Will we ever get selfish physical ranged job?

Currently the way the physical ranged dps role skills are shoehorn all of them to this supporting dps role. However, I think it would be nice to get a selfish physical ranged dps job, like samurai and black mage are supposed to be. (With minimal to no utility and high personal dps). Do you think we will ever get one? What would it be? Maybe give them access to the role actions but give them no support/utility skills on their own.

we would need a bazooka, though that would mean deleting mch. I already imagine bazooka shooting moogles with mog weapon.

It would be difficult to reconcile nuclear-level damage with the mobility that a ranged DoW has. They'll end up having cast times and/or some sort of complicated self buff juggling system, and then at that point why aren't we just playing BLM?

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Originally Posted by Rongway

It would be difficult to reconcile nuclear-level damage with the mobility that a ranged DoW has. They'll end up having cast times and/or some sort of complicated self buff juggling system, and then at that point why aren't we just playing BLM?

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It wouldn't need to be at the highest level, just higher than the other physical ranged, remember they would still have access to refresh, tactician and palisade. It would just give an option to people that want to play non-magical ranged without all of the support/utility stuff. Magic users and melee already have classes that have more utility/support than others at the cost of personal dps and vice versa, would be nice to have the option for ranged physical as well.

MCH is your selfish physical ranged.
It doesn't have any utility besides the Role skills and Hypercharge (which is a semi-selfish utility like Trick Attack or SAM's slashing debuff anyway) and it deals significant damage, if you get your wildfire rotation off ok.

When they decided to make the Bards utility Role skills they eliminated any chance of a purely selfish physical ranged DPS.

Oh and MCH should totally get a Bazooka as a +70 ability in the next expansion. XD
It should be a 180s oGCD that ends Wildfire when used, so it's used as a finisher.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

MCH is your selfish physical ranged.
It doesn't have any utility besides the Role skills and Hypercharge (which is a semi-selfish utility like Trick Attack or SAM's slashing debuff anyway) and it deals significant damage, if you get your wildfire rotation off ok.

When they decided to make the Bards utility Role skills they eliminated any chance of a purely selfish physical ranged DPS.

Oh and MCH should totally get a Bazooka as a +70 ability in the next expansion. XD
It should be a 180s oGCD that ends Wildfire when used, so it's used as a finisher.

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Excuse me if I am wrong, but in my knowledge machinists have not parsed nowhere near the top in stormblood, in fact they are one of the lowest. As for utility yeah they don't have as much as bard, but you forgot to mention dismantle which is not insignificant. Hypercharge and dismantle take machinist more to a debuffer kind of support and both of those are very strong support abilities.

Honestly, I don’t think they should make more selfish DPS jobs unless they can figure out how to properly balance them and/or actually allow them to be selfish.. As it stands now, the “true selfish DPS job” (i.e., SAM) is getting flattened by MNK, which has utility aspects in the form of Mantra and Brotherhood. So, until the developers can actually allow “selfish DPS” to be selfish, I would rather them not introduce another one.

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Originally Posted by Samsta

Excuse me if I am wrong, but in my knowledge machinists have not parsed nowhere near the top in stormblood, in fact they are one of the lowest.

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Going by current FFLogs data, MCH is (this is for All Bosses) usually 5th (in 50th to 99th percentiles), above DRG, NIN, BRD, and RDM. Only at Max does it fall to 3rd from the bottom, above RDM and NIN with BRD surpassing it.

So I wouldn’t say they’re one of the lowest; they seem to hover about in the middle. Lowest is BRD/RDM at most percentiles, with BRD finally pulling ahead at Max rank.

During the last raid tier of HW, BRD and MCH were the top DPs. They had a 30% self buff that made all their weaponskills have a cast time (A BLM in disguise). Glad these days are over, because having high utility + high dps is just bad and unfair to other jobs.

MCH can be easily turned into a pure DPs. If they make Hypercharge a personal buff rather than raid buff, increase Guss Barrel and Hot Shot damage percentage. You almost get HW MCH back - (the raid buff and cast bar).

But personally I prefer MCH to stay the way it is now. MCH is already not popular and making it a selfish DPs will result in even less players playing it.

"selfish physical ranged job" = you don't have to care grp utility, movement, pet/turret or aoes?... doesn't that sound kinda overpowered & boring at the same time... q.q

I'd imagine a selfish physical ranged will be quite boring to play as since you don't ever need to worry about positionals, uptime, and greeding casts.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Honestly, I don’t think they should make more selfish DPS jobs unless they can figure out how to properly balance them and/or actually allow them to be selfish.. As it stands now, the “true selfish DPS job” (i.e., SAM) is getting flattened by MNK, which has utility aspects in the form of Mantra and Brotherhood. So, until the developers can actually allow “selfish DPS” to be selfish, I would rather them not introduce another one.

