Give warning on how much EXP gets lost when you revive self in Eureka

I forgot about the EXP loss when you revive yourself, and I lost about 12k EXP the other day (Which is way too damn much around level 6), so give people a warning if they revive themselves.

When it takes a long time to get any EXP, and you take away more than they spent 1-2 hours getting, it's kind of mean not giving any warning. We've been conditioned at this point to never worry about that, and suddenly BOOM 4 years later you gotta worry.

Edit: Since a lot of people are just jumping to 'did you actually read the patch notes' and the like, I'm suggesting this because I have short term memory issues. I have forgotten about this even shortly after talking with FC members about it in mic chats, only to need to be reminded MANY times. I have trouble converting many new things to long term memory unless I'm encountering something again and again and again, like with raid practice. This is something that you do NOT want to encounter ever if you can avoid it.

I'm simply asking for a reminder every time the revive window comes up. Like I said, we've NEVER had to worry about being de-leveled up until now.

It is pretty low at games with experience loss standard (it was possible to lose weeks worth of grinding at near-max levels in a different game I did play, and losing "only" 1-2 hours at mid level meant you were really good and/or in a fine party), but it is quite high for a game that generally does not have experience loss.

That being said, there was a warning. And everything other than the amount was stated. The loss itself is just a bad design that was always used by free to play games to make no-loss items (or experience boost items, or both) to get money from their item mall.

A subscription game should never have implemented it in the first place. Though I'm pretty sure that there are others that did, if not most of them, which just shows how generally anti-player developers tend to be.

It’s a good amount and I think the penalty increases as you level. All the more reason to have a patented pocket healer with you at all times...or just not to die as a healer and if you do screech at the nearest RDM or SMN like I do....

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Originally Posted by Soupa

It’s a good amount and I think the penalty increases as you level. All the more reason to have a patented pocket healer with you at all times...or just not to die as a healer and if you do screech at the nearest RDM or SMN like I do....

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This exactly. First I laugh at myself then I post some coords. Usually there's somebody out there.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

I forgot about the EXP loss when you revive yourself, and I lost about 12k EXP the other day (Which is way too damn much around level 6), so give people a warning if they revive themselves.

When it takes a long time to get any EXP, and you take away more than they spent 1-2 hours getting, it's kind of mean not giving any warning. We've been conditioned at this point to never worry about that, and suddenly BOOM 4 years later you gotta worry.

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Did you read the patch notes? they did give a warning that this would happen. IF anything perhaps adding a re raise function trough a buff every 1hr or so, perhaps a re raise potion that can be purchased or exchanged for crystal would be nice specially when people leave are and player decrease. Altleas you can also shout for a raise seems people are getting achievements long over do for raising people outside of their group lol.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

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This system is definitly not anti-player. And it's not bad design neither. Eureka is dangerous. Wandering around inside alone is at your own risks. This is actually what actually encourage teamplay and for once actually REALLY be carefull at what you're doing.

Let's not complain about one of the only content where dying really means something. And if anyone unhappy with it, just forget about doing Eureka anymore if you can't deal with how it was made.

I reached lvl17 and never lost xp or level because I always join groups and try to be with someone on expedition.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

I forgot about the EXP loss when you revive yourself, and I lost about 12k EXP the other day (Which is way too damn much around level 6), so give people a warning if they revive themselves.

When it takes a long time to get any EXP, and you take away more than they spent 1-2 hours getting, it's kind of mean not giving any warning. We've been conditioned at this point to never worry about that, and suddenly BOOM 4 years later you gotta worry.

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You will kill yourself if you die in SAO,
learn to respect your character's and others life in game, then it will give you a better sense of immersion

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

This system is definitly not anti-player. And it's not bad design neither. Eureka is dangerous. Wandering around inside alone is at your own risks. This is actually what actually encourage teamplay and for once actually REALLY be carefull at what you're doing.

Let's not complain about one of the only content where dying really means something. And if anyone unhappy with it, just forget about doing Eureka anymore if you can't deal with how it was made.

I reached lvl17 and never lost xp or level because I always join groups and try to be with someone on expedition.

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It’s like you figured how to avoid tragedy by working with others.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Did you read the patch notes? they did give a warning that this would happen. IF anything perhaps adding a re raise function trough a buff every 1hr or so, perhaps a re raise potion that can be purchased or exchanged for crystal would be nice specially when people leave are and player decrease. Altleas you can also shout for a raise seems people are getting achievements long over do for raising people outside of their group lol.

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Yes I 'read the patch notes'. I have memory issues and forget about things like this from time to time, including the EXP loss, no matter how much I see it. And did you read the last thing I said in my first post? We've been conditioned to never worry about EXP loss, until suddenly four years later.

