Prostitution in Eorzea

In light of the Little Ladies Day quest, I started thinking about this. We know there are npcs in Limsa and other places (I can only remember Ala Ghiri for now) that are working as prostitues. We also know Yotsuyu was forced to work at a brothel.

But how is prostitution viewed in Eorzea, and on Hydaelyn?

As many people pointed out in patch 4.2, Hiens reaction to one of his ninjas running a brothel was underwhelming. I for one would've also liked to see my character react or say something about it.

We see some quests touch upon it existing, but I'd like a side-quest or something where we could actually do something about it or something. I know we are busy saving the world and stuff, but if we can do quests fetching groceries to people I'd like some more quests touching upon this stuff too.

As i understand it, prostitution is a fairly common thing and an accepted part of life. Hien making an issue of it would be similar to him making an issue of a butcher or maid or any other normal occupation. Its simply not a big deal. As such, why would we have a quest to do something about it? Should we have quests to stop a cobbler from making shoes too?

In Eorzea prostitution appears to be at the very least accepted as Alien_Gamer mentioned, if not outright legal, especially in Ul'dah. In fact, in FFXIV version 1.0 an Ul'dah player was propositioned by a female miqo'te streetwalker the moment they got off the chocobo carriage, regardless of their gender (if you're a female character, she actually expressed disappointment that "you didn't have the coin" for her services), and the MNR's Guild was literally a glorified brothel, with it's interior filled with (again mostly miqo'te female) prostitutes lazing about on tables and making advances on the player.

In ARR however the MNR's Guild seems to have cleaned up it's act, kicking the prostitutes and erotic dancers out (the later now perform out in Sapphire Avenue Exchange) and the beginning for a player starting in Ul'dah is far more mundane and no longer has that sleazy undertone).

Funnily enough, prostitution seems to have moved elsewhere, in Limsa Lominsa for instance there is a group of prostitutes in ARR beckoning seductively to some sailors (who are clearly going to be taking them up on their offer), and some prostitutes trying to solicit themselves to a teenage boy at the Golden Bazaar (he mentions they gave him "crotchrot", presumably some kind of STD, insinuating he's used their services before), although these girls are midlander hyur and not miqote.

To say nothing of the FATE "Signed, Sealed and Undelivered" in Costa del Sol where the objective is to escort a prostitute (a female miqo'te in very revealing attire) to her next client, a wealthy businessman at Hidden Falls that Master Gerguju is trying to make a deal with and sent the prostitute to him to 'sweeten the deal' (completing the FATE the two quickly run into a nearby shed, clearly not wasting time, although she mentioned she "charges by the hour" so yeah, little wonder. ;)).

All this basically shows that prostitution is an accepted practice in Eorzea and is probably legal as a result.

Not that it adds terribly much to the conversation but most Eorzean city-states seem to send their local forces in to deal with the "unsavory" types; the organized crime types. Traffickers, slavers, etc. People who do a lot of brutal, obvious harm.

They definitely don't seem to care what consenting adults are selling or buying.

The bitter pill is that there's just not much sympathy for the people who go into such business because they lack options. There are prostitutes that life has dealt a bad hand, who don't want to be doing what they're doing, who aren't happy about it. That's just an unfortunate truth, an inevitability, for most of the world. So long as they're compensated and treated within certain thresholds it'd be hard to get anyone to do anything about it in an official capacity, and I'm sure some unsavory characters slip under the radar.

A lot of the girls Rowena takes in would be in positions like this. Rowena plays herself off as a brutal pragmatist who values only what's good for business, and if you only judge her by her actions, it's more or less true, but she knows if she shows an ounce of weakness she'll be eaten alive. Doesn't change the fact that she buys a lot of women out of debt, covers their overhead, and teaches them skills while they work it off. Every now and then you see a crack in her "What? No. These are my indentured servants." demeanor when she goes out of her way to manipulate a situation to incidentally benefit people who aren't technically of much use to her, but that she obviously cares about. (See: Having one of her girls arrange for Khloe and Zhloe to be stumbled across by that total sucker, the Warrior of Light).

People above have explained it in quite details that the practice is legal or at least tolerated in Hydaelyn; basically, just like prostitution is handled in real life.

Eorzea city states don't seem to have any legal law regarding prostitution as far as we know although Gridania seems to be relatively free of it or they're simply well hidden. The only place on Hydaelyn that arguably has legally allowed prostitution is Hingashi, as you can see an extravagant pleasure quarter in Kugane, which isn't surprising considering Hingashi is based on shogunate era of Japan.

