Vote Dismiss Abuse

Can someone explain to me how I'm supposed to report a player for vote dismissing when I was kicked out of the blue, I was playing properly, no deaths, no arguing, no afking. This was during an alliance raid mind you, so I couldn't really name anyone because it could be anyone out of 24 people.

I recently had a chat with a GM and they said they couldn't investigate since I couldn't name a player?

Why can't we have the name of the person who initiated the vote to dismiss if GM's can't follow up on a report.

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Originally Posted by Damun

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1: You have a contacts page under social - that shows the most recent players you encountered..you'll find your name there.
2: It's only abuse if you where treated poor...such as smack talked/bullied etc.

Beyond that....the system works as intended...if you where vote kicked...you cant do much about it aside from talking to a GM.

We tried kicking an idiot white mage out of sigma 3 just now who was a mentor but obviously had no clue what what to do...but the party was heavily against the OTHER white mage who was doing the job of 2 healers......

People tend to be foolish and misunderstand/not pay attention.... the system is a roll of the dice at best....all you can do is just adapt..and move forward.

You can't find the name of who initiated the kick, but you can look at the contacts menu. Chances are if you were kicked for no reason:
- Someone was parsing and decided you weren't good enough, ridiculous in a 24-man alliance.
- Someone checked your gear and decided you were undergeared.
- Someone kicked the wrong person.

If you were in a party where most/all of the players were in their own discord/fc communications channel, that is another possibility, but that still isn't a good reason for a kick.

As for figuring out who, you can check the lodestone of everyone from the last party, and look to see if they're in the same FC/server, or if you suspect parsing, just check the site where they submit their parses to.

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Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi

You can't find the name of who initiated the kick, but you can look at the contacts menu. Chances are if you were kicked for no reason:
- Someone was parsing and decided you weren't good enough, ridiculous in a 24-man alliance.
- Someone checked your gear and decided you were undergeared.
- Someone kicked the wrong person.

If you were in a party where most/all of the players were in their own discord/fc communications channel, that is another possibility, but that still isn't a good reason for a kick.

As for figuring out who, you can check the lodestone of everyone from the last party, and look to see if they're in the same FC/server, or if you suspect parsing, just check the site where they submit their parses to.

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All true..but the GM only needs to know the names....and can see the logs from there. Granted if it was a full party - its a long list...but its enough. Course we don't know ALL the details...but its there none-the-less.

I still think the system needs adjustment.

As for

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Beyond that....the system works as intended...if you where vote kicked...you cant do much about it aside from talking to a GM.

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Then why does the game continue to express that vote dismissing besides the listed reasons is a volation of the ToS?

Additional Tip:

Vote Dismiss cannot be initiated while in combat OR while there are items that need to be lotted on.

If you are getting a sketch feeling from your PARTY, it's only the other ppl in your party that can vote kick you not the other alliances, then just don't lot on anything until combat with the next boss has been initiated, then open the next chest immediately after the boss has been defeated. Rinse and repeat through dungeon.

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

All true..but the GM only needs to know the names....and can see the logs from there. Granted if it was a full party - its a long list...but its enough. Course we don't know ALL the details...but its there none-the-less.

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It's only 7 people, so not that long of a list, and I'm pretty sure they can see what players hit yes on the vote dismiss function. Just report the group (3 people dungeons/7 people raids) and tell them that the majority of them kicked wrongly and let the GMs go from there.

Also include what time you got in the instance, what time you were booted from the instance, and possibly anything that was said between you and them (Gives them something better to look for), or amongst themselves if anything seemed a bit off.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

It's only 7 people, so not that long of a list, and I'm pretty sure they can see what players hit yes on the vote dismiss function. Just report the group (3 people dungeons/7 people raids) and tell them that the majority of them kicked wrongly and let the GMs go from there.

Also include what time you got in the instance, what time you were booted from the instance, and possibly anything that was said between you and them (Gives them something better to look for), or amongst themselves if anything seemed a bit off.

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Pretty much. Everything's in their logs. Include that info and the GMs will initiate the corresponding investigation.

