Amateur modding seems to be better looking than professional in-game options?

This is NOT a thread to discuss the morality of modders/modding.

I'm attempting to learn more about how FFXIV works as a game and the limitations of what the game is able to accommodate vs the limitations of what SE is willing to rework or improve.

Are we stuck with Sims hands and feet forever? If so, why? "PS4 limitations"? Or is it SE's budget is extremely tight despite paid subscriptions and Mog Station revenue?

Has the "modding community" proved there is room for improvement that SE is not utilizing? Or is their work only impressive because it is "client side"?

A lot of it is only impressive because it's client side. SE has to consider a broad range of systems when they push out updates for the game, where as mods can generally be resource hogs for those who have the system to handle it without much of a care in the world. With that said however, I do wish SE would go the route of LoTRO and actually provide an opt-in high-resolution texture pack for the game. Reshade and other graphic altering programs are unlikely to ever make it into the game, but allowing people who have the ability to run with higher texture maps the chance to do so wouldn't be a bad idea.

One of the biggest things to understand is that modders aren't constricted by deadlines, budgets, or having to worry about the game's rating/system requirements and going through Q&A testing. It's easy to make stuff look super high quality when it's a single mod you're working on because you enjoy making it, rather than having to make literally an upwards of 100 pieces of gear every 3 months which you may not enjoy the aesthetic of.

In addition, Square has to setup the coding, database entries and many other things that are already pre-established for modders to come in and basically plop something they've made over something existing.

Yes mods proved than SE is slacking on some aspects of the game.
Mainly texture quality and hair designs.
Textures are client side only so there shouldn't be a technical reason for not doing it.
It's not going to stress the servers as the textures are rendered by your local machine only.
Modders made HD hair textures (for all current hairstyles), HD eyes, face skins and the difference is big.
Unfortunately all the mods are character based only so there are no textures for environments and other objects yet.
SE can provide HD texture pack anytime they want.
I guess they already have all the assets in higher texture quality and they just downscale them in the final implementation.
Even if they didn't they can make an HD texture pack.
If individual modders can do it that means SE can do it as well.
It's time SE to reconsider some things.
The expansion will come in late 2019. The game already looks badly outdated thanks to its potato quality textures and by 2019-2020 it will be a joke.

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Originally Posted by Bahati

Has the "modding community" proved there is room for improvement that SE is not utilizing? Or is their work only impressive because it is "client side"?

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I think modders have certainly proved there's room for improvement (though this has nothing to do with client-side or not; virtually everything involving visuals and UI - the things modders tend to work with - is run client-side). I mean, really, let's consider that modders have managed to substantially improve certain character textures and hair textures, despite absolutely no assistance from SE at all. No mod tools, no character editor - and yet still, people have figured out how to improve on what SE builds. I can't even imagine what they'd do if given access to the modding tools available for titles like Fallout 4 or Skyrim.

That said, I don't completely fault SE, either. Sometimes, it's easier for a modder to accomplish something than a development team, for various reasons. I do fault SE on two fronts, though.

(1) There really should be an official high-definition texture pack. People with PS4 Pro / Xbox One X, and even more so people with higher-end PCs, can handle massively higher levels of detail than what we currently have. It's worth keeping in mind that FFXIV had superior textures on its 1.0 release back in 2010. Let that sink in: FFXIV had better-quality textures in 2010 than it does today. That's mind-blowing, and quite possibly a wholly unique situation across all of gaming. I realize that XIV 1.0 had performance issues back in the day, and that it was necessary to scale back elements of it in order to support the PS3, but for Hydaelyn's sake, none of these limitations apply for the PS4 or Xbox One, let alone modern PCs. SE needs to remedy this. It's almost certain that they have the high-resolution texture collateral stored in-house; typically what we get are downscaled versions of what is produced. Give us better stuff if we can handle it.

(2) SE should be crucified for its stance on user mods. They aren't alone here, either - most publishers and development teams should be ashamed of their approach, too. I still find it amazing that FFXI's Windower mod, which began as an effort to simply let PC users alt-tab out of FFXI smoothly, wasn't something SE was comfortable sanctioning. It's insane. Mods grow a game's community, mods improve a company's product - all for free. Start enabling them, rather than officially placing them on the same level as bots or RMT.