"Stay away from those two. They given me the crotch rot."

Let's see if anyone can name and picture this NPC. xD

It's just some nameless Midlander male NPC in the Golden Bazaar. An adult, by the way. Doesn't use any of the child models, just one of the "younger" looking faces.

For the record, Crotch Rot is real and you may not want to google it, it isn't pretty research material.

Many characters make mention of prostitutes, and it does seem to be a fairly accepted practice in Eorzea and on Hydaelyn in general.

Many of the dancers in Ul'dah implicitly get by on prostitution as well. A few instances are scattered about Thanalan as well.
Gegejuru employs courtesans, and one of the lines from a "rough" female Roegadyn retainer is "So - sellin', buyin', drinkin' whorin'? What's it to be today?" There are also wenches in Limsa...
Prostitution doesn't seem to be terribly extant in Gridania.
There are prostitutes in Ala Ghiri, and during the protagonists' first (stealth) foray into the Ala Mhigan Quarter toward the Resonatorium, a couple of Garlean soldiers discuss one of them having hired a local prostitute last night. (Thought they had "comfort women" for that, but I digress...)
It's rather widespread and accepted in the East, with Kugane's Sanjo Hanamachi district being devoted to brothels and records of such establishments existing in Doma. (One SAM quest has the Warrior of Light protecting an important Hingan government official while he's in Kugane, ah, sampling its pleasures... and as everyone knows Yotsuyu used to be a slave at one such establishment.)

I mean... it makes sense when you consider the time period the game world is modeled after. Prostitution was legal up through the Renaissance; in fact it was one of the few ways single women could make a living. (See Ezio's Assassin's Creed games; courtesans are not looked down on and actually used as a resource, and his sister takes ownership of a brothel during Brotherhood.) It wasn't until religious reforms pushed for outlawing the practice that prostitution became looked down upon and, eventually, illegal. In the East it was common during the Sengoku era, which both Hingashi and Doma are modeled on.

The problem isn't really the prostitution itself, but the human trafficking that tends to fuel it, such as Yotsuyu's case. It's one thing to go into the profession either because you have no other options or of your own free will; it's another to be forced into it, either through being abducted or sold to a brothel. We do fight against human traffickers, and that practice does seem to be illegal and rejected by society, regardless of whether or not people get away with it.

Sengoku era would be the in-universe Age of Blood that's been mentioned once or twice, particularly during the SAM questline. Doma is based on Nara era Japan, Kugane is representative of the clash between Western and Japanese culture during the Meiji Restoration, and the rest of Hingashi is based upon the Edo era based on the available information.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

Sengoku era would be the in-universe Age of Blood that's been mentioned once or twice, particularly during the SAM questline. Doma is based on Nara era Japan, Kugane is representative of the clash between Western and Japanese culture during the Meiji Restoration, and the rest of Hingashi is based upon the Edo era based on the available information.

---

I stand corrected. You'll have to forgive me; Japanese history is... not my forté, to say the least.

SE hasn't confirmed it as far as I know, so it's little more than inference, but the shoe fits and such.

Only have to visit Limsa or Balmung to see that prostitution is alive and kicking in Eorzea :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

Sengoku era would be the in-universe Age of Blood that's been mentioned once or twice, particularly during the SAM questline. Doma is based on Nara era Japan, Kugane is representative of the clash between Western and Japanese culture during the Meiji Restoration, and the rest of Hingashi is based upon the Edo era based on the available information.

---

This is pedantic and off-topic, but I'm intrigued - what makes you place Kugane as Meiji, and not Edo like the rest of Hingashi? The country being closed save for a single southern port for trade with the rest of the world is pretty much in line with Edo-era Japan, and the setting lacks the more overt signifiers of the Meiji era (adoption of Western clothing, military reform and subsequent imperialist expansion, sword bans and elimination of the samurai, opening of the entire country to foreigners, etc).

Argument that Kugane's in line with the Edo period like the rest of Hingashi as their Dejima/Nagasaki would probably hold more merit to be frank, but Meiji was what came to mind when I made the comment. Might just be that I came to the wrong conclusion and/or be misremembering details, but it felt rather Westernised. Also the anti-foreigner sentiment, sparse as it was.

Actually, now that I think about it, I probably said Meiji because I recalled playing through the MSQ/SAM story and thinking to myself that I wouldn't be surprised to see a Boshin War type thing go on during 4.x.