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If you are getting a sketch feeling from your PARTY, it's only the other ppl in your party that can vote kick you not the other alliances, then just don't lot on anything until combat with the next boss has been initiated, then open the next chest immediately after the boss has been defeated. Rinse and repeat through dungeon.

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Yeah but it was just out of the blue, there was no way for me to know that they wanted me gone, it was just *pop* gone.

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It's only 7 people, so not that long of a list, and I'm pretty sure they can see what players hit yes on the vote dismiss function. Just report the group (3 people dungeons/7 people raids) and tell them that the majority of them kicked wrongly and let the GMs go from there.

Also include what time you got in the instance, what time you were booted from the instance, and possibly anything that was said between you and them (Gives them something better to look for), or amongst themselves if anything seemed a bit off.

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I did do that, but they told me they couldn't go without a name, which looking through other people's complaints, GMs /have/ worked without names before.

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Originally Posted by Damun

Yeah but it was just out of the blue, there was no way for me to know that they wanted me gone, it was just *pop* gone.



I did do that, but they told me they couldn't go without a name, which looking through other people's complaints, GMs /have/ worked without names before.

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It must be that GM in particular. Try to submit another report to see if you get a different person for your case.

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Originally Posted by Damun

I still think the system needs adjustment.

As for

Then why does the game continue to express that vote dismissing besides the listed reasons is a volation of the ToS?

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Word of advice. READ the post in full...don't jump to conclusions.

As I said before :
2: It's only abuse if you where treated poor...such as smack talked/bullied etc.

This is why you need to tell the GM who was there..and what happened...and that is the ONLY time its considered abuse.

I've only been kicked once from a party and it was recent and it was purely due to parsing (or lack of being able to parse me to be precise)... I locked my character down as soon as I found out you could... I was like ok I'm the only one not dying but you do you... I joined another party right after and we farmed no problem...

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Originally Posted by NephthysVasudan

Word of advice. READ the post in full...don't jump to conclusions.

As I said before :
2: It's only abuse if you where treated poor...such as smack talked/bullied etc.

This is why you need to tell the GM who was there..and what happened...and that is the ONLY time its considered abuse.

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And my reply was about the actual vote dismiss window, it warns you that kicking for any reason not listed is against the ToS

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Originally Posted by Damun

And my reply was about the actual vote dismiss window, it warns you that kicking for any reason not listed is against the ToS

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GM's have stated difference in playstyle is a valid kick reason.

We're not exactly the most consistent company.

I haven't been kicked in a while, but I forget is the message that spawns afterwards specific to a kick verse an abandon, or are they the same. Maybe someone trolled and vote abandon instead. Still annoying though.

But I will admit, thete maybe should be some form of compansation if the claim is proven false. If I spend 40 minutes or more on a raid, just to be booted for no good reason, it's a waste of my time for something I was willing to work for. Now I'm not saying offer us something grand in return. Something small, like a materia of your choice, 10,000 gil an MGP ticket, somethink equivalent to a card saying :we're sorry"

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Originally Posted by Damun

And my reply was about the actual vote dismiss window, it warns you that kicking for any reason not listed is against the ToS

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I'm afraid this is just plain wrong. Happy reading, from the lead GM:

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Originally Posted by Hikoko

http://s14.directupload.net/images/140813/zbgultir.jpg
http://s7.directupload.net/images/140813/h299ln6g.jpg

To me this sounds like everything someone has to say is "(s)he had a different playstyle" when kicking for whatever reason.

People who join a duty as partly groups can kick whoever they want without a real danger of facing any kind of punishment.

You want that Syrcus Tower item, but the random player with the same class might need on it in case it drops? -> "Sorry, we dont like how you play" and kicked before the bossfight starts.


And just to clear things up, the reason I was kicked for had nothing to do with "different playstyles", the GM just put it in that category...

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

Greetings!

To begin, I have removed several posts commenting negatively about the company or the service itself, as well as a side discussion about the use of spell checking. Those suggestions have been heard, but take away from the concerns in this thread, which is a criticism of policy and confusion resulting from a message sent by a GM.

