Petition - Bring back the Need button in 24 mans

Just like the title says.

I know I'm the minority (At least in the US community) But I actually like it.

Lets me be able to play my main, while have the chance to get gear on ALL other classes.

So no.... Leave it off thank you.

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Originally Posted by Vondoomervil

I know I'm the minority (At least in the US community) But I actually like it.

Lets me be able to play my main, while have the chance to get gear on ALL other classes.

So no.... Leave it off thank you.

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So you want to get gear for classes but not play them?

Now we just need someone proficient in moon runes to post this to the nippon side of the forum to truly let our voices be heard.

I want to get gear for alts that I play sometimes.... and if I can do that playing my main, that's I higher ilvl... and the job I enjoy playing the most, then I'm happy to do that.


Pretty simple really.
I know its not popular though, I can understand why. But, I'm enjoying the change.

I grabbed me that sweet Monk top as WAR
Crit and DH

With crafted augmentation its pretty easy to gear up alt classes now my astro went from 352 to 361 in one afternoon

I'm baffled as to why people think that they can't get gear on their sub classes while going on their mains. I used to go on healer ALL the time to 24 mans and yet greed on other items. Due to the lockout nature, competition was very low and if I really wanted something, then I should have to come as that class.

The Greed Only nature has really changed that mindset though.

Right now, all this Greed Only is doing is screwing over SAMs/MNKs from their upgrades.

IMO button for the most part makes no difference most of the time when loot is locked to 1 item per week. However on the 24 man raids that no longer have that limitation people have a habit of rolling Need on anything they can just because they can.

I agree with Op. Please bring "need" button back.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

IMO button for the most part makes no difference most of the time when loot is locked to 1 item per week. However on the 24 man raids that no longer have that limitation people have a habit of rolling Need on anything they can just because they can.

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The larger thread for this has countless stories of people losing out on their upgrades in the new alliance raid because people who didn't even play the class rolled on the loot. It's a problem even with the lockout.

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Originally Posted by Vondoomervil

I know I'm the minority (At least in the US community) But I actually like it.

Lets me be able to play my main, while have the chance to get gear on ALL other classes.

So no.... Leave it off thank you.

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Yup. Sucks to be that dope who played their main hoping for upgrades for their main getting it yoinked out from under them by somebody who may play the class sometime if they feel like it.

Would 100% support.
I don't see why people should run this raid for like 20 times just trying to get one piece as even fully equipped people can/might/will roll Greed.
Like... seriously.
If you want equip for a class, even an alt, you have to earn it either by playing it, talking it out with the others (who knows, miracles happen) or hope nobody needs it (thus the roll goes to you).

No no, that's a good thing. Now, if I want to gear my tank or my healer, I don't even have to learn how to do it properly, I can just run with any DPS regardless of how subpar I could be, since I'll bland in the crowd.

FYI, this was a sarcasm :p

I'm fine with the change, I can go on a well geared job and get gear for my jobs that are wearing junk.

Please bring back need!

well my mains SCH, SMN and BLM has all the gear superior to alliance raids right now. So, why would i get the gear for them? i get tank gear instead because i am gearing my tanks. So, i am happy i don't have to play tank to get the gear.

Hoping for RNG to give you the gear you want was already bad enough. Now I have to fight 7 other people to keep the item, if it finally drops. Even if you ask the party to pass the item you want, there's no guarantee they'll listen. I've been in situations when people asked the party to pass on gear, only for another person to take it anyway.

Why is everyone here apparently rolling against their entire party?

You only get one drop a week, almost everything in my runs has ended up on the floor.

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Originally Posted by Vondoomervil

I want to get gear for alts that I play sometimes.... and if I can do that playing my main, that's I higher ilvl... and the job I enjoy playing the most, then I'm happy to do that.


Pretty simple really.
I know its not popular though, I can understand why. But, I'm enjoying the change.

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Then why not level those alts up with dungeon runs? If you do intent to play them sometimes those dungeon runs should be quite easy with the other jobs. Thus you can need roll on those and thus level up your jobs without a change that will negatively impact others quite much.

Raids do not require a need button...

You know what they need? A token system that kicks in when you do it enough times without getting loot.

Because being 220/450 for weekly tomestones on a character, with only Lighthouse and still not having even rolled on anything really making me dislike the new raid...