All interesting answers, thank you. I had forgotten about the fate in Costal del Sol, and especially the whole thing with Rowena as well. I kinda suspected that'd be the case (it beeing accepted), but nice to get some confirmation.

I like that SE is willing to touch upon dark subjects like these, but I wish there was more to it than "prostitution exists and it's legal deal with it regardless of how you feel".

But also considering the time period, it is realistic so even if we don't I'm pretty okay with it as it is.

It might be legal in some areas but not others. Off the top of my head I can't think of any examples in Gridania or Ishgard so it may not be legal there. Even where prostitution and slavery are legal there seem to be laws regulating the practice. It's seems illegal to kidnap people and sell them, but proving that someone was kidnapped and not forcibly sold to pay their or their parent's debts may be difficult.

In Ala Ghiri you do a quest and two Miqo'te NPC are glad that the Garleans are gone. They remark how they didn't like servicing them, I don't remember all the details. In one of the MSQ, near the end of ARR story arc, you find out that one of the Immortal Flames had to resort to prostitution just to keep herself off the street. She didn't do it for fun, she had no other choice but to do that or basically die in the street starving. This might be one of those things where SE doesn't flat out saying it in order to keep the game rating at T. They make allusions, show dancers, but never show the act. It's all implied with the dirtiest thing being NPCs dancing and wearing suggestive clothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SicariusSeven

In Ala Ghiri you do a quest and two Miqo'te NPC are glad that the Garleans are gone. They remark how they didn't like servicing them, I don't remember all the details.

---

They called the Garleans "brutes", presumably referring to their treatment of prostitutes after obtaining their services. They then proceeded to advertise themselves for the Resistance (and the player character, regardless of gender), so they clearly intended to continue their line of work.

While the game does sort of touch on topics like imperialism, government corruption, and wealth inequality, it doesn't exactly go too heavily into it.

Be it prostitution or banditry, smaller scale topics aren't exactly discussed with bandits just being another encounter with no regard as why someone would turn to robbery to get by or in the case of prostitution, the women are little more than pieces of the scenery for the most part.

If I had to guess why attention isn't really brought to these topics, it's because they're quite complex and require more nuance than can be provided.

Banditry varies from region to region. In La Nosca, there isn't a lot of banditry based FATES (most FATEs are wild beast related), and the few that are specify that the bandits are pirates that have lost their pirate ships. I'd assume most La Noscian banditry happens on the water where we can't participate in FATEs. In Gridania, a lot of the bandits are people who don't want to follow the Elemental's laws in addition to those who are just normal bandits. Ul'dah seems to feature the most typical bandits of the lot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

Banditry varies from region to region. In La Nosca, there isn't a lot of banditry based FATES (most FATEs are wild beast related), and the few that are specify that the bandits are pirates that have lost their pirate ships. I'd assume most La Noscian banditry happens on the water where we can't participate in FATEs. In Gridania, a lot of the bandits are people who don't want to follow the Elemental's laws in addition to those who are just normal bandits. Ul'dah seems to feature the most typical bandits of the lot.

---

In Gridania I remember working with bandits in the South Shroud at the tavern. Some Bandits did come to your aid when you are following the Twin Adder that is spying for Gridania that later joins the Crystal Braves. The archer quests pre-bard also touch on this very much too, as defeating the lead bandit brings it to a conclusion and you find was the reason one of the guild elders was no longer in the military.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cilia

The problem isn't really the prostitution itself, but the human trafficking that tends to fuel it, such as Yotsuyu's case. It's one thing to go into the profession either because you have no other options or of your own free will; it's another to be forced into it, either through being abducted or sold to a brothel. We do fight against human traffickers, and that practice does seem to be illegal and rejected by society, regardless of whether or not people get away with it.

---

Aye, glad to see someone making that distinction. Human trafficking and forced slavery are introduced early in the game as early as the first dungeon Sastasha, again similar themes are brought up in the Arcanist questline. Leaving Limsa, one need only look to lore of Dark Knights to understand depravity some members of the Ishgardian clergy adhered to, to say nothing of what happened in false investigations carried out during Inquisitions, see the quest for entry to Dusk Vigil: For all the nights to come. Focusing on War crimes committed/ atrocities by both Garlemald and the Corpse Brigade (former Ala Mhigan royal army and personal butchers of the king of ruin), one can say the people of Gry Aabnia know all to well this disgusting and tragic distinction.