I have escalated several of the concerns with the messaging to the appropriate group for review and ways to improve their messaging to prevent confusion like this.

However, there is one topic in this thread that seems to be an underlying point of contention: reasons for dismissal that are not strictly "AFK", "Offline", "Harassment", or "Cheating". I would like to address this.

The response from the GM touched on this, although it was missed due to the focus on the first part of that sentence. The reasons for dismissal are not all encompassing, which means that there may be valid reasons for dismissal outside of those four examples. Good examples of this that have been provided in this thread are the refusal to fulfill one's job function. Because of this, it is possible that the reasons provided for dismissal may be found to be accurate if they are used against you. As well, the feelings one may have about the reasons may differ from the feelings of those who voted to dismiss. For example, cultural differences in language may have one person using language they find fairly benign while another person takes great offense to it.

Because of these subjective discrepancies, the final decision on if a violation of the use of the vote dismiss feature is left to a GM after an investigation. In general, abuse of the vote dismiss feature is considered to be a grief tactics violation, which falls under section 3.2 in the Final Fantasy XIV User Agreement. However, it is only after a GM investigation that it can be determined to be a violation of the rules. If you feel that the vote dismiss feature has been abused, please do report it to the GMs through the Help Desk in game, and we will investigate.

LGM Enkrateia

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Originally Posted by Enkrateia

This does leave us with 2 possible options.

Option 1: We only consider reasons for dismissal that are specifically stated to be an abuse of the vote dismiss feature. On the plus side, this does provide a clear and definitive set of guidelines for the use of the feature. On the downside, it is limited by the creativity of customers to find ways of disrupting a run outside of what is listed. Otherwise, the list of possible violations will be too extensive to be used efficiently or will be too vague to provide a definitive set of guidelines.

Option 2: Commonly reported reasons for dismissal are listed, although the tool can be used to dismiss anyone for causing a disruption to the duty. On the plus side, the feature can be used to remove disruptions and increase the chances that the duty can be completed. On the downside, it means that there is not one definitive list for reference on when the use of the feature is justified.

Neither option actively prevents abuse of the feature. Abuse of the feature is prevented due to account actions taken by GMs after an investigation to encourage customers who do misuse the feature to discontinue that behaviour. Currently, option 2 is what is currently in place, since a GM needs to investigate either way, and allows the GM to consider new types of disruptive behaviour that arise instead of waiting for a change to the tool while keeping the tool interface easy to navigate and use.

I think what I may not be clarifying in my replies is that this allows for a broader scope to the use of the tool than just one stated example (not fulfilling job duties). It's never just "one more reason"; the possible reasons for proper use of the tool are limited only bt the creativity of those looking to disrupt duties. Once we list something there, some new way of disrupting runs is bound to arise, and this allows customers to try to make sure runs go smoothly while still allowing for GMs to consider if the feature itself was used in a proper manner.

LGM Enkrateia

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Yet voked kick for different play styles is ok.
But if they talk trash in party/ls/fc gm can take action. But likely will not beside put a flag on character info in back end of system unless it is a real problem and this person has been reported enough to cost them money.
If they are talking trash in 3rd party like discord and as far as ffxiv goes kicked out of the blue it ok by gm


Also if this is happening to you lots as in enough to post on the forums maybe you are doing something to Warren getting kicked. If it happened once or twice you are just whining because something happened you didn't like. If later are you a entitled millennial?

it is not 24 people, it is the other 7 in your party. The outside parties have no say so, and the 7 you partied with should be in the contacts menu to report them. Also check if several people are on the same server as people do make premades and might kick out someone just because they do not like them

I gotta say one time kick without harassment isn't abuse... if a mom spanks her kid once it's not abuse... if she beats her kid black and blue everyday that's abuse...

People can kick you if they dont like your characters face. Thats what comes with playing people, you cant force people to play with you.

And no @some there is nothing in the ToS against this stop making stuff up. Just resulting in people being missinformed and reporting petty things that a GM cant do anything about it.

