End game, why?

Why do people care more about end game than the middle to lower game? CoP era anyone? So, why does everyone focus on the end stuff when the middle is just as good or better, even the devs do this.

Ba doom ch!

Because long-term objectives are needed. End of the story
low and mid-term ar nice and required too, but one don't remain 35 forever

Middle stuff is not good enough for us with several lvl50's, at least for the moment they should add high level stuff to have all of us busy enough and low level players having a goal and look forward to be 50

The end is the beginning is the end...

Haven't we already answered this question multiple times already?

Well, why focus on just one group? What about the people just starting, they should get content as well.

Low levels have Shposhae. Low levels have Toto-Rak. But nearly nobody is lower level anymore. Probably 95% of the active population has numerous 50's.That's why focus on one group. If they want to keep 95% of their current paying population, they need to keep us entertained.

Edit: Hates myself for posting in troll thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

Why do people care more about end game than the middle to lower game? CoP era anyone? So, why does everyone focus on the end stuff when the middle is just as good or better, even the devs do this.

---

Simple Answer:

You will spend more Time on "End Game", then on low/middle Content. That has nothing to do with Stuff like CoP, since CoP was also some kind Endgame. In example: Bahamut II, the CoP Storyline including Tenzen etc etc. It was a long progress to get it done, when it came live. So even if we would consider the CoP-Stuff as "Middle/Low", then we have to admit that FFXIV dont have something similiar yet. We simply would have to wait for an Add-on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aistaraina

Low levels have Shposhae. Low levels have Toto-Rak. But nearly nobody is lower level anymore. Probably 95% of the active population has numerous 50's.That's why focus on one group. If they want to keep 95% of their current paying population, they need to keep us entertained.

Edit: Hates myself for posting in troll thread.

---

I would be more incline to stay if they gave a good variety of things to do within each level range. Especially if they did something like this. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...dgame-content.
Good thing I'm not trolling, I'm just wondering.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

Why do people care more about end game than the middle to lower game? CoP era anyone? So, why does everyone focus on the end stuff when the middle is just as good or better, even the devs do this.

---

They don't, the average player spend their entire play time in the middle of the game because when they reach the End Game, expansions are added to create a new end game.

It is quite literally only the vocal minority that actively play end game. Most other players only want it as something to work toward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiote

They don't, the average player spend their entire play time in the middle of the game because when they reach the End Game, expansions are added to create a new end game.

It is quite literally only the vocal minority that actively play end game. Most other players only want it as something to work toward.

---

What games are you playing? Doesn't sound like anything I've played before.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

Why do people care more about end game than the middle to lower game? CoP era anyone? So, why does everyone focus on the end stuff when the middle is just as good or better, even the devs do this.

---

first of all there is no real endgame in game now. me focusing on lvl 30 dungeon: wow i got the best lvl 30 build in game im so awesome i smoked that dungeon. the best gear is the highest lvl gear most often dropped by endgame content, thats why poeple care. Mid game is like, oh cool i got this bow for free, now i dont have to buy one. use it a few lvls, trash it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RemVye

Doesn't sound like anything I've played before.

---

That's because you are the least informed person to ever post on a forum in history.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiote

That's because you are the least informed person to ever post on a forum in history.

---

That's truly a compliment. I've touched your heart and filled it with love. You make me blush.

Shoot.. my boss is telling me stop laughing so loud, brb.


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...CU__ar0R9sfTjA

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aistaraina

Low levels have Shposhae. Low levels have Toto-Rak. But nearly nobody is lower level anymore. Probably 95% of the active population has numerous 50's.That's why focus on one group. If they want to keep 95% of their current paying population, they need to keep us entertained.

Edit: Hates myself for posting in troll thread.

---

Agreed when the ps3 newbies come in we'll get some new low level stuff.

Gath believes that some mid game content is decent.

Gath also thinks that any mid game content should lead up to end game content.

Gath noticed that you stated CoP as mid game. Yes, this is true but only to a certain extent. CoP lead to end game content and was used thus more so than it's mid game because it led up to Sea.

Gath believes there should be a plethora of end game, much more than there is mid game.

Gath states that the content we are currently getting now is actually "mid game" content. When 2.0 comes out and they finally raise the level cap it will more than likely stay that way for a bit and we will get our end game. Nobody cares about anything below 50 really. If they do they're in the minority.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

maybe if it took more then a couple days to lvl mid lvl content would make sense.

do you guys wanna take a break to go do lvl 30 dungeon before we hit 50. hmmm. nope. k.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gath

Gath believes that some mid game content is decent.

