what the fight is...

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I think the fastest kill has the second TB hit at 6:30, and then she’s killed at 6:50; they skipped the tankbuster during moon phase. But it was standard comp—2/2/4. Players were all on point though. The 1/1/6 strat is not something I would ever want to try in PF.

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Hell I'd never want to do that strat either, I have enough trouble remembering which way to go for swords I don't need to be trying to tank hits after getting hit by the buster as well. Already bad enough when the War dies due to switching stances before the buster hits or any tank not using Shirk during the cast.

From my experience from PUG on day 1 and then farmed with FC and friends, DPS has never been an issue. Even with everyone at i355 you can clear it.
Also having 1 tank seem bit odd to me.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

You can skip the second set of meteors with a completely standard comp if people are on it. I forget the exact amount needed to push but we're talking ~35k raid dps which isn't especially tricky if everyone's pitching in.

These sorts of strats are good for a giggle but I wouldn't consider it to be an efficient means of farming in a PF.

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The funniest night I had in there was trying to push and skip second meteors, and when we finally managed to do it, the tank with the magic vuln from the tankbuster immediately exploded from the AOE damage because the debuff was still on them when we phased her lol.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

Hell I'd never want to do that strat either, I have enough trouble remembering which way to go for swords I don't need to be trying to tank hits after getting hit by the buster as well. Already bad enough when the War dies due to switching stances before the buster hits or any tank not using Shirk during the cast.

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Tip for the swords: Bright Blade > B(right). Dark Blade > Left (I remembered this because “dark” and “left” both have four letters, and that’s just how I associated it in my mind)

My friends and I tend to use the uptime strat that Bok Choy showed off, and we actually put the B & D markers on the SE & SW sides respectfully to help with orientation: B for Bright Blade (SE) and D for Dark Blade (SW). If you’re doing cardinals, you could set up B on E and D on W, but the angle of the blade is not 180 degrees, it’s a bit more. So you’d have to remember to orient towards the southern side of east or west. Orientation also helps if the tanks keep her facing north, in my opinion. I struggle with orientation a lot myself, so I really appreciate it when the MT keeps her facing A. So then I can use B and D to determine where I need to run.

Whether or not to be in or out depends on the color Tsuku changes to: White (“Full Moon”) is melee AOE, and Black (“New Moon”) is ranged/donut AOE. I haven’t thought of a trick to remember those yet, sadly.

Maybe people should just go 8 DPS and just let 2 RDMs do the healing. That enough dps for people?

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

The funniest night I had in there was trying to push and skip second meteors, and when we finally managed to do it, the tank with the magic vuln from the tankbuster immediately exploded from the AOE damage because the debuff was still on them when we phased her lol.



Tip for the swords: Bright Blade > B(right). Dark Blade > Left (I remembered this because “dark” and “left” both have four letters, and that’s just how I associated it in my mind)

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The problem becomes "Hey time to move for Bright Blade, to the right!...wait I'm in front meaning I need to go le---"hit" and vice versa for Dark. Combine that with most learning parties tending to just snowball at this point I have a hard time commiting it to memory. That said if I can remember which marker associates with a blade that might help a lot, good reason to keep the boss always facing a certain way too.

The moon part is much easier because I just have to look at the color of the moon on her back. Same with her sword/gun as well, just listen for the sound effect instead of looking at her dialouge.

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Originally Posted by Dualblade

The problem becomes "Hey time to move for Bright Blade, to the right!...wait I'm in front meaning I need to go le---"hit" and vice versa for Dark. Combine that with most learning parties tending to just snowball at this point I have a hard time commiting it to memory. That said if I can remember which marker associates with a blade that might help a lot, good reason to keep the boss always facing a certain way too.

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Yeah tanks have to do it the opposite direction. One we took through with a clear would slide through her to stand with people, and then move back into position. It’s not ideal since she spins but it may be better than getting hit and taking the vuln! I’d still recommend using the markers, and with the size of the arena cleave, she will still probably move a little bit unless you time it so as to run into the animation and prevent too much spinning.

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Originally Posted by AncientCrystal

Maybe people should just go 8 DPS and just let 2 RDMs do the healing. That enough dps for people?

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??? This doesn’t have anything to do with...well, anything. The mistake is expecting “high DPS” from Party Finder, and trying out questionable strats in a PF setting rather than with a group of players that play together frequently, and play together well. There is a huge difference in my experiences between running with PUGs, and running with my friends that I have raided with countless times in the past. I can rely on them to be competent and communicate tricky/not-norm strats. You can’t rely on that amount of competency with PF, sadly, and communication in PUGs is definitely a rarity for farm parties (not so much for clear/learning groups—I see a lot of advertisements in clears/learning parties for Discord, but not so much in farm groups).

