Garlemald - Language

A friend of mine keep having this 'argument', so maybe some of you can help settle it.

Friend pretty much is convinced that Garlemald has their own language, considering how nationalist they are, their credo according to Lorebook being in another language than those of the City States, and that they would never accept speaking the same language as 'savages'.

From my understanding, most of the spoken races are using the same common tongue, with a few exceptions such as the Beast Tribes/Dragons which are explicitely stated to have their own language. The immense work for the dev team needed to make Garlemald use their own language at times aside, I think we would already have been told if they had a Garlean Language.

Maybe Garlemald uses the same common tongue, but with some fancy latin phrases thrown in, like some European countries did during the Middle Age?

What do you think? Does Garlemald have their own language, do they not or ist it up to speculation just because?

Garleans dont say nice, they say
*linked gif censored*

...but seriously yes I agree and believe they are using they're own seperate language.

Garlemald is to Latin as Doma is to Japanese.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Garlemald is to Latin as Doma is to Japanese.

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Yeah, they are influenced by it, but does that necessarily mean they speak the languages? Non-Echo-Users could understand all of the Doman refugees that arrived, and I doubt that they all would fluently speak Eorzean as a second language.

Generally it's assumed that places like Doma and Kugane speak japanese. I'm sure the devs mentioned something like this at some stage?, and Garlemald is the only known region (the others we know of are in eorzea so they speak the common tongue) that has a different language for their states motto and almost everything named by garleans is in latin so that is a pretty good case to be made. The question is does everyone know the common tongue and just use their main language amongst themselves or has the whole language thing been largely retconned or ignored for convenience?

Not seeing the language spoken in text is unfortunately poor evidence that the language does not exist. For example, the Xaela of the Steppe continue to speak the old Auri tongue to this day and we only get the odd Mongolian word here and there.

Present indications suggest that Latin is to Garlean what English is to the Eorzean Common Tongue (Hyuran) what Japanese is to Hingan, though we have no guarantees they've not adopted the common tongue for modern-day use for the sake of convenience in the larger empire (and eventually player convenience), lol.

To add to this, the majority of the Garlean forces we encounter are absorbed from conquered nations. We have only spoken to a few pure blooded garleans in comparison, and with the amount of nations they have absorbed it makes sense that they would at least have an understanding of some foreign languages.

Latin is likely their official language based on the names of some ranks in their military and factions use Latin. We'll unlikely get to see it used outside of theme namings though; Hingashi, Yanxia and Azim Steppes all are said to have their own languages yet everyone and their great grandmothers still speak Eorzean and not just to Echo users either. Player conveniences and SE's to be sure.

Is Alltongue a common feature of the Echo? I was under the impression that it was how the Echo works for some people who aren't us, like Krile.

Oh, "All-tongue" definetly works for us. That's the in-game explanation for why we don't see/hear a difference between the languages of the different reasons as it is. Krile's is just so good she can talk to animals.

Languages we know of so far... Huyrian, Roegadyn, Lallafelian, Garlean, Auri (multiples even), Doman...

Languages are simply not discussed much in the game, it's probably just left out in the writing, similar to how we don't see evidence of time-zone differences.
It could be explained by the existence of a common international language, perhaps Allagan, which is likely the root of most current languages.
If it's Allagan, it'd make sense if the Garleans picked that up as their national language as well, makes it easy to study relics after all.

I do find it a little awkward that the only time we actually hear a foreign language being spoken is with the Ascians.

It is it noted that there's a common tongue used by most of the spoken (Beastmen included). It takes a little suspension of disbelief to accept that seemingly everyone happens to know this language, though, since while the Echo can allow one to understand one's words without knowing a language, I can't recall a single time where this was actually in play and someone present with us was bewildered by what someone was saying while we could understand it just fine.

There was when Sophia's Demiurges confronted us and were speaking Meracydian with only us, Krile, (and presumably Unukalhai understanding it) while Urianger noted it sounded like older Meracydian and Y'shtola couldn't understand at all.

Then there is Alpha where even with the Echo we couldn't understand him. We had to have a translator there. I think there was even an earlier example than the Waring Triad where an npc was all oh yeah you can understand this beastman because of the Echo.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I can't recall a single time where this was actually in play and someone present with us was bewildered by what someone was saying while we could understand it just fine.

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Aside from the above mentions of Alpha and the Demiurges, this scenario did actually happen at one point in 1.0 where the player character was used as a translator for Sylphs. I can't recall if the Ashcrown Consortium spoke Sylvan too, but I definitely remember Minfilia being unable to understand ...? Despite her Echo (thus exemplifying how unique ours was with the whole memory jumping & alltongue)

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Originally Posted by Rocl

Aside from the above mentions of Alpha and the Demiurges, this scenario did actually happen at one point in 1.0 where the player character was used as a translator for Sylphs. I can't recall if the Ashcrown Consortium spoke Sylvan too, but I definitely remember Minfilia being unable to understand ...? Despite her Echo (thus exemplifying how unique ours was with the whole memory jumping & alltongue)

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That is indeed correct - it showed Minfilia's talent in the Echo was actually weaker than the player character's (who could both view another's memories and had xenoglossia, where as Minfilia could only view another's memories). In fact, speaking of the 1.0 Waking Sands, there was a minor npc in the Path of the Twelve who stated he lacked the normal Echo ability of being able to view the past, but specifically had the power of xenoglossia, which he had made actually into a profitable venture for himself.

