New Trial Shenanigans

Hello lovely people!

Hope you are having a wonderful day! I came across a situation that has been bugging me for awhile: The expected ability to be a master in just a couple of days. Here, let me explain:

Earlier today, I ran the newest story trial. It wasn't before long until the following happens:

"IDIOTS! Stand in a straight line!"
"Why are you all dying?!"
"WTH?!!!!!!"

Now....what is rather frustrating is the lack of patience for learning players. I've been playing for awhile, and typically the first few days, people are rather generous with wipes. However, lately (perhaps it is just my luck) I've been running into a growing number of players who either really can't stand new players or have a incredibly short temper for wipes.

I understand the frustration with wiping on the 10,000th try. Believe me, Shinryu still haunts my dreams, but to be so upset over new players who are making mistakes in fresh-new content is rather disheartening.

I've asked gently (at least I believe I did) to give people more time to learn to receive responses ranging from positive ("Sorry, I'm just upset) to flat out negative ("Maybe they should learn to ***** stack!"). I spend the majority of my life teaching adults and children, and I've learned a great deal that people all learn with different approaches. Some learn hands-on, others learn through watching, and others just to pure listening skills (so jealous of that ability). My question is this: What are your thoughts on this? Is this justifiable? Is this wrong? My personal opinion is just simply this: Be patient with other players. Sometimes, people aren't simply trolling and are really trying to get the hang of things, and telling them to "Git Gud!" isn't always the best solution.

Its mostly painful for the people who are just coming back. Have under 35k HP and are right there at the ilvl minimum doing bare minimum dps.

But there has been some server lag the past few days and that imo is the biggest threat

It's a product of the toxic environment SE has nurtured here. Every problem we've had has been met with the most punishing and player-unfriendly solution possible. People fishing for an in-progress queue? Let's add a punishment to deter instead of fixing the root problem. People making newbies skip cutscenes and locking them out of content? Let's make them unskippable instead of fixing the root problem (either make it a solo dungeon or rework it so cutscenes don't exist inside). Problems with housing being available for everyone? Nah, let's not instance the content, let's just demolish someone's home if they don't log in for x days. Much better solution and so much more modern than XI! We have improved upon our systems so much! A minority of people think they should have an equal shot at a piece of gear as someone doing the content as that job who might also need the piece for their main? Just kill the need button because no one needs a piece, really. It was always just a suggestion to run a content on the class you are working on. Let's make sure that new players leveling mains don't have that silly idea they can go in and have first shot at a piece of gear that is for their class because someone else wants to go into something on their tank for their jump-potioned SAM. Glad I don't only have a bunch of other DPS to compete with for queue slots AND gear, now I'm going to lose gear to the insta-queue tank that wanted an easy way out of a longer queue.

Is it any wonder that the players of this game follow suit and are just abusive when the devs don't even treat this game as a service to the players?

Not quite sure how to respond (not negative, just still thinking). I'm no developer, but I can assume that reaching out to newer players is a good approach for business. But that does beg the question of how will that effect current or veteran players? I'm not a fan of the cancellation of the "Need" option in Alliance raids, but I can see the viewpoint of the developers and why they introduced it, I'm just not sure that was the correct response. It is still service to the players, just the question of which players is it servicing.

My patience wore out when not even 10 hours after the trial was released, there were party finders up demanding "know all mechanics or don't join" or "100% on all mechanics or you're kicked." There were enough of them with "Duty Complete" that I'm going to assume they weren't all trap parties. I got told to watch a guide before the trial was 12 hours old, and there were NO guides at that point. There were clear videos (which I had watched) but I believe MrHappy's guide was the first actual GUIDE to the trial and I think that showed up on Youtube around 9 p.m. PST that day, and I'd already been in several learning parties before then.

Some people need to take some GIANT chill pills and either accept that this is new content that may have new or returning players in it, or that not everyone learns as quickly or the same as they do, OR run the content only with friends/fc mates/static members.

This is what the cross-server LS is for sadly, just ignore the toxic players and find players who are patient and want to have fun and makes mistakes.

As for 24man raid and fishing for in-progress, yes this is a huge issue and it's honestly something that could be fixed if they added 1 simple change. An additional chest that only players who are not going through the dungeon for the first time can lot on. Basically SE could put in a requirement that states if X player=First Timer Bonus then they can't lot/see the loot from the Global Chest that drops on Bosses 1-2-3, as a means to avoid spoilers.

Since the whole reason we only get all the extra loot at the last boss is to avoid spoilers, the card that states the name of the final boss, the minion of the 3rd boss. . . but quite honestly, they don't need to have the music scrolls on the last boss. They could just add those to the 1-2-3 loot pool but by putting everything on the last boss, people will risk 1-2 withdrawals from a raid in hopes of getting to the final boss and save themselves 45-90 mins.