I'm not sure where this whole mod debate started as I just came back after a couple of month of time away but seems to me that mods will always fall into these categories if left unchecked or allowed by the game devs. Whether or not you agree these are great or terrible is personal preference.

1. QoL changes - Things that make the game better or that players wanted but because devs took too long or show no signs of "caring" they perform the task themselves. These can be small like UI fixes to bug fixes. DSfix is a good example of this.
2. Vanity Mods - People re-skin, move-set swap, change animations to make the game better or worse. While not game breaking at the start it can evolve into it. Skyrim with Machoman Randy Savage is a good example of this.
3. Rule 34 - nuff said
4. Stand-alone Mod - Modders use in-game assets to create their own game, mode, or story, separate (or parallel) to the current lore that the devs intended. The og Counter Strike is a good example of this.
5. In-game Mod - Basically hacking. It can be anything from altering code to make your avatar look different from what the devs intended, to out-right hacking other people's information.

I feel kind of bad for game developers today since they created an abusive "drug-culture" out of gaming. They constantly focus on getting players "hooked" offering superficial products to keep that "high" going while slowly "cutting" the product but charging more. It's the literally what is happening to most games today, FFXIV included. First one is always free then you have to pay to keep going. They are a business and they have no obligation to creative freedom outside of its monetary worth.

Going back to CS where Valve hired the guys who made the mod to join them and develop the game. I only wish that the same would happen to people in FFXIV who do such mods. If they implement a UI fix that is inherently better than the current one and in less time then give that person a job because they clearly have some talent for it. While both the devs and modders are fueled by passion the former is restricted by deadlines, budgets and superiors while the latter is not that's why most amateur mods made by people who love the game will always be on par or better than the devs.

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Originally Posted by Daeriion_Aeradiir

One of the biggest things to understand is that modders aren't constricted by deadlines, budgets, or having to worry about the game's rating/system requirements and going through Q&A testing. It's easy to make stuff look super high quality when it's a single mod you're working on because you enjoy making it, rather than having to make literally an upwards of 100 pieces of gear every 3 months which you may not enjoy the aesthetic of.

In addition, Square has to setup the coding, database entries and many other things that are already pre-established for modders to come in and basically plop something they've made over something existing.

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This, pure and simple. I mean it's the classic, "your job isn't so hard, even I can do it" or similarly the "grass is always greener" approach. Just because you perceive something as better or easy, doesn't mean it is.

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Originally Posted by Eloah

This, pure and simple. I mean it's the classic, "your job isn't so hard, even I can do it" or similarly the "grass is always greener" approach. Just because you perceive something as better or easy, doesn't mean it is.

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It's their job. They're getting more money from FFXIV than they used to due to the increase in micro-transactions and yet we're getting even less in terms of glamour and hairstyles with each new patch.

This isn't some struggling indie development studio operating out of a small office building. It's one of the giants in the industry.

Look, the modding community can do work, but it's not like this isn't stuff that is just done overnight. Some of it? small modifications, I am sure takes little or no time. However, SE has a lot on their plate developing the game and the system and a lot of other things.

You're acting like the cosmetic things that these people produce are done overnight. they're not. This is long hours of work that, unlike SE, they're not getting paid for. Having HD textures and the like aren't REQUIRED to enjoy the game. You can enjoy it just fine as is and most people do. I do.

Stop ripping on the overworked Development team, and while I see no issue with people wanting to mod, as long as it's Vanity Mods live and let live.

Mods are like Fight Club. Don't talk about them. By Constantly bringing them up, you're putting a focus on the community that makes them, makes the game enjoyable and simply making it so that SE is eyeing the entire community. Let them be. Live and Let live. Unless you're being harassed (and then don't take it out on the Modding community on the whole, but the jerk that did the harassing) by something, just let it go. Elsa did, now a lot more people need to Let. This. Go.

Mods generally are only seen by the people using them and they usually just replace something that was already in game. Whereas anything square makes needs to be seen by everyone, be made from scratch, and given its own place in the game . It really limits what they can do.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

It's their job. They're getting more money from FFXIV than they used to due to the increase in micro-transactions and yet we're getting even less in terms of glamour and hairstyles with each new patch.

This isn't some struggling indie development studio operating out of a small office building. It's one of the giants in the industry.

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You missed the point entirely.