As it stands someone that plays/has a level 70 Warrior can loose a roll to someone with a level 10 Maurader, lol

Please, change this stupid decision

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Originally Posted by Maero

As it stands someone that plays/has a level 70 Warrior can loose a roll to someone with a level 10 Maurader, lol

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tbh this comment doesn't make sense. why would someone lock themselves from weekly gear to get themselves a tank gear while they are lv10?
there are more than one way to get gear. most people gear their alts with alliance raids. in the end, though, it doesn't matter. no one rolls for the gear to be greedy. they roll because they need it in some way. i think this makes everyone equal with rolling, instead of people who just roll stuff to get the gear they don't even need. a.k.a selling them for gc seals, get materia etc. etc. i have seen many times a lv70 tank rolls need on something on lv60 raids. maybe someone needs that gear to gear their lv60 tanks? did you think of that i wonder.

in the end, everyone loots what they need for. it is weekly locked so not everyone is getting all the gears. it is fine as it is now imo.

/sign

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Originally Posted by PerrinTaveren

tbh this comment doesn't make sense. why would someone lock themselves from weekly gear to get themselves a tank gear while they are lv10?
there are more than one way to get gear. most people gear their alts with alliance raids. in the end, though, it doesn't matter. no one rolls for the gear to be greedy. they roll because they need it in some way. i think this makes everyone equal with rolling, instead of people who just roll stuff to get the gear they don't even need. a.k.a selling them for gc seals, get materia etc. etc. i have seen many times a lv70 tank rolls need on something on lv60 raids. maybe someone needs that gear to gear their lv60 tanks? did you think of that i wonder.

in the end, everyone loots what they need for. it is weekly locked so not everyone is getting all the gears. it is fine as it is now imo.

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Aside from there already being a zillion page thread that covers this... someone actively doing the job right then losing out on an upgrade to some guy with an alt that might get played sometime, maybe, is hardly fair. They don't need it. They want it. That's why need/greed was created in the first place. That's why it's still the default loot system in literally every other roulette in the game.

This broke people's ability to get gear for their mains, especially on jobs where the gear is popular for glamour (SAM). It's SE fixing a problem that didn't exist in the first place and creating a real problem by doing so.

Agreed.

The Need option never was a problem. Stop wasting resources fixing what isn't broken.

It may not be considered directly an 'issue', however, there had been a lot heavy arguments about loots within party/alliance chat. I for instance felt shy to greed things for my other classes, worried the other one might need. Somebody greeding on something somebody else needed, it did become issue what I experienced. It is what stopped me daring to press Greed button myself - it was horrific. And the bullying was uncalled for many times I witness. Once somebody does specify need of a gear, many passes on. I just pass. This has fixed the issue as alliance raid -does- drop heavy alt-gathering items, and really nice for glamours too, in such, it makes sense.

I don't know if this will last, but I agree that this is anything but a working solution and should bring the Need button back and since they are there they should take a closer look to 24 man raid rewards in general especially if any x.x8 patch is going to remove savage lockouts in the future

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Originally Posted by PerrinTaveren

tbh this comment doesn't make sense. why would someone lock themselves from weekly gear to get themselves a tank gear while they are lv10?
there are more than one way to get gear. most people gear their alts with alliance raids. in the end, though, it doesn't matter. no one rolls for the gear to be greedy. they roll because they need it in some way. i think this makes everyone equal with rolling, instead of people who just roll stuff to get the gear they don't even need. a.k.a selling them for gc seals, get materia etc. etc. i have seen many times a lv70 tank rolls need on something on lv60 raids. maybe someone needs that gear to gear their lv60 tanks? did you think of that i wonder.

in the end, everyone loots what they need for. it is weekly locked so not everyone is getting all the gears. it is fine as it is now imo.

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They would lot if they want that specific piece, for whatever reason, either glamour or just to have it to level into or whatever. If anything drops that you want, it's best for you to lot on it lockout or not, because you never know when it'll drop again. And sometimes people lot just to get ANYTHING, because they've run it a bunch and don't want their lockout to go to waste. Also people don't typically keep running after they get their item, so pretty much everybody in the run isn't going to be locked out at the start of every run.

If someone wants level 60 tank gear from a 24 man it's solely for glamour. That would be a terrible way to gear a job and if someone is running old content to get substandard gear that's going to be outdated and worthless once they get to level 61 then it's probably for the best if somebody stops them by needing it.

I'm running the place mostly for the chance at getting the NIN gear, most specifically the Feet, Chest, and Hands. I've been in 4 times and have yet to see any of said pieces, and the most frustrating part is that even if I do see them, someone could roll and get them whilst said roller may not even have the classes for it even unlocked.

That bs needs changing.

What is the ilvl of the items in the new raid btw?

I think for the newer raids it makes sense. There are times when you'd like to gear an alt but the gear you have on said alt would be worse than playing your main, therefore greed helps. The likelihood of anyone rolling on the piece of gear you want is less since there's a weekly lockout. I don't think the ff14 team intends 24 mans to be the place to gear up your main toon, considering there are so many other avenues to get progression ilevel equipment. That being said, anyone hoping to get glamour in the old 24 mans is SOL these days.