You're just saying what everyone else is when I'm just asking for the to give some kind of warning about how much EXP you'll lose if you revive yourself. So try focusing on that thanks.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

You're just saying what everyone else is when I'm just asking for the to give some kind of warning about how much EXP you'll lose if you revive yourself. So try focusing on that thanks.

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Do the calculation yourself as it is always percentage based.
Death penalty under FF11 system was never a joke

I think some people in this thread are missing the point... AFAIK all OP is asking for is a message in the return box that says you will lose EXP if you return. They did not say to remove the penalty or adjust it, just for it to be more transparent.

How it works right now is you lose the EXP when the return happens. In XI it was more transparent.. you lost the EXP as soon as you died, back in the 2000s getting raised would refund a portion of the lost EXP depending on the raise tier.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Yes I 'read the patch notes'. I have memory issues and forget about things like this from time to time, including the EXP loss, no matter how much I see it. And did you read the last thing I said in my first post? We've been conditioned to never worry about EXP loss, until suddenly four years later.

You're just saying what everyone else is when I'm just asking for the to give some kind of warning about how much EXP you'll lose if you revive yourself. So try focusing on that thanks.

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Not sure if you ever considered this, common sense dictates that if your level increases so does the amount that would decrease to balance it out. Would be kind of pointless to keep the amount of a level 6 loss on a level 12 or 20 to be the same. Guess I gave you too much credit. If you have memory issues there are options, post a posted on your monitor to remind you, if you die your penalty is high. As you read this suggestions write that post and go place it on your monitor. I have a friend who has a disability and can only retain short term and he keeps a journal as well as posts on important things. Just a suggestion. To me it seems it is you who needs to focus more than most.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

I think some people in this thread are missing the point... AFAIK all OP is asking for is a message in the return box that says you will lose EXP if you return. They did not say to remove the penalty or adjust it, just for it to be more transparent.

How it works right now is you lose the EXP when the return happens. In XI it was more transparent.. you lost the EXP as soon as you died, back in the 2000s getting raised would refund a portion of the lost EXP depending on the raise tier.

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Maybe SE is giving players the benefit of the doubt that they will use their better judgement or common sense after the patch notes that as your level goes up, so would the penalty. Then again Common sense is dead.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Maybe SE is giving players the benefit of the doubt that they will use their better judgement or common sense after the patch notes that as your level goes up, so would the penalty. Then again Common sense is dead.

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Dude, a sentence that says "You will lose a portion of your EXP if you release." is not really that much to ask. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. It's literally QoL. You're literally focused on the amount you lose, but the main thing that OP wants is for there to be a message that says you actually lose EXP in the first place on the return prompt.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Maybe SE is giving players the benefit of the doubt that they will use their better judgement or common sense after the patch notes that as your level goes up, so would the penalty. Then again Common sense is dead.

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Uh...honestly I think the main point is simply that it is easy to forget that you lose EXP if you return.

When I first hit level 6 I accidentally forgot about the EXP loss and returned and lost part of my EXP. It is just the rest of the game you don't have to worry about returning when you die, but in Eureka you need to recondition your habits to remember to wait for a raise after level 6.

If the return had a simple warning like "Reminder: If you return you will lose a portion of your EXP." less people would lose EXP for no reason simply other than forgetting. Or at least have a chance to try to wait for a raise.

What's so wrong about a simple reminder about returning? Common sense doesn't really apply when it is simply a forgetful mistake due to this losing EXP thing being a new feature in Eureka that players are not used to in this game.

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Originally Posted by Miste

Uh...honestly I think the main point is simply that it is easy to forget that you lose EXP if you return.
If the return had a warning like "hey! remember you are going to lose EXP if you do this!" I wouldn't have lost that 4k EXP when I accidentally did it.

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Wait, I am playing on JP client and I am pretty sure there is always a message showing when you are KO.
The message specifically warn you that you will lose exp after lvl 6.
Are you saying English client does not have this message?
If it is the case, the discussion should not be here, it should be report to bug forum

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Originally Posted by Miste

Uh...honestly I think the main point is simply that it is easy to forget that you lose EXP if you return.

When I first hit level 6 I accidentally forgot about the EXP loss and returned and lost part of my EXP. It is just the rest of the game you don't have to worry about returning when you die, but in Eureka you need to recondition your habits to remember to wait for a raise after level 6.

If the return had a simple warning like "Remember. If you return you will lose a portion of your EXP." less people would lose EXP for no reason simply other than forgetting. Or at least have a chance to try to wait for a raise.

What's so wrong about a simple reminder about returning? Common sense doesn't really apply when it is simply a forgetful mistake due to this losing EXP thing being a new feature in Eureka that players are not used to in this game.