We talking about normal mode or extreme here?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TyrTry

snip

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Obviously that player you met needed to chill down a bit, but to defend them in a very slight bit, Square's been using standardized stack markers since the beginning of stormblood (and late HW) now. If the guy you mentioned was complaining about people not stacking, it can be justified to an extent when the "giant yellow arrows indicating you need to stack" marker has been forced to seen in:

(Job potion could skip these)
-Several HW instances

(Players are forced to be exposed to them during:/)
-Sirensong sea
-Doma castle
-Final boss of Stormblood
-Susano
-Laksmi
-Miscellaneous solo instances

and optionally:

-Several deltascape and Sigmascape fights
-Several SB dungeons
-Almost every HW and SB 24 man.

So at this point, it's pretty bad for someone who plays the game even regularly to not stack when they see that marker, given how much it's used. While that guy you mentioned over-reacted when he should have just said "you need to stack for that", I can understand why people would get irritated over it. I'd personally get more irritated over people not stacking than any other mechanic in a fight at this point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TyrTry

Hello lovely people!...blah blah blah...ranting the obvious

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You do realize there is a learning curve and the game was not meant for you alone. Everyone has their way of playing, lack experience, and will listen less specially if they are criticized negatively. Give or take there are people who lack complete common sense,Now to the obvious;

Common sense; IF you know using duty finder will give you these results why not just;

A) Start a party with people you know

B) Ask your FC for Help

C) accept the fact that not everyone is a good as a player as others. Most are casual and lack common sense or are far behind in understanding simple mechanics.

Or

D) Try to communicate better and call a quick questioner of what is so hard to understanding.

Not to criticize any one, but most people complain this game is too hard for a reason. -.-; they want it easy without really trying. So much content has been nerfed throughout the expansions that I'm surprise this thread even exist.

As a Vet player I can understand the learning curve, however when players are not even trying, making sense on their questions, fail put their words into action there is only so much a person can take. Overall most players will be patient, however if the same mistake is repeated over 3 times and shows no sign of improvement, we are better of leaving.

We don't blame the product, we blame the player. -.-;, but hey everyone pays a subscription so they can play at their pace right? Who are we to judge and let them know that they are ruining it for people who actually take it bit more serious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TyrTry

I spend the majority of my life teaching adults and children, and I've learned a great deal that people all learn with different approaches. Some learn hands-on, others learn through watching, and others just to pure listening skills (so jealous of that ability).

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I can sympathize, but I think part of the problem here is that those not having patience aren't teachers, they're classmates and peers. Students learn at different rates, this is a problem with schools and it's a problem with this game to further the analogy. Holding someone back because others can't keep up isn't fair to either party. Unfortunately there's not a great solution here so long as you want the fast learners to still be queued in with the slower.

"Why are you all dying?!"

https://media.giphy.com/media/vWDrezW0rMjmM/giphy.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vaer

We talking about normal mode or extreme here?

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Normal and Extreme. Either one leads to issues at times (more positive for normal, more frustrated for Extreme).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

We don't blame the product, we blame the player. -.-;, but hey everyone pays a subscription so they can play at their pace right? Who are we to judge and let them know that they are ruining it for people who actually take it bit more serious.

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I think it is just a matter of looking at both sides. Each side pays their sub; each side has a view on how the other is ruining the other. I'm not a fan of the "toxic" attitude either (let alone the use of the word, as the word seems to have lost its meaning) I'm not a fan of running the same thing 17 times. But I'm less of a fan of berating people for learning new content all because they couldn't make it day one (not saying that is what you do, like you said, leaving is sometimes the best approach if you're getting frustrated).

However, thank you for the reply. I understand your point of view.

Now....what is rather frustrating is the lack of patience for learning players.
Oh my gosh, we wiped two or three times the day it came out, and someone voted "abandon" on the second wipe. Thankfully, it was rejected. After rab & new raid, voting abandon after 2 tries is really unnecessary. I was really struggling with the AoEs on this one (seemed very touchy, even if I wasn't on an aoe, it would still somehow hit me), and people just don't seem to get the "line-up" aoe (I swear to gods, did SE implement that aoe because of the line-up meme for Raubahn ex? :| ). People were especially getting frustrated with me as the healer who kept dying. (1.) I just returned this month, 2.) my gear just met minimal requirement.) I kept stacking on the tank by accident (whether they kept moving her or not, I'm not sure. I think they did because her conal aoe would sometimes be south, sometimes be west, etc. I died facing east (was to the west of the map), and yet was told "I've been tanking north the entire time!"), so I ended up putting in a marker to mark north cuz... we were all getting confused with the positioning. We got it by the third or fourth try once waymarker was up, but man... Relax, take a breath. It's okay to trip and fall.

https://i.imgur.com/rRSPWUl.gif

But yea, can't even remember the last time I pugged something I've been avoiding the duty finder for so long... the only laid back people I've met recently in instanced content has been in Eureka, otherwise it seems like everywhere else people have their emotional intensity set too high.

So glad I have my friends and the SheHulk LS to run content with <3