Verholy and Verflare

I finally got my RDM to 70 and gained Verholy, I'm wondering, when I get them to proc, which I should use at what time?

You want to use the spell aligned with the mana pool you have the least of.

For instance, if you have less white mana than black mana, you use Verholy. If you have less black mana than white mana, use Verflare. If, say, you have less white mana than black mana, but verstone is already procced, you can use verflare if it won't set your mana >30 points apart.

That's what I thought, thanks!

Also, if you can, try to set it up before you do your melee combo to not have the proc for the mana type of the finisher you're going to use. This usually happens organically, but it's possible to inadvertently do if you aren't paying attention. If you do happen to have it, then it's better to use the opposite one to at least get the 30% proc chance.

E.g. if you have 90 white mana and 80 black mana then you would normally want to use the Verflare finisher and try to set it up so that you don't have Verfire procced when you start your melee combo. But if for some reason you've left yourself with an active Verfire proc then do the Verholy finisher for the 30% chance to proc Verstone instead, since the 100% proc chance of the Verflare finisher will be wasted.

You have to be careful if using the opposite finisher in this situation though, since it can result in putting your mana out of balance, since you already have more mana of that type and the finisher adds a large chunk. The better advice is to try to line up your mana levels to line up with your active procs on the last two casts before your melee combo.

If you are already Ver-Ready in the lower school, you can use the Verfinisher for the higher school as long as it's not +10 or more over the lower one. Anything up to and including +9 is okay. Be sure to use the lower Verfastspell next, though, because you if you use the higher one, you will go out of balance.

This is okay regardless of if you have Acceleration ready or not, but if it is available, use Acceleration before E.Redoublement to guarantee the proc. (It doesn't need to be before E.Redoublement for it to work, but if you're in the habit of Displacing immediately after a Verfinisher, you'll end up delaying your Verfinisher if you use both Displacement and Acceleration in the same GCD, so use Acceleration earlier)

If you already have both Ver-Ready procs, you can use the Verfinisher for the lower school or the Verfinisher for the proc that has the lower duration. For example, if you have both procs and White is +9 over Black, but Verstone Ready is at 10s, it might be a good idea to use Verholy to refresh the proc. This can be useful if you know the boss is about to jump, and you don't have time to use the old proc.

Actually having a proc just before your mellee could help to set up a second verflare or verholy while still under your embolden.
I rarely have issues getting 2 verflare/holy under 1 embolden

So do you try to cast past 80/80 to get an extra proc before starting a melee combo?

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

So do you try to cast past 80/80 to get an extra proc before starting a melee combo?

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It's situational. You want to set up so every two minutes you'll get, or be close to getting, a double emboldened verfinisher; you don't actually need to play the proc game too hard even then though, because double weaving swift + accel can get you from going pretty fast no matter what. For when I'm going for my double, I generally try to actually get as close to 100/99 as I can within reason so I'm two GCDs from just back-to-backing my melee combo.

Outside of that two minute window, you do generally want to just burn at 80/80 though in my experience.

So do you use Embolden in your opener for raid buffing everyone or do you save it for a double Verfinisher? Cuz I thought Manifcation is used at the start to frontload your damage.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

So do you use Embolden in your opener for raid buffing everyone or do you save it for a double Verfinisher? Cuz I thought Manifcation is used at the start to frontload your damage.

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For the opener you definitely use it to buff raid damage. I tend to wait until 6th GCD to pop my embolden to best match my NIN's trick attack to get the most bang for the raid's buck; it also helps in lining embo up with tricks from then on. Usually my manafy is only two to four GCDs away from that point, procs pending (this is off-the-top-of-my-head atm).

You already know about starting with precasted veraero/thunder, correct?

Depends on the fight, as if you get closer to 99 you can then fit 2 verflares/holy under 1 embolden.
That is why in the instance that mana is high enough i keep a proc active for after the finisher this way can get back up there for a 2nd combo as manification brings me back up to 80 :)
Dualgunner is correct you do want to precast as well for your opener

Eh the times I get a double Verfinisher under Embolden it's at like 1 Stack with 4 seconds left, so that's what 2% damage?

Yes but it all adds up in the end, every bit helps

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

Eh the times I get a double Verfinisher under Embolden it's at like 1 Stack with 4 seconds left, so that's what 2% damage?

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Well, it's not a lot, but if you do it three or four times over the course of the fight it's a few thousand damage. I'd put it in the same category as playing RDM as a melee DD: sure, it's only a few thousand damage over the course of the fight, but it's a few thousand more damage than the RDM who's parked out in left field for the majority of the fight.

Without Manafication

Code:

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Action            Mana    Procs    Embolden    Potency (Bonus)      Notes
(Start)            99|100  -|F
(Embolden)        99|100  -|F      10% 19.3s                          -0.7s oGCD animation lock
E.Riposte          69|70  -|F      10% 17.8s    231    (21)
E.Zwerchhau        44|45  -|F      10% 16.3s    319    (29)
E.Redboublement    19|20  -|F      10\ 14.1s    517    (47)          Embolden drops to 8% after cast
Verholy            40|20  S|F      8\ 11.7s    594    (44)          Embolden drops to 6% after cast
Verfire            40|29  S|-      6%  9.3s    286.2  (16.2)
DC Verthunder      40|40  S|?      6\  6.9s    318    (18)          Embolden drops to 4% after cast
Verstone          49|40  -|?      4%  4.5s    280.8  (10.8)
DC Veraero        60|40  ?|?      4\  2.1s    312    (12)          Embolden drops to 2% after cast
(Swiftcast - best case scenario)
Verthunder        60|51  ?|?      2\  ---    306    ( 6)          Embolden expires after cast

                                        Total: 3,164  (204)
                                        Embolden bonus%: 6.892%

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With Manafication

Code:

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Action            Mana    Procs    Embolden    Potency (Bonus)      Notes
(Start)            99|100  -|F
(Embolden)        99|100  -|F      10% 19.3s                          -0.7s oGCD animation lock
E.Riposte          69|70  -|F      10% 17.8s    231    (21)
E.Zwerchhau        44|45  -|F      10% 16.3s    319    (29)
E.Redboublement    19|20  -|F      10\ 14.1s    517    (47)          Embolden drops to 8% after cast
Verholy            40|20  S|F      8\ 11.7s    594    (44)          Embolden drops to 6% after cast
Verfire            40|29  S|-      6%  9.3s    286.2  (16.2)
DC Verthunder      40|40  S|?      6\  6.9s    318    (18)          Embolden drops to 4% after cast
(Manafication)    80|80  S|?
E.Riposte          50|50  S|?      4%  5.4s    218.7  ( 8.7)
E.Zwerchhau        25|25  S|?      4\  3.9s    301.6  (11.6)        Embolden drops to 2% after cast
(Acceleration if not Verfire Ready)
E.Redoublement      0|0    S|?      2%  1.7s    479.4  ( 9.4)
Verflare            0|21  S|F      2\  ---    561    (11)          Embolden expires after cast

                                        Total: 3,825.9 (215.9)
                                        Embolden bonus%: 5.981%

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