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They probably will, people complain enough as it is so no surprise. While this game has spoiled many players, at the very list when they know they are losing xp they actually play better. Just another thing to add to the new cupcake / snowflake generation. I would think that the KO pop up would remind players regardless. Common sense does give you the mind set to think, am I taking this game seriously or not? Attention to detail is is a great skill to master in RL.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

Dude, a sentence that says "You will lose a portion of your EXP if you release." is not really that much to ask. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. It's literally QoL. You're literally focused on the amount you lose, but the main thing that OP wants is for there to be a message that says you actually lose EXP in the first place on the return prompt.

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Again would not the fact that your in Eureka sink in with that pop up that says your KO'd? Same piece of advice attention to detail is a great trait to master.

I knew about the penalty due to reading patch notes, but I do agree it might be helpful to have a reminder message or confirmation dialog when you go to release like "are you sure you want to release? you'll lose X amount of exp"

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

Wait, I am playing on JP client and I am pretty sure there is always a message showing when you are KO.
The message specifically warn you that you will lose exp after lvl 6.
Are you saying English client does not have this message?
If it is the case, the discussion should not be here, it should be report to bug forum

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You only obtain that message once when you get to level 6 and I simply didn't notice it. It isn't a pop up it is only in the chat log which likely got spammed out by how many people leveled at the FATE I had just completed. I knew there was an EXP loss at level 6, but I simply forgot in the chaos of the NM FATE.

Any time later when you die there is no reminder that you lose EXP so people might absent mindedly return forgetting that they need to wait for a raise.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

would not the fact that your in Eureka sink in with that pop up that says your KO'd? Same piece of advice attention to detail is a great trait to master.

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So in other words you are saying you have never ever "forgot" anything in your entire life then?

Amazing. You must be a perfect being beyond us normal humans who have flaws like forgetfulness.

Just no, it's really not necessary.
I died and returned once, that was enough to figure out whats happening. And now I'm Lv.11, without complaining about Eureka even 1 time.

And there's a clear instruction in the quests that you will lose xp after Lv 5.

Dieing Lv6 isn't that bad tho.

The game warns me every time I try to buy a weapon that my current class cannot equip. The game will not even let me buy crafting logs I already have, and warns me that I have them. The game warns me any time I try to convert to glamour any items that are bound to a gearset. The game warns me if I try to turn in an HQ item for seals/levequest. The game warns me whenever I put items into my armoire that dye will be removed/spiritbond & durability will be reset. The game warns me any time I try to leave PotD that I might lose sacks if I have a full inventory.

The list goes on. I really don't think a warning box that says "If you release, you will lose a percentage of your experience gained. If this drops your current level's experience progress below 0, you may be reverted to a lower level. Continue? Yes/No" would be (for whatever reason) the Horrible Issue that people seem to be arguing against.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Again would not the fact that your in Eureka sink in with that pop up that says your KO'd? Same piece of advice attention to detail is a great trait to master.

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Except until you get to level 6 you don't lose exp and can return freely. So yes the first couple of times people might not care since the penalty isn't even there.

I can't believe we are arguing about a message that says you will lose EXP if you return. I've seen it all now.

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Originally Posted by Miste

So in other words you are saying you have never ever "forgot" anything in your entire life then?

Amazing. You must be a perfect being beyond us normal humans who have flaws like forgetfulness.

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Actually I was in motorcycle accident a few years ago and lost part of my memory so yes I have forgotten. yet I don't use it as an excuse. I am human and as we grow older yes we can forget, however being that I am a gamer, and have played several games , I understand that simple things as xp penalties for being KO'd. We all just have different principles that is all, come from different times where games were actually challenging. I've played FFXI since beta and that game like many others have kept me sharp to these things. So imagine for one thing loving FFXI, get an accident and have to relearn it from scratch when you were so far in and then treated as noob with high level? asking the simplest of questions since lvl 1? Does not compare to memories I will never have again from my RL. Even with this disability I can understand simple things and comprehend.

To end this conversation,

I just wonder one thing, IS it bad to learn from experience? I don't think so. How much xp will it take for people to lose in order to remember?

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

We all just have different principles that is all, come from different times where games were actually challenging. I've played FFXI since beta and that game like many others have kept my sharp to these things.

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You actually assume you are talking to someone who doesn't have the "gaming experience" you have? Bad assumption to make.

I played FFXI for 7 years.

You just have your knickers in a twist about people "complaining" that you are latching onto just a simple QoL request and getting annoyed. No one asked to remove the penalty, simply for a reminder to avoid human conditions such as forgetfulness. You can call people cupcakes and snowflakes all you want, but to me I feel that falls on you for getting this uptight about a simple worded message and no actual change to the game play itself.

In FFXI back in the day they conditioned you that you will lose EXP from a very early stage so people got used to it.

