I'm not sure if I put this in the correct location, and forgive me that if I didn't. However, this is a question I'd like to know the answer to. The reason why I ask is because it is a third party program, though I know it isn't really hurting anyone (unlike some other third party programs.) The information that players are getting by parsing though is information that I think should be allowed to be obtained by anyone that was interested in it. Myself and my linkshell mates haven't used one because we do not wish to go against the ToS in any fashion. And yet, everyone on the forums seems to openly talk about them. Players in game also seem to openly talk about them. I was just curious if they are allowed to be used without putting anyone's account into question. Thank you for your time and I hope someone can help me with this. =)
P.S. Would love a rep response to this. =)
Edit:
The use of third party programs or tools in FINAL FANTASY XIV is strictly prohibited in that these devices permit players to enjoy benefits at the expense of others. The use of these tools or programs in FINAL FANTASY XIV, which have the function of automising certain actions continuously, is like playing the game absently in a robotic maner, that which is also against the rules of FINAL FANTASY XIV. Besides this and not limited to, players can, over the course of an investigation on their playing the game while absent, be arrested by a Game Master and should in such a case obey the Game Master's instructions. To act against the Game Master's instructions is considered a violation and can be followed by disciplinary mesures against the account of the player at fault.
The following activities are equally prohibited:
•The modification, analysis, integration and reverse engineering of game data - Posted by Youmukon
Are parsers legal now?
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02-02-2012, 11:31 AMEldaenaAre parsers legal now?
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02-02-2012, 12:12 PMRaldo
Parsers are a third party tool, so they are still against the ToS.
That said, there isn't really any way for them to detect most types of parsers. People will always openly defy the ToS unless SE cracks down. Don't expect that anytime soon; right now, I don't think SE can afford to lose paying customers.
Retracted. Keep reading. -
02-02-2012, 12:38 PMEldaenaYeah, I kind of got the drift this is how it was. So, I'm surprised how everyone talks about it all the time if it's still against the ToS. I guess for the same reason people still bot, I suppose. Because they can get away with it (or SE doesn't care)? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Raldo
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02-02-2012, 01:11 PMDuuude007
Actually, the game (by design) exports your logs to a text file on your local machine. Once its in the text file, any type of parser which only interacts with it is perfectly legal, as it is operating under the microsoft (etc) user agreement tied to that file format, and not acting as a 3rd party app running in tandem with ffxiv.
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02-02-2012, 01:35 PMRaldo
I went and looked up the ToS.
What is considered an unfair advantage is up for debate, but I'm inclined to agree with Duuude007. I can't see very many people interpreting a parser as an unfair advantage. Note: One of the BG parsers supposedly reads the data in RAM, so that one may be technically against the ToS, but /shrug.Quote:
Using third party programs or tools in FINAL FANTASY XIV is strictly prohibited since they allow users to gain an unfair advantage over other players.
I retract my previous post on the matter. I'm sure this is one of those grey areas where SE won't do anything about it, but certainly won't actively support it. -
02-02-2012, 02:57 PMEldaenaThey wouldn't actively support it even though it appears a large part of the community is using it? Again, I am interested in this information (such as damage dealt, hp healed, etc), but if there is even a slight chance it would be considered against the ToS I'm not going to use it. I also heard that there was a Blue Garter interview of some kind with "SE?" where they openly talked about parsers? I would just really love clarification on this because it still says firstly and foremost that Third Party programs or tools in FFXIV are strictly prohibited, but I understand that it is probably some gray area. But gray area or not, I won't risk my account on it. Rep please help us with this! ; ^ ;Quote:
Originally Posted by Raldo
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02-02-2012, 03:03 PMBruceyBruceyBangBang
Who was ever suspended or banned for using a parser? Grow a pair. I bet you wouldn't even take a music data file and exchange it for another because you liked the music better. Teacher might catch you!
Them catching you is about as likely as god watching you while you pleasure yourself. It's not even doing anything that exploits game mechanics or puts you at an advantage. -
02-02-2012, 03:11 PMMicahZerrshia
idk how serious se takes 3rd pt programs anymore. ppl in xi talk openly of windower, post vids of themselves using windower and the whole shebang and no one is banned for it in ages. same with botting and rmt. I think se has just learned its inevitable and kindda threw their hands up.
SE reps are always quiet on the subject and if they do make a comment its that its against the tos and players will be banned but their threats are generally empty -
02-02-2012, 06:56 PMEldaenaFirst of all, I'm a female, so you think you could take a few less masculine/anti-feminine personal attacks at me? Second of all, your defensive stance on this must mean you use them and take offense to my questioning. I'm not attacking you. I'm not attacking anyone. I just want to know if it's okay for me to use one. I'm not getting on anyone's back, so I would expect the same in kind. (Also, SE "could" consider it an advantage if they did infact not want players to have that information. But that is up to them, not you, and certainly not me.)Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceyBruceyBangBang
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02-02-2012, 07:56 PMGriss
Parsers just look at log files and compile the relevant data mechanically. You could feasibly do the exact same thing manually with a pencil and piece of paper.. Its not modifying or interacting with the client at all. there for technically not breaking the tos.