Prostitution chosen as an occupation is rarely done so willingly, but being kidnapped, sold, and held against ones will is a whole other abhorrent issue especially so when it involves children.

I for one think Hien was very much in the wrong, and it greatly lessened him in my eyes. Gosetsu was in the right to ask. "You speak of sins my lord, but at who'a feet do those sins lie?"

I haven’t seen much AGAINST prostitution within itself actually. Just against overall abuse that sometimes tied into it.

I do miss the 1.0 prostitutes though. They had no problem letting people know they ran a legit prostitute ring, pimp and all in the miners guild.

I do like though they never went out of hand with it, the only thing kind of going a little too flirty being the 1.0 companion. That cat girl slept with ALOT of beastmen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cilia

The problem isn't really the prostitution itself, but the human trafficking that tends to fuel it, such as Yotsuyu's case. It's one thing to go into the profession either because you have no other options or of your own free will; it's another to be forced into it, either through being abducted or sold to a brothel. We do fight against human traffickers, and that practice does seem to be illegal and rejected by society, regardless of whether or not people get away with it.

---

There's a slight cultural/historical dissonance going on here in that prostitution didn't carry the same stigma in Historical Japan that it did in Historical Europe and a daughter going into the sex trade to pay a family's debts was seen as a filial sacrifice and actually somewhat respectable. If she managed to pay off the debt she could transition into the "normal" life of a wife and mother without much issue.

Her family selling Yotsuyu to a brothel wasn't that much worse than their earlier act of selling her into a very young marriage to an abusive spouse.

You can find the same girls as the one you find in Ala Ghiri in Lower La Noscea, behind the building at 20.9, 29.5
A roe is actually negociating some business with them.

In satasha, in the storage rooms where nobody ever goes, if you come close enough to some miqotes, they will say something about losing all their dignity...

And of course, we all have escorted that miqote girl in Costa del Sol fate...

How do I even end up in such shady places...?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alacran

Prostitution chosen as an occupation is rarely done so willingly, but being kidnapped, sold, and held against ones will is a whole other abhorrent issue especially so when it involves children.

---

I agree on the latter point, but some women did choose to be prostitutes during certain time periods. While this isn't reflected on Hydaelyn, oftentimes single women had little choice but to be a prostitute or a nun in the approximate equivalent real-world time period. Hydaelyn is very gender-equal compared to what the real world was like - craftswomen and female soldiers abound - but it wasn't like that in the real world. Patriarchy was real back then, not the silly issues people complain about these days... but I digress.

Point is, unmarried women often did enter sex work before prostitution was outlawed, since it was the one of the few ways they could support themselves, and sex workers weren't looked down upon until religious reforms pushed for its outlawing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Alacran

I for one think Hien was very much in the wrong, and it greatly lessened him in my eyes. Gosetsu was in the right to ask. "You speak of sins my lord, but at who'a feet do those sins lie?"

---

As I recall the context of that was more or less Gosetsu using flowery language to persuade Hien not to kill [Yo]Tsuyu by telling him the soldiers who carried out her orders are just as guilty as she. You raise a valid point, but that's an inherent flaw of collectivist cultures - the needs and desires of the individual are set aside in favor of the needs and desires of the collective (family, community, country, etc).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FJerome

Her family selling Yotsuyu to a brothel wasn't that much worse than their earlier act of selling her into a very young marriage to an abusive spouse.

---

The ultimate problem with that is that is still made a monster - one whose trauma and reason for being can be sympathized with, but who needed to be stopped all the same. As long as cultural practices like that exist, Doma will simply remain a breeding ground for the next Yotsuyu, waiting for an opportunity to seize power and rain down their revenge because its culture dehumanized them.

Now I'm not saying that Doma is at fault for Yotsuyu - that's mostly her family - or that individualism is strictly better than collectivism - it comes with its own host of problems one need look no further than Ul'dah to see, but had someone simply asked Yotsuyu what she wanted... perhaps that tragedy could have been avoided. But, y'know... patriarchy, the real kind, and cultural stuff. What's done is done, and it just needs to be learned from.

While I think that it's stretching things to say that prostitution is something that no woman would engage in willingly in Eorzea, it does seem to be the case that it's considered a profession that is "beneath" a proper young lady. The prostitutes you actually talk to in the game seem, generally, to be fine with their line of work; they do not seem to be ashamed of what they do for a living, or wish they were doing something else. On the other hand, many quests allude to women who have barely escaped prostitution, painting it as some kind of dire fate worse than death.