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Originally Posted by Damun

Can someone explain to me how I'm supposed to report a player for vote dismissing when I was kicked out of the blue, I was playing properly, no deaths, no arguing, no afking. This was during an alliance raid mind you, so I couldn't really name anyone because it could be anyone out of 24 people.

I recently had a chat with a GM and they said they couldn't investigate since I couldn't name a player?
Why can't we have the name of the person who initiated the vote to dismiss if GM's can't follow up on a report.

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Unfortunately, you were kicked fairly. It falls under "differing playstyles" and is not abuse. That's assuming you're telling the truth and weren't AFK, mindlessly pressing one button, harassing other people, or spamming macros, etc.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

I've only been kicked once from a party and it was recent and it was purely due to parsing (or lack of being able to parse me to be precise)... I locked my character down as soon as I found out you could... I was like ok I'm the only one not dying but you do you... I joined another party right after and we farmed no problem...

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I'm having trouble understanding this story:

Were you kicked because of hidden FFlogs or because you were parsed and did poorly (despite not dying) in the farm party?

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Originally Posted by KaldeaSahaline

I'm having trouble understanding this story:

Were you kicked because of hidden FFlogs or because you were parsed and did poorly (despite not dying) in the farm party?

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it was because they were parsing and I assume they didn't like not being able to look my parses up... I just took it as difference in playstyle and rolled with it... they wernt rude or anything so no big deal... I personally never use the playstyle difference as a excuse to kick but that's just me...

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

it was because they were parsing and I assume they didn't like not being able to look my parses up... I just took it as difference in playstyle and rolled with it... they wernt rude or anything so no big deal... I personally never use the playstyle difference as a excuse to kick but that's just me...

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But if they're parsing they don't need to look your numbers up.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

it was because they were parsing and I assume they didn't like not being able to look my parses up... I just took it as difference in playstyle and rolled with it... they wernt rude or anything so no big deal... I personally never use the playstyle difference as a excuse to kick but that's just me...

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Even if they were parsing as long as they didn't call you out because of that the cause remains "different playstyles".

So, just join another group and have fun.

PS: I'm pretty sure that your actual parses ingame will show up but if you blocked yourself on fflogs you can't upload your logs or they won't show up if someone is looking for you.

Eh I dunno crap about how parsing works or care really... I play on ps4... and this was byakko ex too... like I said I'm not salty about it at all... I just found amore chill group...

So if the vote dismiss system asks for reasons for why you're kicking, tells you it's a punishable offense to kick wrongly, but GMs say you can kick for whatever floats your boat. Why does the system even /ask/ for a reason?

The current system is misleading, they can either crack down or take it all off and just say. "Wanna kick this guy? Okay vote now!"

But I still stand by my statement, I feel it's wrong to kick someone for what ever they feel like, if they're disruptive that's another matter. I'm usually a quiet type in randoms, just go in, blow up bosses quickly, finish, give a commendation and go on my merry way. Making me reque because you thought my tail was weird, that's a stupid reason to be kicked and the rules /shouldn't/ allow much less encourage this kind of behavior.

You can report "kick abuse" it just depends what happens. You can't fit everything under "different playstyles"

https://i.gyazo.com/0ed673056a76c53a...73972562c7.png

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Originally Posted by Damun

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Not defending this system at all, but having a 'differing playstyles' reason being an actual option might be a good idea. Having had to kick somebody this week for reasons that I will not discuss, I would actually prefer that option as opposed to saying something else.

Basically, ask yourself what evidence you have to support your case. If the party wasn't actively communicating that they're kicking you for flimsy reasons, you've got nothing on them. There's nothing to investigate. GM's not going to go to every party member and question why they voted to kick you.

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Originally Posted by Damun

Why can't we have the name of the person who initiated the vote to dismiss if GM's can't follow up on a report.

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Because that's a dangerous path that can lead to monumental harassment. How would you like it if every player you reported knew it was you reporting them?

Did this really need its own thread? So much salt over being kicked once. Brush it off and move on.