Again, more DPS doesn’t not always mean that there will be better raid DPS. Stick with standard comps if you’re PFing with a bunch of randoms. It’s safer that way.

EDIT: I noticed that we’re on the same data center. I can say with quite a bit of certainty that 1/1/6 is not a standard thing in PF. I’ve seen 2/1/5 (solo-heal), but most parties are the standard 2/2/4. This isn’t nearly on the “Skip Soar or Disband” level.

No marker strat is definitely the new skip soar

Generally people who are not that proficient at there job will flock to the solo heal/tank parties expecting to be carried by other DPS
ilevel restriction helps but high ilevel doesn't make you a good player.
like ive had normal PF skip the second moon phase but with the 5 dps they didn't get it to 40% by then
your case you just had some ass hats

I find it easier to look at her clothing. Her left side has a dress-like clothing and her right has some feather-like design. Dark > dress side and bright > feather side.

Though I’ve heard that the jp side their cast actually tells them directly which side the blade will come from (eg: bright left and dark right)

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Whether or not to be in or out depends on the color Tsuku changes to: White (“Full Moon”) is melee AOE, and Black (“New Moon”) is ranged/donut AOE. I haven’t thought of a trick to remember those yet, sadly.

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Would considering the new moon as Eclipse and then remembering to always dodge the light help? If it's full moon, then the light is all around her (cause the moon is the light). If it's New Moon, then the area around her is "eclipsed", but there is that aura around, meaning you want to be close.

Well, that's the first thing that comes to mind.

Another is a literal translation of a saying from my language. "It's always the darkest under the lantern." which is an equivalent of "The best place to hide something is in plain sight". Just consider her the lantern, keh.

I have seen all sorts of strats for this trial but I believe simple is best. Tanks north, dps south, healers east/west for both meteors and Nightfalls. As for the full and new moon phases comboing with the bright and dark blades, just know you can survive an accidental blade but you won't likely survive an accidental moon phase so you should concentrate on what phase she is in if you get confused.

Sounds like a really risky and questionable strat. I definitely would never join a group attempting this, its asking for things to go very wrong.

I've done 1/1/6 in an organised group, and it is possible to do it without any deaths. First you have to skip the first tank buster entirely, so there's only the one during sword phase. For that one, you have the tank pop their invuln just as the tank buster hits. It'll last until she starts casting her next mechanic (we were doing this with a WAR, so any tank's should work), which is north-or-south fans + Hagetsu, then the tank simply runs into position and therefore out of the boss's auto-attack range (she won't move while the mechanic is going on) and the vulnerability-up will wear off before the mechanics are over.

Nobody said the obvious but just because you've recruited 6 dps doesn't mean they all will be good. Some DPS players in this game struggle to outdo even healers and at that point, of course, the swap from a great healer to a bad dps nets you no benefit.

I was in a 5 DPS farm myself a couple days ago and we were getting slower kills than 4 DPS.
People seem to have this misconception that more DPS=more damage, but in reality if that dps is doing as much DPS as a tank or healer it's not adding much.

Tsukuyomi is already one of the faster ex trials, I wonder why people are so obsessed over clearing it even faster.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Whether or not to be in or out depends on the color Tsuku changes to: White (“Full Moon”) is melee AOE, and Black (“New Moon”) is ranged/donut AOE. I haven’t thought of a trick to remember those yet, sadly.

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You could use something like this:

You go out during the day when it's bright white and you go in at night when it's pitch dark.

And for me, it's much easier to just use her dress color than to memorize her words.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Whether or not to be in or out depends on the color Tsuku changes to: White (“Full Moon”) is melee AOE, and Black (“New Moon”) is ranged/donut AOE. I haven’t thought of a trick to remember those yet, sadly.

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I don't think it's as important compared to the Bright - Dark mechanic, since the moon pattern is always the same and always alternates, so it's just a matter of remembering which one you did last. But you could always do "Full Go Far, New Go Near" I suppose.

If the purpose of a 6 dps group is to skip skippable mechanic X and party isn't able to do it, then dps is too low indeed.

Ppl should join such groups if they go full ham and care abput performance and not just because they think 'oh, 6 dps sound quicker' and then stop caring.
Because solotank/-heal comp is a more elite strat (i.e. harder), so idk maybe expect more elitist players in there?