and yes bg did get a interview with yoshida during his big fan sight interview tour. they talked on many subjects including but not limited to ui additions check it out here included is the raw audio of the interview! -
02-09-2012, 03:59 PMEldaena
The use of third party programs or tools in FINAL FANTASY XIV is strictly prohibited in that these devices permit players to enjoy benefits at the expense of others. The use of these tools or programs in FINAL FANTASY XIV, which have the function of automising certain actions continuously, is like playing the game absently in a robotic maner, that which is also against the rules of FINAL FANTASY XIV. Besides this and not limited to, players can, over the course of an investigation on their playing the game while absent, be arrested by a Game Master and should in such a case obey the Game Master's instructions. To act against the Game Master's instructions is considered a violation and can be followed by disciplinary mesures against the account of the player at fault.
The following activities are equally prohibited:
•The modification, analysis, integration and reverse engineering of game data - Posted by Youmukon
With this information, is it saying Anaylysis of data as well? Is that not what parsers do? -
02-09-2012, 04:31 PMKinseykinz
I don't have or use a parcer. However, I've been in fights/battles where others have used them. I don't see an issue against the TOA because as others have said, it doesn't directly change or affect gameplay. Actually, SE probably embraces us using them to some extent as they allow people to concretely see changes in data based on gear changes/skill adjustments/player ability etc. However this being said, I can't in good faith tell you 'sure using a parcer is totally inline with the TOA'. You have to make the decision yourself since it does belong in a 'grey area'.
Although if I were SE, I would just write/code the 'parser' for 2.0 party gameplay. If SE gave us an IN-GAME tool that ranked players after a difficult battle based on overall contribution (or at least gave raw damage totals/highest spike damage total and top healer/buffer), then it would negate the need for parcers. But then again /ls message seems to ellude them... -
02-10-2012, 02:09 AMEldaenaYes, I'd really like to get a parser to know this information. But with the information so recently posted, it almost feels like they are enforcing my reasoning behind not getting one to begin with. I hope in 2.0 they have an integrated parser for after fights or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseykinz
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02-10-2012, 02:24 AMSkies
Uhn, actually that is a bit of legalese and that sort of stuff is always unclear if you're not a lawyer.
Regardless, to put that in simpler words it must mean something like "Don't screw with the client, and don't try to decompile the game either".
Suffice to say, it'd be the most bizarre thing in the world if SE had an issue with your parsing the log files that the game itself outputs. So essentially as long as the parser doesn't pokes itself inside the game client and workss off the natural output, it shouldn't ever be a problem. -
02-10-2012, 05:00 AMlackofwords
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...seragreement_e
2. LICENSE LIMITATIONS2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.
Is that clear enough?
Then again there is also this;
3. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES3.5 Naming Right. You may not use any name or other intellectual property belonging to SQUARE ENIX or any other third party in your use of the Game (for example, naming a character after a celebrity, company, product, or superhero).
But as you know there's a bunch of Chuck Norris running around.
Also there is this;
http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...la=1&tag=authc
FINAL FANTASY® XIV Materials Usage License; Effective August 11, 2010
For purpose of clarification, your use of the Materials on a website may not display any of Square Enix’s trademarked and/or copyrighted materials other than Materials authorized by the most current version of this license, which currently excludes any FINAL FANTASY XIV in-game video, music or vocal tracks captured by you or any third party. You will not alter the Materials or produce derivative works based on the Materials. You will not alter, remove or conceal any trademark or copyright notice that may be included on the Materials. You must immediately comply with any request by Square Enix to remove any or all Materials, as specified in a notice from Square Enix.
This means SE still holds the rights to strip away any user created Material on a website, including but not limited to FRAPs video of your game play, any altered works using the Material, or any music tracks. Will they use this against their users? Probably not since they aren't that evil, but they still reserve the legal rights to. -
02-11-2012, 03:05 AMacpowell
More than likely if you decided to use one, You would get a slap on the wrist for first time offence unless you are gaining a highly unfair advantage, but as lackofwords pointed out it is defiantly against the rules as far as SE sees it.
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02-12-2012, 07:20 PMSoukyuuExcept the parser is getting it's data from the .txt files the game exports... for what purpose if not for analysis?Quote:
Originally Posted by lackofwords
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02-13-2012, 03:15 AMRaldoYeah, I've always seen parsers as like... going through someone's trash and finding out what they ate by looking at the receipts they threw away. As always with legalese, it's up to interpretation, but I don't think they'll ever do anything about it. I don't see anything wrong with it, and I'm one of the ones that refused to use Windower for FFXI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soukyuu
I am curious though... do they do anything to obfuscate their log files, or are they literally human-readable text files? -
02-13-2012, 03:23 AMMychaelGo to \My Games\FINAL FANTASY XIV\user\######\log and open one. You can read it for yourself in Notepad. It's hard to read as a human because lines don't wrap, but still. Definitely human-readable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raldo