In fact, this Echo-ability to understand any language without having learned it was the first clue in the 1.0 Gridanian storyline that something very strange was going on (when the player could understand when a moogle was insulting them in Mooglespeak which resulted in a very bemused apology from E-Sumi Yan. Having said that, that same scene also revealed that Yda and Papalymo also knew Mooglespeak, but it was pretty clear in their case it was not because of the Echo but simply years and years of study (presumably that was part of their preparation prior to being sent to Gridania by Louisoix to ascertain Gridania's political situation).

Sadly, it seems the Echo's gift of language seems to have been mostly been handwaved away in ARR - as others have mentioned language problems rarely seems to pop up now in the story, unlike in 1.0 where it was specifically used as a reason (or was that just an excuse?) for the sadly long history of antagonism between the citystates and the beastmen.

In fact, the ability to speak the beast tribe languages was the Garlean's original excuse for hunting down Echo users - to them, that made them a beastman as well, and thus a Primal-summoning monster to be destroyed. Of course that was before they found out about the Echo's immunity to tempering, but it was a different time then prior to the Calamity. :p

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

In fact, the ability to speak the beast tribe languages was the Garlean's original excuse for hunting down Echo users - to them, that made them a beastman as well, and thus a Primal-summoning monster to be destroyed.

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This citation has always bothered me a bit; the phrasing is wonky as literally translated as it was.

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You see, in the eyes of the Empire, the ability to communicate with the beast tribes makes you one of them.

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"If you speak a beastman tongue, then the Empire thinks you're a beastman!" ... :confused:

The word used was 蛮族 (savage tribe). The distinction seems moot at first, but 蛮族 is the real-world word for "barbarian". That's the the play on words: in Eorzea, these tribal, uncivilized ... primal ... "barbarians" actually are beast-men.

The spirit of the claim seems to have been merely that the Garleans view the beast tribes as savages and anyone who would trade with them, speak their tongue, associate with them at all, must necessarily be swept under the umbrella of the enemies of order, for they are also savages. The journal says merely that "they, too, will be branded by the Empire as heathens".

EDIT: OHEY

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Originally Posted by Asahi sas Brutus

蛮族どもの英雄め……。

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Literally: "Hero of the barbarians..."
Localized: "Mark me, savior of the savages."

Honestly, language is usually the one thing developpers dont tend to develop and make too realistic as it would makes conversation with anything non local quite complicated.

While they all speak the same common tongue, this is obviously for convenience.
Closest nation could have language similarities, like French and Italian. But the further you'd go the more different the language would become.


So yes it is extremely fair to assume that in a more realistic scenario Garlemald would have their own language.

Same for the Alagan empire, how convenient that every time we encounter something from that old time we can understand them whereas in reality, depending on the language you only have to go back 200 years to get an almost entirely different language. (For instance Japanese is a language that changed extremely fast)

Language change the faster when the community lives in a time where education is poor. (basically common speech is dialect speed and since there's no authority to say what's right or wrong, changes occur very quick). So After the Alagan empire crashed, you should have technically had a quick language evolution. Fast forwards a few millenia to our present time, it should be a totally different language with some recogisable roots for some basic words.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Not seeing the language spoken in text is unfortunately poor evidence that the language does not exist. For example, the Xaela of the Steppe continue to speak the old Auri tongue to this day and we only get the odd Mongolian word here and there.

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I've actually been wondering about that. Obviously, the WoL has the Echo, so we can understand everyone, but Lyse, Gosetsu, and Hien don't have the Echo, yet they can converse with the Xaela just fine--including the Mol kids. How is that possible?

I just chalk it up to narrative convenience that seemingly everyone has common as their first language instead of their native tongue.

There really isn't any logical explanation for it, since I don't think the Xaela tribes make contact with outsiders often enough to warrant learning it as their primary language. Probably even less so for the various types of beastmen who more often then not detest the races of man, though there may be some precedent for them wanting to learn it simply so they'll think more highly of them, as the Matanga are noted as having been mistreated by the Garleans due to their difficulty with speaking the tongues of man, which led to them being viewed as mere beasts.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I just chalk it up to narrative convenience that seemingly everyone has common as their first language instead of their native tongue.

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That makes sense; it's just confusing because the lore book specifically mentioned that the Xaela tribes still speak their own language.

They might just be referring to how they make ample use of Xaela/Mongolian words in their everyday speech, which might be considered unusual as Hingan/Japanese seems to be the dominant secondary language everywhere else in Othard.

Just as Hingans speak the in-game equivalent of Japanese I have little doubt that Pureblood Garleans speak the in-game equivalent of Latin. It is but a question as to whether the language is taught in-depth to citizens and conscripts of Garlemald. It could be something fairly exclusive - nobody is really taught Latin in the UK if they go to a state school but it's very common for it to be taught at private schools. (You can imagine my puzzlement when I graduated and realised that only a tiny portion of the population actually spoke Latin! Yet I digress...)

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Oh, "All-tongue" definetly works for us. That's the in-game explanation for why we don't see/hear a difference between the languages of the different reasons as it is. Krile's is just so good she can talk to animals.

Languages we know of so far... Huyrian, Roegadyn, Lallafelian, Garlean, Auri (multiples even), Doman...

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Miqo'te got their own as well. All Keeper names (and I guess Seeker names as well) are based on that language, and it's explicitely mentioned that it's really hard for non-Miqo'te to make some of the sounds those names are comprised of, e.g. that 'h' most of them have in them (like, for example, Okhi). Also, the lorebook mentions they took on common quite early on, but still use parts of their own language in, for example, hunting.