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Though I think that that particular issue extends well beyond merely an issue of selfish DPS being poorly rewarded -- I mean, just look at the personal dps of the two; high-ranked MNKs already defeats high-ranked SAMs on pDPS alone in all but 2 fights -- I have to agree with this.

That said, I'm not sure I want an entirely selfish ranged DPS anyways. One of the things I so love about a mobile ranged job is its ability to see all and engage with all; that can go somewhat to waste -- however slightly -- if the job is wholly selfish. I'd just like to see a Ranger job or the like that can be a bit more selfish (with Bard seeing some adjustments in the other direction), and with its supports more target-focused as a coin-opposite to Bard, etc. Though that, too, will have to be balanced in context.

They either need to get rid entirely of selfish anything in this game or remove utility where others benifit alltogether.
The selfish ranged would just be ignored like the other selfish dps so far. :|
Sure it might be fun to play but no one in their right mind would take them into their raidgroup unless they are friends or you don't find any other decent player.

not just a new ranged but this game needs a real rogue class and a real pet class too, i would kill to have something like assassin/sniper/beast master

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Originally Posted by AppleJinx

I'd imagine a selfish physical ranged will be quite boring to play as since you don't ever need to worry about positionals, uptime, and greeding casts.

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Agreed, they would've to come up with a pretty unique mechanic for it or bring back the 1.5 cast time of HW BRD/MCH. Actually MCH is almost what a selfish ranged could be, having Hypercharge only to benefit the party simmilar to MNK having Brotherhood, they'll use those buttons for themselves and give the party their benefits as well. Actually it's even weaker than Brotherhood and MCH demands more buffs from the party to selfishly ramp up their Wildfire.

History is full or ranged weapons to choose from:

Slingshot (this was a real weapon, and also a biblical one, and it doesn't look like the rubber toy version of today).
Javelin
dual pistols (this is a gunslinger that is different from MCH)

sniper rifle (again different from MCH, but closer to it's territory) - suffers the problem that FFXIV combat is all close in, and this guy, if it existed, should be able to knock off people in the lower deck of Limsa from the upper deck...

whip (not technically ranged, but range in FFXIV is so short, whip could almost count).
crossbow (historically too slow on reload, But the same is true of the guns that fit the tech level of FFXIV, yet MCH ignores this).
Shuriken (NJN supposedly uses these in Mudra but you don't really see it...)
Tomahawk
Boomerang
Ball and chain - styles for this in the west were flails to go over shields, and in the east were long chains with spiked balls or other weights on the ends. Technically melee - but like whip it's reach for the eastern version could be quite long.
blowdart - not really a direct combat weapon. More an assassin weapon to deliver poisons.

- the big problem with many of these is that historically they aren't purely ranged as many have extremely limited ammunition (you toss your javelin / boomerang / tomahawk / etc and then run away), or are actually just melee with absurdly long reach (whip and ball and chain), or are low direct damage weapons that deliver slow acting poisons (blowdart and shuriken)... Weapons like the Tomahawk are like the knives of the rogue / ninja - they are melee weapons that can also be thrown - but doing that means you need a replacement... (and on that score the Javelin is just a specialized spear).


Personally... I would go for the Whip or Ball and Chain. Even though it's melee... melee that can hit at 15-20 yards (after you anime up that reach just a bit) is kinda ranged... :)
Plus the animations on swinging a ball around the entire battle map would be awesome... and those on the whip would have their own level of awesome as well (but would need a little more 'anime-juice' to explain the reach).

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Originally Posted by AppleJinx

I'd imagine a selfish physical ranged will be quite boring to play as since you don't ever need to worry about positionals, uptime, and greeding casts.

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That's a really really good point.

It would attract the worst ends of the playerbase. It would become the 'huntard' of FFXIV... Which is to say... you have this in other MMOs. A class that can stay out of range of AoE and not need positionals, and who's former utility has been made obsolete over the years. It is where you find the players that play while watching Netflix... where the "buddy gamer" ends up - that person who is only logging in to be with their friend / SO but doesn't actually like gaming...

Such classes end up full of players the 'lower the floor' of the DPS meters... and a smattering of players who take it serious and perform, but themselves are never taken seriously due to their peers.

Best avoided.

Probably exactly why the "hunter / archer" in this game is a support role with a moderately hight skill floor and even higher skill ceiling...
- I knew a LOT of WoW hunters and GW2 Rangers that went 'archer' when FFXIV came out, only to slam into a brick wall at 30 with Bard and not being able to play an 'AFK class' anymore despite the 'bow using class' being exactly that in almost every other MMO out there...

While it might boost subs to add in an 'AFK player' class... it wouldn't do the game's community many favors...