I mean, I feel like unless there is actual verbal abuse going on, people should just leave things alone and accept that rarely you’ll just end up with a party that decides to kick for unclear/not the best reasons. Also, don’t they say differing play styles is a valid reas9m for a kick? If so that literally can encompass just about any reason at all, so long as there is nothing to suggest foul play in the chat logs. At the end of the day I feel like it would really be opening up a can of worms if they started sanctioning people for initiating or clicking yes on a vote dismisss. People shouldn’t have to worry about whether or not they will get an official warning on their account just because they may not have felt another person was a good fit for their party. Like even if you end up in a duty where everyone else knows each other and they all privately and out of game discuss how they are going to to kick you because they don’t like your glamour, neither you or a GM will be able to know that’s the reason, ams they can’t just start dishing out punishments for using an in game system when there is zero evidence it may have been used wrongly.

I’ve never run into a situation where anyone was kicked from a party I was in, except for once where the person was AFK for a long period. I’ve been kicked from a duty once so far in my time playing for probably not good reasons as I too was not dying or standing around doing nothing and certainly wasn’t harassing others in chat or anything. I would never have tried to report those people though, because it is what it is and it’s not like this sort of thing happens with any sort of frequency. Imo there can be such a thing as too much policing of player actions, especially if there is no actual verbal exchange of any kind between players.

Just because you told a one sided story about how you were kicked once doesn't mean people everywhere are abusing this system, which is perfectly fine the way it is by the way.

It's "Differing playstyles". Perhaps that party wanted a group with lots of deaths. As a result, you playing to a good standard became a differing playstyle, thus valid reason to kick. Simple advice: Unless they're hurling abuse at you (in which case they can be done for harassment etc instead), deal with it. Plus, if you're frequently getting kicked, the problem is you. Once or twice, maybe just bad luck. But like my signature says, someone got kicked 20 times in a short space of time, and tried to say he wasn't at fault when he was.

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Originally Posted by HoodRat

But if they're parsing they don't need to look your numbers up.

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Hoodrat gets where I was going with this.

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

Eh I dunno crap about how parsing works or care really... I play on ps4... and this was byakko ex too... like I said I'm not salty about it at all... I just found amore chill group...

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"more chill" hopefully doesn't equal carry :). Be proud of your performance! It makes you a better player.

If you get kicked it's usually for a reason. Missing obvious mechanics, too low DPS, poor behaviour, etc.

I don't think i have ever been booted out of a party out of thin air. I've seen 0 abuse. I've also had people yell at me for abuse specifically for calling towards a kick on them because they constantly missed obvious mechanics, or refused to move out of AoEs, or did only normal attacks for a long amount of time instead of actual damage.

In all my years of MMOs(coming up on 12 years now), across all the games played, the times i've seen vote kick actually be abused is less than 20 times. Over 12 years. People who complain about vote kick abuse are generally doing something really poorly that causes them to be kicked and then they complain they got kicked.

Has anyone EVER been punished for vote kick abuse though? I'm pretty sure they just said "different play styles" and wrapped it up in that as a grey area.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Did this really need its own thread? So much salt over being kicked once. Brush it off and move on.

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This.

Honestly, if you were playing on a tank or healer and they for whatever reason decide to kick you, YOU have Tank/Healer Privilege. This means that, if they kick you out, you can requeue and you'll be back either instantly or in less than 5 mins. If they kicked you while you were on DPS, if you have a tank or healer you can requeue and get back in immediately.

I will admit however, that vote dismiss can be abusive. If you so much as give someone advice, they will take that as you saying "git gud" and will try to vote kick you. It's that stupid.

^Why I'm usually posting my advice after the final boss if they're tolerable enough. It's become more easy to identify people coming in with buddies as they act out and only get crabby about other people's minutia, throwing stones from their glass house, etc.

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Originally Posted by Damun

Can someone explain to me how I'm supposed to report a player for vote dismissing when I was kicked out of the blue, I was playing properly, no deaths, no arguing, no afking.

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Did you get your answer? if you did just report what happened and what the GMS do or don't do is out of everyone's hands, no reason keep fueliing people's posts about kicking over "different playstles"