The same kind of split in attitudes exists in real life. I've interacted with woman who've actually reminisced fondly of their days as prostitutes, who considered it to have been a positive experience. At the same time, it's considered to be a "dirty" profession, to the point that it's actually illegal; no parent wants their daughter (or son, for that matter) to become a prostitute. Unfortunately, making it illegal doesn't stop it from happening, but it does encourage human trafficking to keep the brothels full, and it does discourage prostitutes from seeking legal protection when they encounter dangerous or unpleasant clients.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

While I think that it's stretching things to say that prostitution is something that no woman would engage in willingly in Eorzea, it does seem to be the case that it's considered a profession that is "beneath" a proper young lady. The prostitutes you actually talk to in the game seem, generally, to be fine with their line of work; they do not seem to be ashamed of what they do for a living, or wish they were doing something else. On the other hand, many quests allude to women who have barely escaped prostitution, painting it as some kind of dire fate worse than death.

---

Naturally... nobody wants their child to grow up to be a prostitute, and it's not likely something to aspire to even in Eorzea. That said, it does seem to be legal, and there's no shame in doing what you have to in order to survive. Those who choose to be prostitutes... well, that's their choice, but those who barely escape it are likely would-be victims of human trafficking.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

The same kind of split in attitudes exists in real life. I've interacted with woman who've actually reminisced fondly of their days as prostitutes, who considered it to have been a positive experience. At the same time, it's considered to be a "dirty" profession, to the point that it's actually illegal; no parent wants their daughter (or son, for that matter) to become a prostitute. Unfortunately, making it illegal doesn't stop it from happening, but it does encourage human trafficking to keep the brothels full, and it does discourage prostitutes from seeking legal protection when they encounter dangerous or unpleasant clients.

---

In all fairness, prostitution does tend to be a dirty profession. Due to the nature of their work prostitutes can easily become vectors for venereal diseases; this is the most likely reason why attitudes toward prostitution shifted in Europe towards disfavor and disrepute (everyone remembers the excellent works of art that came out of the Renaissance, but nobody ever brings up the syphilis zombies that wandered the streets) until it became illegal. Making something illegal doesn't stop it from happening, but (not to be cold) legal protection is something people forfeit when engaging in illegal activities. Drug dealers will be arrested for dealing drugs if they call in that they were shot during a deal, for instance. Lawbreaking is risky business.

Human trafficking would likely still be around even if prostitution were legal. From a business standpoint it's always better to get something for free or will return its investment in dividends, and there will always be people willing to take advantage of others.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nekohime1138

It might be legal in some areas but not others. Off the top of my head I can't think of any examples in Gridania or Ishgard so it may not be legal there. Even where prostitution and slavery are legal there seem to be laws regulating the practice. It's seems illegal to kidnap people and sell them, but proving that someone was kidnapped and not forcibly sold to pay their or their parent's debts may be difficult.

---

Right. The impression I get is that it exists in some places in Eorzea, particularly the relatively lawless Limsa Lominsa and the corrupt and exploitative Ul'dah. If there's anything limiting it in Limsa, it's probably that human trafficking and slavery occur in the underworld instead. Still, with Limsa making some effort to clean up its act, circumstances may be improving. As for Ul'dah... well, we've seen erotic entertainment there, and indeed some problems resulting thereform. Ul'dah is sufficiently amoral when it comes to money that it's easy to imagine Ul'dahn brothels, though from what we've seen directly, they may be considered inappropriate for the upper class.

There are no signs of anything of the sort in Gridania, which would fit with Gridania's portrayal as probably the 'nicest' of the core three city-states, and as for Ishgard, it seems extremely unlikely to be legal there. There's structural sexual abuse in Ishgard - we've seen enough in the way of nobles' bastards to indicate that - but I suspect that actual prostitution, in the form of currency directly exchanged for sex, would be limited to the poorest classes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UAnchovy

There's structural sexual abuse in Ishgard - we've seen enough in the way of nobles' bastards to indicate that - but I suspect that actual prostitution, in the form of currency directly exchanged for sex, would be limited to the poorest classes.

---

Pretty much. There is a bit of NPC dialogue near the Brume where one NPC is utterly scandalized by the suggestion that he ever intended to procure the services of a prostitute in the Brume, but phrased in a way that suggests he was probably planning to do exactly that anyway.

So if it happens, it's not spoken of in polite company.