Gath also thinks that any mid game content should lead up to end game content.

Gath noticed that you stated CoP as mid game. Yes, this is true but only to a certain extent. CoP lead to end game content and was used thus more so than it's mid game because it led up to Sea.

Gath believes there should be a plethora of end game, much more than there is mid game.

Gath states that the content we are currently getting now is actually "mid game" content. When 2.0 comes out and they finally raise the level cap it will more than likely stay that way for a bit and we will get our end game. Nobody cares about anything below 50 really. If they do they're in the minority.

Gath's 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

---

Gath Founder Of FFXIV Core Has Spoken. He Is Wise. Rem Likes His Chicken Spicy.

Rems Friend Gath Has 1 Gil That Is Worth More Than Your 1 Gil.

I don't think CoP counts as mid-level content because of how difficult it was and the fact that the level cap went up by 10 every couple missions. If you did it while leveling up it was bound to be stupid difficult or maybe you didn't have a job leveled that was good for those fights, or you had to wait a while and level which caused some large breaks in the story.

Job quests are going to be mid to high level content. Shposhae is great and the low levels go by quick enough that you will get to companies and job quests in a reasonable amount of time. If anything I think a dungeon in the mid 30's would be fine to add, but as was stated, we need some long-lasting endgame stuff to have something to work towards and keep us occupied.

short: It's like getting off the bus at the corner with the cracked sidewalk and the spray paint on the buildings, walking up the decrepit stairwell in your apartment, and getting to your unit. And your unit is absofanfreakin'tastic, because you're spending the most time there, so you want to focus the most energy into fixing it up.

original message: With today's MMOs and the people who play them, the leveling seems to happen much faster. Information about efficient exp methods, guides to dungeons and fights, searchable item databases, all of this happens much faster now. And then a game that doesn't have the same slow movement, slow combat, long respawn times, death penalties (deleveling and corpse runs), hell levels, plus learning curve for playing fairly "new" genre.
(mostly referring to Everquest I)

Mid-level content back then was a zone, mobs, a handful of rare spawns, and some drops that made said-spawns get camped to death.

In FFXIV though, players that end up in an XP party end up leveling at such a frequency, that they don't even update their equipment. With many of the parties still succeeding with a mish-mash of old equipment AND the rate that they level, it wanes at the desire for gear acquisition. They don't stick around these levels long enough to make the dungeon a challenge. And with the rate they're leveling, the dungeon won't be a challenge. If dungeons were the best way to obtain EXP, we might have more focus on that content.

Incoherent post, returning to message after a while, hitting post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

short: It's like getting off the bus at the corner with the cracked sidewalk and the spray paint on the buildings, walking up the decrepit stairwell in your apartment, and getting to your unit. And your unit is absofanfreakin'tastic, because you're spending the most time there, so you want to focus the most energy into fixing it up.

original message: With today's MMOs and the people who play them, the leveling seems to happen much faster. Information about efficient exp methods, guides to dungeons and fights, searchable item databases, all of this happens much faster now. And then a game that doesn't have the same slow movement, slow combat, long respawn times, death penalties (deleveling and corpse runs), hell levels, plus learning curve for playing fairly "new" genre.
(mostly referring to Everquest I)

Mid-level content back then was a zone, mobs, a handful of rare spawns, and some drops that made said-spawns get camped to death.

In FFXIV though, players that end up in an XP party end up leveling at such a frequency, that they don't even update their equipment. With many of the parties still succeeding with a mish-mash of old equipment AND the rate that they level, it wanes at the desire for gear acquisition. They don't stick around these levels long enough to make the dungeon a challenge. And with the rate they're leveling, the dungeon won't be a challenge. If dungeons were the best way to obtain EXP, we might have more focus on that content.

Incoherent post, returning to message after a while, hitting post.

---

I think the problem with a lot of people here is that they don't think you can have fun unless you're leveling. Maybe I'm wrong but it sure seems that way to me. I spent about 4 months at level 30ish on my CNJ because the only thing I did was help people fight the mid level wandering NMs for gear drops. That's a heck of a lot of playing without gaining levels, and I wasn't even close to being maxed at 50. Things do happen faster for all of the reasons you listed, but I think if people stopped looking at it all as a negative, and instead found their own way to enjoy things then this problem wouldn't even exist.

