Extreme trials too easy?

Is it just me, or has extreme trials become too easy? Lakshimi and Byakko are extremely easy and can be pretty much pugged blind. Not only do they have pretty easy mechanics that do not really require any teamplay (expect maybe "you stand there and I stand here") but the punishment for making mistakes is really low and it doesnt really matter if your dps manage to die when the enrage timer is so long to begin with.

It was different with 2.x primals and especially 3.x primals (Sephirot and Thordan Especially), now the only thing that even comes close but is still easier is Susano ex.

I feel pretty disappointed by this as extreme primals have always been the hardest content for me since I don't run savage raids and it feels like there are no challenge, we need something like sephirot and titan again.

Lakshimi, Susano and Byakko have all been much easier (The first 2 were almost a joke). You bring up a good point in that fights are not like they used to be like encounters with Thordan as example.
Or back in the day doing Relic with Bard in myth gear (ilv 90) or less and using vitality food to "maybe" survive titan's stomps

Garuda Ex synced is still more hard than susano ex. If everybody do the mechanics of course. But I liked more the dynamic of susy fight makes it more funny. The sb trials are really more funny I think. Of course that after you learn the fights everything becomes funny too.

While Lakshmi, Susano'o, and Byakko ain't the toughest EX primals, underestimating them is the last thing you want to do in PUGs, especially in groups that have low dps and/or have the tendency to flub mechanics often.

Shinryu may not be as hard as Thordan EX was at launch, but most people still struggle with that fight too. Most don't even get to the add phase.

^ This. They're not so hard, but go in with average PUGs you never know...

+ The number of Shinryu farms that actually end up being P1 mayhem fests is beyond me...

I wonder what all those people would have done on Thordan or Sephiroth P3. Extremes have just that in the name, but are only glorified, cool boss fights now.

Because back then they were thought out as a step between normal raids and savage raids. They still are, but since Savage level dropped a bit, you feel like Extremes are more accessible (I mean killing 3 out of 4 primals in the first 1 or 2 hours never happened back then)

To the author : you said you are not used to it but you might consider starting Savage content. Omega (deltascape and sigmascape) is really accessible (more like Creator Level than Gordias Level) so you might find that "in between" difficulty you're looking for.

While they might be easy in comparison to other past trials (at their time of release of course), they can still be challenging if going with pugs or a static of people who are new to high-end content.


With Byakko it seemed like SE wasn't necessarily going for super high difficulty, but rather as a warm up (still difficult but not as difficult) for savage.
There are people who took well over a week (if not more) to beat Byakko. There are people who've hit enrage and failed multiple times.
A group that is having trouble with Byakko's mechanics will most likely not be able to do o5s.

Having various difficulties available is important to let newer high-end players realize they need to git gud.

<- part of a static full of newer high-end players (only 2 have done savage before) that had difficulty with Byakko.

i have been in so many "farm" parties that cannot complete Byakko EX it's ridiculous. PF is a nightmare/crap shoot of wondering whether or not this party or that party will actually clear it.

Well let's just say that Titan EX with the skill of a current good player and respawning your body at the center of the arena after a fall wouldn't be as memorable as back in the days

if it's to easy go run some savage other ppl don't have the luxury to wait forever to find the perfect party or to try and make a static that will work. it's ff14 not ff11

by the way it's just you

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Onibocho

by the way it's just you

---

It's not only not just them, this is really old news. Pretty much every new "extreme" since Sephirot has been something you learn in a run or 2, from scratch to finish. And even Sephirot was a big step down from Thordan, but was still acceptable. Only saving grace is that Susano/Lakshmi occupied the same role as Ravana/Bismarck so they weren't really supposed to be hard, and we've only had 2 trials since then. And Shinryu, while still having a really small learning curve, was at least interesting.

I guess it depends on person. For me some of new ex primals are on the borderline hard / next-to-impossible. Lakshmi was just right difficulty. Susano was hard, but still passable. Now Shinryu and Byako feels like content for savage players... Not only you need to know tactics, but you also need to have very high gear and play nearly flawlessly to be able to beat them. How is that easy...?

I haven't touched a primal I was not forced to in a msq since I got all the ponies way back. I always have to pug and it's not worth the agro.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fumofu

I guess it depends on person. For me some of new ex primals are on the borderline hard / next-to-impossible. Lakshmi was just right difficulty. Susano was hard, but still passable. Now Shinryu and Byako feels like content for savage players... Not only you need to know tactics, but you also need to have very high gear and play nearly flawlessly to be able to beat them. How is that easy...?

---

Whoa. I think you got the wrong idea here. It's called "extreme", so you should need tactic and skill to have it down. When we call it easy, we're calling out the fact the learning curve shrank and you can get all of Byakko's tactic in less than 2 hours and kill it. That was not the case before. I spent more time on Thordan than on some Savage levels. What we're asking is for it to live up to the name. It's ok if it's not downed by everyone. Shouldn't be. Not everyone want, not everyone can, and that's ok.

When it just came out, susano did give pugs some trouble : I had quite a few failed pug before finding a pug good enough to actually farm him. Lakshmi... yea she was easy.
But today, everybody know those fights, so it's likely that it can be cleared by any pug now.
This is from my casual/low-core player pov ;)

Difficulty is really hard to balanced, since it is very subjective, as fumofu was saying.
Remember when Yoship facepalmed at us ?
You guys said raid-floor-A was too hard, so we made raid-floor-B easier - and now you're saying it's too easy ?!!!
or something along those lines while talking, I think it was about alexander...?

"This thing I did when the game first came out and I had X years of experience in this style of game was harder than this thing I do now when I have X+4 years of experience in this kind of game.

It's not my experience that is the point but the fact that the extreme trials are now objectively easier. This is not an opinion, just compare byakko and sephirot and count the mechanics and what they entailed. They are not even close.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Samsta

It's not my experience that is the point but the fact that the extreme trials are now objectively easier. This is not an opinion, just compare byakko and sephirot and count the mechanics and what they entailed. They are not even close.

---

I find that true. it's not just experience. The thing is : in SB, most Primals, you can just react to what you're seeing and be ok. Have one guy who cleared it with you calling and you're even done in only one timer.

On previous ones (or Shinryu) you couldn't just react : you had to understand. I'd very much like to see a group with only one with the kill acting as a caller, the rest discovering the fight, not having set foot in it once, all under gear requirement, kill Thordan or Sephiroth in only on timer like you can on Lakshmi, Susanoo and Byakko. Hint : won't be happening, count more like 6 to 10 hours.

So there is some objectivity to that claim, not just perception. Although as Kabooa said, there is also that, it's not all there is.

@Moogly : yes he said that about Alexander, and he was right about the difficulty to satisfy. But we were talking Savage. And they did make them more accessible since creator.
No one asked them to apply same potion to Primals though. That's a bit boggling, but you can find that old Ex Prime difficulty on nowadays savage floors so I'd tell OP to go for it.