In FFXIV the game has been running for 4 years now with no EXP loss mechanic in any content in the game until now. Yes people will need help remembering and also time to change their old habits. A simple warning message will help since the game did not condition the player base to this type of mechanic early on.

Having a reminder that you lose EXP when returning does not remove the challenge. It doesn't somehow take back the fact that you died in the first place. It is just reminding you that if you return you will be penalized. Just like in FFXI, you wait for a raise or try to ask for one, if no one comes you'll have to accept the penalty. The reminder doesn't somehow take back that you died and you may still have to accept the penalty of dying.

Also your personal real life is not relevant to me. Simple answer was "yes I do forget sometimes" since as humans we all forget things sometimes no matter if we had a bad automobile accident or not.

I think this is a great idea. Facts are, people forget things. People don't know the exact number being lost. People don't read patch notes.

It's a pretty simple addition that clarifies an important mechanic for players in the field. Would love to see it added.

if you mean like in the death message it says in a different colour "Returning to the start you will lose : xxxxxexp and x levels" then i am for that idea

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Originally Posted by Soupa

It’s like you figured how to avoid tragedy by working with others.

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No, I didn't.
But it looks like some people still didn't get the point.

There should be an in-game warning about this. Not everyone reads the patch notes and not everyone remembers everything they read. It's a bad move to punish players for ressing themselves without telling them what it is and why.

I encountered players who thought it was a bug. It can easily look like a bug when there's no information attached to it.

I'm not surprised to see people against even the most benign of requests

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Originally Posted by LeoLupinos

Just no, it's really not necessary.
I died and returned once, that was enough to figure out whats happening. And now I'm Lv.11, without complaining about Eureka even 1 time.

And there's a clear instruction in the quests that you will lose xp after Lv 5.

Dieing Lv6 isn't that bad tho.

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Like, dude, you probably spent more time writing that message against this than the time the localization team would spend adding an extra line of text to the return pop-up.

Why not, as long as it only pops up during the release part, aka a chance to back out of releasing. Since I never release I don't care if it's there, I just have no desire to see another hand holding message like "are you sure you want to buy an item you can't use yet?" or the confusing switch aroo click, do you want to open this lockbox? Automatically on no by default...like no sorry i guess players really didn't want to open the lockbox?

Why do you want warning messages?

Eureka is heavily focused on hard grinding and death penalty and all the things attached, that is one kind of play style some people like to have and the game were missing until now. If you don't like grinding, don't like death penalty, and don't like deleveling, Eureka maybe isn't a part of the game you will like much.

XIV amazes me for the millions of different things you can do there, whatever your likes of a MMO are, here you can find the thing you can enjoy at its fullest. Never saw a MMO so much comprehensive as this. Eureka is clearly targeted to a given play style. Asking for the message haven't sense for the play style it is intended to have there. The fact your level and everything are separated from the rest of the game wasn't by accident.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

There should be an in-game warning about this. Not everyone reads the patch notes and not everyone remembers everything they read. It's a bad move to punish players for ressing themselves without telling them what it is and why.

I encountered players who thought it was a bug. It can easily look like a bug when there's no information attached to it.

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There is a NPC who you can ask about death penalty and other stuff around Eureka.

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Originally Posted by Felis

There is a NPC who you can ask about death penalty and other stuff around Eureka.

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That NPC can't tell you while you're dead how much XP it'll cost or if you will lose a level. The "release/wait" dialog box can.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

Why do you want warning messages?

Eureka is heavily focused on hard grinding and death penalty and all the things attached, that is one kind of play style some people like to have and the game were missing until now. If you don't like grinding, don't like death penalty, and don't like deleveling, Eureka maybe isn't a part of the game you will like much.

XIV amazes me for the millions of different things you can do there, whatever your likes of a MMO are, here you can find the thing you can enjoy at its fullest. Never saw a MMO so much comprehensive as this. Eureka is clearly targeted to a given play style. Asking for the message haven't sense for the play style it is intended to have there. The fact your level and everything are separated from the rest of the game wasn't by accident.

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It doesn't need to be a warning message. XIV has too many modal warning messages.

But it could be an addition to the existing dialog with the release button it that says "If you release, you will lose XXX XP and will drop 1 level." That's providing useful information without making the UI more cumbersome to use.

It doesn't take away anything from how Eureka works to tell people what's going to happen in a way that they'll see instead of asking them to guess.

Honestly, I knew you could lose exp after level 6 but I didn't know HOW MUCH. Didn't do my research.

I didn't think it would be THAT bad though, so when I died trying to help a little fella get their item thingy they pick up at level 5... I just decided to return rather than bother anyone else since no one was around. And then I lost basically ALL OF MY EXP that I had earned. :I

Felt bad. My fault though. But yeah, a warning on the amount would have been nice - not everyone reads all the patch notes and what not.