Level 50 is endgame now. Pretty soon it'll be mid-lvl content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Answa

Level 50 is endgame now. Pretty soon it'll be mid-lvl content.

---

Thank you. I was just about to post that.

Lv50 isn't going to be the end-level for a very long time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Answa

Level 50 is endgame now. Pretty soon it'll be mid-lvl content.

---

My concern with that it will fall into the same category as the Shposhae or Toto'rak once level cap is shown.

But then again, it's supposedly only til' 2.0. And if das da case, I can dig it.

*starts dancing like that Stop saying rank gif*

Its time management, the average person now is in college, or has a family, or works, or all three, we're not in high school anymore with tons of time. Given this amount of time, most people would like to cut out a lengthy grind and put in more endgame. I'd love lots of things like the Ifrit fight due to college, but I'd like some long grind COP type stuff for summer, when I don't have as much to do. FFXIV needs to put both types of content in, its understandable no one has 8 hours to level a day, for six months, and then they don't have the same amount of time to put into the end game content as the avg gamer is 36, ffxiv players are typically over 21. But the long grind end game, people think thats dead, it doesn't have to be, XIV could add it, we'd still find the time to do even in our busy schedules. I understand if this version of the game sucks and it can't be done, but in 2.0 it should be done.

Because. That's why.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

Well, why focus on just one group? What about the people just starting, they should get content as well.

---

they already have enough content to explode and not counting what else they get in 1.21

They had an opportunity when this game started to do away with the overdone leveling format altogether. If they made it about gathering abilities and attaching the stat +\-'s (ie. HP, MP, Str, Dex etc.) to those abilities rather than a traditional leveling system they would have been able to tie most of the content together. Most of the content...low, mid and high level has virtually no relation to one another. It is all very loosely connected through some vague half-baked story. With the system I am describing above, you eliminate linear game play and the feel of the grind. This game is fairly heavy in both categories with linking storyline quests to the levels obtained. So much for setting a new standard in the MMO world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

Why do people care more about end game than the middle to lower game? So, why does everyone focus on the end stuff when the middle is just as good or better, even the devs do this.

---

Umm lets see.....Because to level all DOW/M and do all the class quest and main story line can be very very easily done in 2 months. if someone plays the game for say 5 years, how much of that time can reasonably be said is spent at the bigening or middle of the game as you called it? Even at 2 years, most time is spent looking for things to do endgame.

BECAUSE YOU PAY TO PLAY--------- ........ I'am paying for this game and Have nothing to do- I'am currently nearly all rank 50 and have nothing else to do-------------- I don't want to pay for a game and do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over----- Crafting..... crafting..... crafting..... Something new something fun every day---- If you can't meet that expectation especially if we pay for it??? Then give us something that will be fun challenging and that take's time until you can make a new update- By you I mean SE.

I see this in all the MMO's I've ever seen: 1 low-mid level update per 50 high level updates. That concept seems completely out of balance though, even if everyone and their grandmothers do have 10 50s. There are a lot of ways to make content that don't rely on high level combat skills. Low-mid level content doesn't have to be boring either. Things that require intelligence and are interesting, they can be just as entertaining as taking down Ifrit for the thousandth time. And, while Yoshi-P may not want the crafters and gatherers to be directly saving the world, that doesn't mean they should miss out on new content completely (new recipes not withstanding, it's still grind>leve>grind>sell>grind no matter what your ingredients and end products are).

Maybe more creative and interesting things will be implemented in the future, maybe they won't. I just hope that the devs don't forget about everything possible pre-lvl45. I'd like to do some puzzle solving (maybe play a card game with NPC's outside of quests) or see someone push a boulder off a cliff onto a huge mite or something below - just something different that isn't level 50 combatants only.

By the way, I've said all of this from the point of view of someone with multiple 50s in combat jobs, my highest DoH/DoL class is in the low 20s, and I've had no serious grievances with end game loot; I just prefer interesting things over battles which I don't find fun at all. To me, Final Fantasy games aren't about boring fighting; they're about interesting characters, interesting storylines, interesting sub quests, interesting mini games, interesting places to explore. "Interesting" and "boring" are both very relative, personal terms and you may completely disagree with me on every place I've used them, but I think all MMO's should cater to a wide range of interests (be they intellectual or creative or combative or emotional), and that it's in catering to different interests that opens up so much possibility for the low-mid level content.