Honestly, I would be fine with this change if only we weren't limited to two equipment drops per boss. I've gone through 4 runs without -one- caster piece dropping and that makes the All-Greed a pain.

Why should we have to go back from a bad system to another bad system? Being able to play any job you want at the time (regardless of what you are gearing) is one of the good sides of this game and you can do that with tomes, 8 man normal, extremes and savage. Alliance raids should get tokens too and not the relic from the past that Need Before Greed is.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLagbeard

Raids do not require a need button...

You know what they need? A token system that kicks in when you do it enough times without getting loot.

Because being 220/450 for weekly tomestones on a character, with only Lighthouse and still not having even rolled on anything really making me dislike the new raid...

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You know what, I could get behind this considering that 3.0 and 4.0 raids already have tokens in the form of the coins.
Just add an NPC that lets you trade coins for gear from raids.

Andbeforeyouneedcoinsforupgradesthough, there are THREE ways to get upgrade items: coins, hunt logs, and savage loot.


However, I also want the Need button back regardless.

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Originally Posted by Vondoomervil

I know I'm the minority (At least in the US community) But I actually like it.

Lets me be able to play my main, while have the chance to get gear on ALL other classes.

So no.... Leave it off thank you.

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There's nothing that turns off the ability to get gear for your alt classes when playing your main. The only restriction was on Needing it, since you weren't on the class where that was available. But Greed on your main has always been there. It didn't magically get turned off when you played your main. I've been using it for years to gear up my bard by running my healer. If I lost the roll to someone in the group who actually came as that class so they were able to Need it? Only fair. I didn't come as that class.

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Originally Posted by Akamadoshi

Somebody greeding on something somebody else needed, it did become issue what I experienced. It is what stopped me daring to press Greed button myself - it was horrific. And the bullying was uncalled for many times I witness.

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How? Need supersedes Greed. If someone rolled Need, the game only considers those Need rolls. The Greed rolls don't even come into it. So Greed away. You're just going to be competing with others who do Greed if no one Needs. If someone bullies you, they were idiots because they obviously didn't understand that there were two different hierarchies.

What you may have experienced was someone "calling" an item that they wanted. That's a completely different animal. That's an instance where they can't Need so they have to Greed and they're asking the party to Pass.

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Originally Posted by AppleJinx

Now we just need someone proficient in moon runes to post this to the nippon side of the forum to truly let our voices be heard.

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A thread about this already exists on the JP side.

It mentions a dev post saying they implemented this so that players wouldn't be locked out of getting gear for alt classes that were too under-geared for the raid, but they'll assess the feedback they get and make a decision of whether to continue it or not. Most responses are unhappy about it (one asks, "did we even ask for this?" lol) and the highest rated responses are along the vein of "please change it back", "this just makes getting drops more difficult" or "it's frustrating watching someone on a different job take loot for a class you're playing."

I don't see them keeping this new rule for long, really.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

What you may have experienced was someone "calling" an item that they wanted. That's a completely different animal. That's an instance where they can't Need so they have to Greed and they're asking the party to Pass.

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Ah, no, as stated, when someone said of needing an item it was always negotiated in peace. I was in shock when greed happened (It was not me who put greed, other players) it was few occasions I witness them getting harassed/bullied for greeding (and the ones who needed never had said anything) It was in my opinion very harsh ,, if I need an item I tend to ask the group if it is okay to. This happens a lot, with no issue. But I had experiences where it was not said, and when someone greed on something - it was terrible. But as you have suggested is always the best!

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Originally Posted by Vondoomervil

I know I'm the minority (At least in the US community) But I actually like it.

Lets me be able to play my main, while have the chance to get gear on ALL other classes.

So no.... Leave it off thank you.

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This is true for you *right now* because you are gearing 'alts', but when you are gearing a class you *really* want to get equipment for and you can't because *other* people are 'gearing their alts'... that might be a different story. Then those 40 minutes raid runs become a lot less fun and this change becomes a much bigger problem.

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Originally Posted by PerrinTaveren

tbh this comment doesn't make sense. why would someone lock themselves from weekly gear to get themselves a tank gear while they are lv10?
there are more than one way to get gear. most people gear their alts with alliance raids. in the end, though, it doesn't matter. no one rolls for the gear to be greedy. .

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Reality check people do roll because they are greedy, lol
Some do it for future glamour, etc...
Many do roll on gear they do not yet have a job for yet or are say level 25 and such. Just grab what you can and do not bother doing the 24 man for the rest of the week is what some do.