To put it nicely. Low to mid level content is put in games to grab people interest at the start. Endgame is put in to keep people's interest when they reach cap and prolong the game. The goal of a MMO is to keep people playing as long as possible. If they just made a bunch of low/mid level content and less endgame.

What is the point of even leveling to cap?
What do you do after you hit cap?

It's needed yes. But needed more then endgame? no. You need just enough to keep people interested until they reach cap. Real simple logic. If there is nothing to do once you reach the cap. People will lose interest and quit the game. You seriously expect a game to last 5+ years with no content for high level? and a bunch for low level? Low/mid level content is much better for Single player games where there is an end after you reach cap. Not for a MMO where you try to keep people playing as long as possible to keep getting money.

Also, a good way to alleviate the sense that low-mid-level content seems futile, put level caps on their instances.

Here is an example. Lets say instead of 2 new 50 Dudgeon's, It was a 15 and a 30. What do you think would happen?

You think everyone will go spam these Dudgeon's on there level 50s for 3 months and be happy?
You think people are going to go make new characters to play these dudgeon's and be happy?
Do you think people are going to stay and do Moogle's for 3 more months for weapons they don't need and be happy?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xianghua

To put it nicely. Low to mid level content is put in games to grab people interest at the start. Endgame is put in to keep people's interest when they reach cap and prolong the game. The goal of a MMO is to keep people playing as long as possible. If they just made a bunch of low/mid level content and less endgame.

What is the point of even leveling to cap?
What do you do after you hit cap?

It's needed yes. But needed more then endgame? no. You need just enough to keep people interested until they reach cap. Real simple logic. If there is nothing to do once you reach the cap. People will lose interest and quit the game. You seriously expect a game to last 5+ years with no content for high level? and a bunch for low level? Low/mid level content is much better for Single player games where there is an end after you reach cap. Not for a MMO where you try to keep people playing as long as possible to keep getting money.

---

I don't really see why it has to be an almost completely either/or situation o.o

The current setup is vastly tipped towards end game combat content with a little bit of content for other level ranges and non combat classes. I don't think that that ratio should be reversed so that there's nothing to do once you hit 50, but I do think it shouldn't be quite such a hugely skewed ratio. Turn that "little bit" into a sizable "some" for those other areas, with a bigger "some more" for those who have Ifrit eating out of their hand (or paw for those kitties out there).

the need lv50 stuff to do other than the usual endgame

Quote:

---

Here is an example. Lets say instead of 2 new 50 Dudgeon's, It was a 15 and a 30. What do you think would happen?

---

reason the need lv caps on the lower stuff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mbncd

I don't really see why it has to be an almost completely either/or situation o.o

The current setup is vastly tipped towards end game combat content with a little bit of content for other level ranges and non combat classes. I don't think that that ratio should be reversed so that there's nothing to do once you hit 50, but I do think it shouldn't be quite such a hugely skewed ratio. Turn that "little bit" into a sizable "some" for those other areas, with a bigger "some more" for those who have Ifrit eating out of their hand (or paw for those kitties out there).

---

And it should be and will be most likely. Right now SE is trying to keep those still playing. They simply can not do that if they made Low/mid level content. Level 50s wouldn't have anything to do and quit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

the need lv50 stuff to do other than the usual endgame


reason the need lv caps on the lower stuff

---

Once you reach cap and beat the main story you technically beat the game. Everything after that can be considered "endgame".

So Level caps is going to make all the 50's want to do low level dudgeon's for gear that they are to high to use?
Do you really expect people to do these level cap dudgeon's just to do them for 3 months?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xianghua

And it should be and will be most likely. Right now SE is trying to keep those still playing. They simply can not do that if they made Low/mid level content. Level 50s wouldn't have anything to do and quit.

---

If the content is interesting, regardless of level, people will do it regardless of level. If level 50s are interested in it, there's no reason for them to quit over it. Also there are multiple teams working on various different projects all the time. There's nothing to say that a piece of low-mid level content would replace working time on higher level content, you'd still get your Garuda or whatever at the same time as was originally proposed, there'd just be other things with it. Thus if they aren't interested in one aspect of a particular patch, they just play the part they are interested in.

I know I'm not going to be playing the PvP content when it gets released, simply because I'm not interested in that sort of experience, but I don't think that PvP should be put off or cancelled because others will find it interesting. At that time, I'll simply enjoy something else from that (or even a previous) patch that I will enjoy. But if everything became PvP to the exclusion of all else, that's something I might quit over. Variety is essential to keeping a wide range of players (or customers) happy, especially for the long term.